Project Appleseed

Bezon Company,

quote from mac66 "Absolutely NOT use a black powder substitute like Pyrodex"


I think I said that in my very first post or two back in Oct 2011!
Gent's, Listen to us "old hats" @ this peculiar game!...........(charcoal puffers)

enjoy the toys

wohdoh nah
your most humble and obedient servent
Pvt Doyle 11th Virginia (Morgan's rifle company)

Re: flint

Flint should strike the frizzen 2/3 min to 3/4 way UP frizzen from the pan.
at a 60 degree angle.......by adjusting flint (for beginniers)....you have 4 different sides to each flint, depending upon how you install. (knaping flint and/or frizzen adjustment (timing)for advanced)


Re: fouling
Large sized powder granuals will produce more fouling. (incomplete/un-uniform burn rate)
My suggestion was and still is use 3F..........(better,more constisant (uniform)burn....less fouling

or purchace "goex reenactor powder"-(cheap)and using a wooden dowel grind your own.

I've asked a couple times over the years, no one with first hand knowledge has popped up yet....

Anyone who makes their own BP ever try making WHITE powder?  This is BP without the sulphur.  Supposedly makes MUCH less smoke and fouling than normal BP, trade-off is more difficult ignition.  Would need normal priming BP in the pan for a flintlock, could use white powder in the bore.

See here:     http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/recipe.html

(Specifically, the graph at about the middle of the page, comparing various percentages of ingredients to energy content.)

I don't have the opportunity to try this, but would LOVE to hear from someone who does...

SoM

Bezon SOM,  *tips hat*...My lady

I have made BP many times, and I know of the "white" powder of which you speak, yet have not used it. All folks and all campfires that I have been involved with, the substance has come up in conversations, but not with a good out come. Here's why, A colonial was quite fugal, and carried only what he needed, nothing more! if the item did not serve 1/2 a dozen uses it did not go alone for the ride (so to speak). also rarely did he carry two types of granules, let alone types of powder.

To control fouling is a matter of granule size, and packing of charge, to yield a complete, uniform burn.
I shoot a rifle more then my smoothie (both .62 cal/20 gauge) and I can load and fire without fouling issues all day long, saying that, blanks only is messy business do to fouling, (usually not a packed charge/also no ball to hold powder for longer burn). My loads are not "Overly" tight, yet also not loose (fall into the barrel) its kind of a trail n error adventure! to find your ball/patch combo that works for your rifle. With that said your type of patch "lube" can factor into fouling as well. (I use only natural ones / favorite is mink oil) And I can shoot to 200yd with a great deal of precision,... farther with an adjusted load.

does that help steer you?......sorry but I don't use the "white stuff"and most likely wont ever
(40+ of BP)

wohdoh nah
your most humble and obident servant   *cough*
Pvt Doyle 11Th Virginia

Well, I finally found the time to proof the old girl.  Since I've not yet totally figured out how to get the flint to consistently strike sparks, I took the easy way out and used 6" of cannon fuze to touch her off.  I first did it with 80 grains of 2F with a single .715 ball.  BOOM !!! , with no adverse results.  Next time I upped the charge to 160 grains of 2F and a single ball.  REALLY BIG BOOM !!!!!!.  Again, no adverse results except that the  recoil kicked her out of the sand bags I had used to support her. 

Next I shot her from my shoulder (using 80 grains 2F) -- really tough to get a sight picture because of the straightness of the stock.  Misfire first time, but she went off on the second attempt.  Subsequent attempts produced no spark -- had to "unload" her via cannon fuze.

After cleaning her up at home, I devoted my attention to why no spark.  Figured out the flint was not sharp enough -- ended up reversing the flint (end to end) and finally was able to get lots of spark.  WOW!  I'm ready to go back and let 'er rip. 

Thanks to all for the good advise and helpful comments. 

Dick

Cool Dick...Then you had to smell the stinking thing all the way home and a hour plus cleaning her up! LOL I used mine the other day in a hunter safety class, turn the lights off in the room and the shower of sparks leaves an impression! ...O.L.

Bezon Gentlemen,

From time to time the trip (locked into the car/truck) can be over powering and odoriferous!

yet it should only take 20mins to clean the rifle!.......how are you doing it?

my list of items: tooth pick/feather, warm/hot water, soap, jag, brush, patches.......sweet oil (olive)
and mink oil.............and a rag

I'm enjoying the stories of success! thanks for sharing.......be forewarned!....they (muskets) can be addicting......and they are female.....watch for the evil, hexing, dirty looks between the women folk!
as you spend more time with them!.......bad juju....

noted that you used "cannon fuse".......I carry a small bundle of "Lucifer sticks" (matches).....I've only use once, and it wasn't even mine!.....twas Bob210s Bessie.......good to carry though

Oh I'm slow! LOL Same as any ML, hot hot water and all the goodies you mention, haven't used mink oil however. Caution to anyone wearing silver jewlery, wet BP residue has odd chemical reactions to it!  ...O.L.

Actually I'm pretty used to cleaning up BP.  Although flinters are new to me, I've been actively skirmishing with the N-SSA for about 12 years now, and currently shoot musket, carbine and revolver events.  Revolvers are the worst 'cause it's like having to clean 6 separate guns. 

I use a home-made BP solvent made up of wood alcohol ( the Irish gets saved for medicinal purposes only    ), Murphy's soap, hydrogen peroxide and water.  Does a great job and quickly cuts the carbon and other BP by products.  If anyone wants to know more, I'll post the "formula".  Only downside, is that if you have a cut, it can sting like the devil -- thus the need for the "medicinal" Irish  . 

Another thought is that I've hand made a strap type cartridge box for the Bess, and just made a belt frog to hold the bayonet and a tomahawk.  The plans are about 30 - 40 years old and came from an old RW reenactor I know.  If anyone has interest I'll try to post pictures, and will share the plans.  Personally, I think both came out looking pretty authentic. 

Dick

Good info everybody, keep it coming.   I met with the director of the fife and drum corps this week.  He as a British sergeant's sword from the RW and a drum from 1812. Gave me chills just to hold them.  He had 5 or 6 muskets.

Anyway, he suggested putting a pan guard on the musket to prevent side blast. His were brass.  Also a leather frizzen cover to prevent unwanted strikes.   Both good ideas and I am in the process of making both.

Picked up some black powder the other day at Gander Mountain which is the only place  could find it and have an order in for a sling and other accoutrements.   

Could someone who drilled the touch hole in their musket post a photo of where you did it.  I measured how forward the breach plug is and it looks to be a good half inch or so past the pan. I am not sure where or how to drill the hole now.

I doubt the way these were manufactured what I did to mine doesn't mean squat with yours. I drilled mine in the center of the pan but had to do so at a 20-30 degree angle. Use a rod and accurately mark how deep the plug is then transfer that to the outside and see what you've got. If the end of the plug is 1/2 forward of the pan, that's bad news. If it's 1/2" behind, no big deal, drill away. Mine was about dead even with the center of the pan requireing the hole to be drilled at a slight forward angle....O.L.

Mac -- I don't have a photo but I think I can describe where to drill pretty well.  First, I used the ramrod to measure where the end of the breech plug is relative to the end of the barrel.  Then I marked that distance on the outside of the barrel relative to the frizzen pan.  As best I recall the end of the breech plug was about 3/8" from the center of the frizzen pan (closer to the muzzle). 

I then used a center punch to mark the barrel at a point about 3/32" to the right of the center of the frizzen pan, and near the bottom (lowest point) of the frizzen pan.  Then I drilled my flash hole at about a 20 degree angle toward the muzzle.  The drill exited the breech plug just about center.

I then used a dremel to slightly egg out the frizzen pan toward the center of the flash hole.  When I was done, the flash hole was pretty much centered (vertically) on the frizzen pan with the bottom of the flash hole level with the bottom of the frizzen pan.  When you're done the frizzen pan should be polished to minimize any holding of moisture.

Another point I just learned is that different from percussion black powder muskets, you should NOT tamp the ball/wadding solidly against the black powder charge.  Just use the ramrod to seat the ball/wadding gently against the black powder.  Then, use a wire pick through the flash hole to try to create a channel or loose cavity in the powder charge.  Apparently this allows the flash from the frizzen pan to ignite the main charge in the barrel more easily.   Works for me, anyway.

If you still want a picture, send me a pm with your email address.  Good luck.

Dick

You guys have almost given me enough courage to start drilling.

Well I did it. I drilled the flash hole. I measured it, then marked it and broke 3 drill bits trying to drill it.  The breech plug was a good half inch in front of the pan. I tried to drill at angle but kept breaking bits. I finally drilled a little larger hole straight in a about a quarter inch and then drilled at an angle forward from that. Looks like heck but should work.

I also made a frizzen stall (cover) out of leather. Apparently it is a good idea to keep the hammer from striking the frizzen inadvertently.  I also made a pan guard. Basically a piece of brass that attached to the side of the pan that prevent side blast if you are standing next to the left of someone. I used a brass case from a 44 mag. Just eyeballed a picture of one online, cut open the 44 mag brass, shaped it, used the frizzen screw to hold it on. Both of those were recommended by my Fife and Drum Corps buddy. Both look kinda crude but are cheap and look like some field expedient fix which is ok.

Off to the store to buy some BP, waiting on some flints and a pick/tool I ordered.

"waiting on some flints and a pick/tool I ordered. "

The pick tool will be a waste of $$$ but good for show and tell, drilled at an angle it won't work. I used a piece of 1/16" music wire bent at a workable angle, only historic from the standpoint of improvise, adapt, and overcome! ....O.L.

Quote from: oladcock on February 20, 2012, 03:42:09 PM
"waiting on some flints and a pick/tool I ordered. "

The pick tool will be a waste of $$$ but good for show and tell, drilled at an angle it won't work. I used a piece of 1/16" music wire bent at a workable angle, only historic from the standpoint of improvise, adapt, and overcome! ....O.L.

Well you know the addiction. Have to have the tools to show. Have to have a possibles bag, then a haversack, to hang with the musket over the fireplace. Then maybe a cartridge box, powder measure, powder horn, priming horn, maybe a loading board to cover all the bases. Did I forget the bayonet frog? Oh, of course you need a bullet mold, ladle etc. Then maybe a patch knife. Pretty soon you're dressing up like Halloween.     

OK guys.... how are you carrying your Brown Bess around?  Mine is getting a little tired of the beach towel...

Has anyone found a suitable bag for it?

Quote from: Chainsaw on May 10, 2012, 01:24:28 PM
OK guys.... how are you carrying your Brown Bess around?  Mine is getting a little tired of the beach towel...

Has anyone found a suitable bag for it?

I use two gun socks. I put the butt in first as far as it will go and then the other sock on the muzzle. Fold the floppy part left from the butt over and then tie off the on from the muzzle end.  I am thinking of having my wife or daughter sew me up something that fits however. Can't decide what material to use.