30 Caliber Rule, Scoring Gauge $8-$15ea + shipping (Still Available)

[Nightpoison]

i don't have a current inventory count, but these are still available.

48 38 34 Brass Gauges @$10ea
29 14 Titanium Gauges @ $15ea
28 23 Misfit Brass Gauges @ $8ea
9 Misfit Titanium Gauges @ $12ea

The difference between the regular and the misfit gauges is just the length. The regular gauges will be roughly 1.48" overall, with a .5" section at the ~.223 diameter. The misfit gauges will vary in length. Some of them will be less than 1" overall, I even have one gauge where the ~.223 section is .6" long and the ~.308 section is less than ~.25". But most of the gauges are longer than 1".

Accuracy is all within 1k^th of the target diameters of .223" and .308"

ORIGINAL POST:

Hello

Hello, my name is Michael, an Appleseed participant out of New Hampshire and a recent Instructor in Training volunteer. I've attended three events thus far, over the past two years, and have at least three more this year alone. I've had a great time, learned a lot, and enjoyed every minute of history Appleseed offers.

While I am not a machinist by trade, I do have access to a machine shop and have enough basic knowledge to get things done. I've knocked out a small batch of 30 Caliber Accuracy Gauges for the instructors. This is not a business. I have no intention of going into full manufacturing for these. At this point, the ~60 I have made is all that I currently have. If these sell and there is enough interest for more, I would consider making more to help get these in the hands of more instructors.

Accuracy on all gauges is within a 1k^th of the target diameters of .223" and .308". However, the worst one I currently have I believe is .30740" in diameter. The majority of them are much closer to the target.

What I would like to do is get these pieces out in the hands of any who is interested in one. I was limiting these to instructors at first, as I thought the need might be there. But I have only been approached by a small number of people thus far. So anyone that wants one or more, please let me know. What I would like to ask, is $10 for each gauge. Shipping will be quoted as soon as I get your shipping information. Generally, it will be ~$8 for UPS ground. The $10 covers the cost of materials and tooling I needed to buy to make these.

There is no limit on how many you want to buy.

I would prefer cash or money orders, but if you want to send a check, Venmo, or PayPal, I will do that as well. The buyer will be responsible for all fees associated with Venmo or PayPal.

Contact me with your address, quantity, and payment method. I'll reply with a total price including shipping. All prices will be rounded up to the nearest whole dollar to cover the cost of shipping materials.

If these pieces sell through, keep posting your interest. I would like to get an idea of how many more I would need to make.

photos at this link
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ak_Up0H34vXskMoGEo7FTJFQvxXLDg?e=SiClAo[/url]

[300berg]

This gauge is really well made and works great on a lanyard or beltloop. 

I was happy I had it at the target line and shooters could quickly see what was
close enough.  It impressed them with how "prepared" the instructor corps is.

[Oz]

History has shown I am at my most obtuse at 10:29 a.m. so I'll apologize for that.  I wanted to be sure how this works.  I think I am understanding that the smaller diameter portion is .223 +/- .001 and therefore fits neatly in a .22 hole, and the larger diameter is .308 +/- .001 so carefully inserting the small diameter will tend to self-center in the hole and gently running the gauge up so the step is flush to the paper will let the larger diameter gauge show whether it touches the scoring ring with a .30 cal rule.  With a bit of a bonus in that it does not gouge the bejabbers out of the original hole in the way using a .30 bullet does.  Am I tracking or do I need stronger coffee?

Thank you!  Oz

[Luigi]

I got to use one of the initial batch that Michael made, at our recent Littleton, NH shoot.  Worked like a charm. Very accurate as measured by my Mitutoyo micrometer, and a great upgrade from my loose bullet approach. Would heartily recommend. Definitely adds an element of professionalism as 300berg noted.

Thank you Michael for stepping up on behalf of Project Appleseed, Huzzah!

Luigi

[Luigi]

to Oz: yes,you have it exactly right as you described.  What brand of coffee do you use, it seems to work just fine for you

Luigi

[Oz]

to Oz: yes,you have it exactly right as you described.  What brand of coffee do you use, it seems to work just fine for you

Luigi

Cool, thank you! 

Costco coffee, it's cheap and the cans are bigger so I don't have to go down the basement to fetch a new one as often.   (Because once I'm down there, who knows just what will distract me!)

Thank you again!

[Big John]

I got a group of these for my local crew and it works great from use at a shoot two weeks ago. Highly recommend. I need to tie a lanyard to mine.

[Nightpoison]

Big John,

Thank you for the review. I'm glad you are liking them.

I am running low at this point, so please reach out to secure an order.

Michael

[Oz]

I got to try mine out at an event this weekend.  I was impressed with how it self-centered, made a clean .22 caliber hole, and gave a clear visual indication of .30.  Nice.  Thank you! 

[Nightpoison]

OZ,

Thank you for the feedback, much appreciated. Glad you found the gauges useful!

[Nightpoison]

Hi everyone. Almost out, last 13 pieces remain. 

[Burnett]

I bought some of these and they work REALLY well. 
Support a fellow Appleseeder and buy some. 

[JMynes]

At the last Appleseed I attended I found myself continually borrowing one from @300berg
It works really well, better than shoving a .30 cal bullet into the hole.
I guess it's time I had one of my own.
PM sent.

[ITB]

Just asking on a personal level - never mind all that stuff under my name.  Do folks regularly use the 30-cal rule when scoring rimfire 25m AQTs?  Am I being a hard ass for not doing that at my events?

Only time I *might* do it is if I'm looking for an extra point or two on a 208 or 209 score on a shooter to whom I want to offer a hat.

[JMynes]

If it's "eyeball close" then I measure it. I want to give the shooter every point he earned.
Many times a young shooter wants an obviously not 210 target scored. I encourage him/her to score it himself, and if it's 200 or better I'll double check his work.

[300berg]

My experience as a shooter was that it was widely used, so my mindset didn't change when I became an instructor.

A key point of the gauge is that it does not deform the .22 hole.  After seeing someone have a target with 229 (he wanted distinguished iron's)
get passed around and multiple 30cals inserted who knew what the original shot was.  Target was wrecked.  It would also have been easy to objectively
insert the gauge and say: "Look, a miss."

The rule seems to be motivational for certain types of shooters, mostly among the first or second AS shooters.  After that point, they know what their target is about.

Question back to you, ITB: Do you have your shooters have every target scored?

In general we phrase (here in much of north east), "If you'd like your target scored..."

But I was at a pistol clinic where phrase was, "Hand your target to (name) and get it scored."  When it was my turn it was obvious that almost none would be close,but I went through the motions...

[ITB]

I think my question wasn't clear enough.  Do people regularly score AQTs using the 30-cal rule?

[Nightpoison]

Hi, ITB. to answer your question. I believe, at least in the Northeast, it does appear to be standard practice. I've attended shoots in both New Hampshire and Massachusetts, both used the 30 caliber rule. I know another shooter, that has attended NY, CT, and ME and it seems that it's what's used there as well. Not knowing firsthand, I can't speak with certainty.


To add, I've sold gauges to TX, UT, NM, VA, MI, IN, IA, and OH. So it appears it's used elsewhere, I don't know to what extent. And there is one other Senior  Master Instructor who has one of my gauges. Not sure the weight of that, but just to give you an idea.

[JMynes]

I think my question wasn't clear enough.  Do people regularly score AQTs using the 30-cal rule?

In Maine it is standard procedure to use the .30 cal rule

[ScubaSteve]

I just cant resist answering the question "Are you being a hard A** for not using the 30 cal rule.    Well Yes in my opinion.     (Oooo that was fun to say)      Dont take offence, you did ask!


Thoughts.
The 30 cal rule was implemented for a reason. I think I know it but I could be wrong. In Fl most shootbosses use it if we are shooting at a full 25M. There are a few ranges where we only get 25 Yards and then the 30 cal rule is removed.  Once you are an instructor, no more 30 cal rule. No 30 cal rule for distinguished or 250 patches either.  You want a 30cal rule for that use a 30 cal.

I think it is important to remember our goal has little to do with making rifleman. Its getting people to the line to learn and hear the stories of the founders. I wont give away a rifleman's patch, but I try to give one to everybody I can because it makes them feel good and they come back with friends. The 30 cal rule lets me give out a small amount more of patches so a small amount of people are more happy and come back.

Steve

Just asking on a personal level - never mind all that stuff under my name.  Do folks regularly use the 30-cal rule when scoring rimfire 25m AQTs?  Am I being a hard ass for not doing that at my events?

Only time I *might* do it is if I'm looking for an extra point or two on a 208 or 209 score on a shooter to whom I want to offer a hat.

[Captain]

The 30 Cal Rule

Disclaimer: just putting this out there for discussion . . . . you do you

Am I being a hard ass for not doing that at my events?

Hypothetical question. "Am I being a hard ass because I don't count line breaks?" or "I don't count 3s on the first stage because the target is too easy?" or . . . a hundred other variations . . .

The AQT is a standard to measure performance against. It becomes less valuable if every score requires an explanation i.e. done at so and so's event without the 30 cal rule. I score every AQT the same. If it's an instructor, they probably don't need me to score it unless they want a confirmation for a new Personal Record or reaching some milestone such as 210, 240 or 250 (or if they're math challenged ). And I score it against the standard using the 30 cal rule. The shooter can always attach their own *** shot with irons, shot with a bolt action, shot with centerfire, shot on a RFAQT, etc. And there's still an infinite combination that could be used to challenge the shooter (how about the 40V AQT, or a 250 KD AQT or the AQT with a single shot rifle).

It's also fun to work together going over the AQT and looking at the groups and building connections with the shooters - cheering together when we find a "30 cal 5" or commiserating when it just doesn't make it. It can be a small fun part of the event.

As for instructors shooting, or a shooter after their first Rifleman score or someone trying for distinguished, I'm not trying to be the gatekeeper. A shooter or instructor who comes out and shoots a 230 AQT with irons . . . against the standard has earned the Distinguished rocker.

In our mission to save the country by making a nation of Rifleman, the marksmanship goal of a Rifleman is mastery of the Rifleman's Quarter Mile. The 25m achievements build the fun, interest and camaraderie to get folks out on the KD line.

[Rangerat67]

One of these gauges was used at my last event and it worked great.  No damage to hole and every scored AQT that was double checked was confirmed.  As was stated above, I use the 30 caliber rule for first time Riflemen, but once they have a patch, I am not as generous : )

Rangerat67

[stoneknives]

I just cant resist answering the question "Are you being a hard A** for not using the 30 cal rule.    Well Yes in my opinion.     (Oooo that was fun to say)      Dont take offence, you did ask!


Thoughts.
The 30 cal rule was implemented for a reason. I think I know it but I could be wrong. In Fl most shootbosses use it if we are shooting at a full 25M. There are a few ranges where we only get 25 Yards and then the 30 cal rule is removed.  Once you are an instructor, no more 30 cal rule. No 30 cal rule for distinguished or 250 patches either.  You want a 30cal rule for that use a 30 cal.

I think it is important to remember our goal has little to do with making rifleman. Its getting people to the line to learn and hear the stories of the founders. I wont give away a rifleman's patch, but I try to give one to everybody I can because it makes them feel good and they come back with friends. The 30 cal rule lets me give out a small amount more of patches so a small amount of people are more happy and come back.

Steve

Just asking on a personal level - never mind all that stuff under my name.  Do folks regularly use the 30-cal rule when scoring rimfire 25m AQTs?  Am I being a hard ass for not doing that at my events?

Only time I *might* do it is if I'm looking for an extra point or two on a 208 or 209 score on a shooter to whom I want to offer a hat.

1st   No, you're not an A$$.
2nd  If you want a 30 cal hole... shoot a 30 cal.
3rd   If someone wants a 30 cal scoring on their target I'm happy to do it for them. As long as they write 30-R on the top of the target.
4th   Offer them a Blue Hat.

Oh your gages are very well done..... Send me an email so I can PayPal you for 1, if you still  have available.

H

[300berg]

4th   Offer them a Blue Hat.

It shouldn't be a consolation prize.

We have an in-state blue hat that shoots 240s centerfire.  Its about how he wants to contribute to the mission.

Blue vs. Orange hat divide will not help efforts in recruitment.

[stoneknives]

It was not intended for anyone to think Blue hat is a "consolation prize".
If a person wants to be a resource for the cadre it is a fine path to follow.

But if a person is on the cusp of making score don't goose the target to get them a Orange hat.
Persistence is the idea, right?

H

[Nightpoison]

New batch of Gauges is ready to ship out.

[USSEnterpriseCV6]

Sent you a pm.

[MattNH]

Please save me a titanium one

MattNH

[Nightpoison]

Done and done

Please save me a titanium one

MattNH

[Tennessee Beast]

I received my titanium one yesterday.  It is AMAZING craftsmanship.  It also works really well...I checked it out.  This is much more precise than sticking a 308 bullet in the hole!!!!!   Buy with confidence!!!