The Magic 250

[millsusaf]

How many Rifleman have shot or you have seen one shoot a perfect score?  Given the transitions, POA shifts and reloads with the time limits I would think it would be a hard thing to accomplish but I bet some do it.  For those who have, how often can you repeat it within 5 points.

I added incorrectly 220 225 is my best so far (2 events) but that is a LOOOONNNGGG way from 250.  If all the stars aligned I could see it being possible for me after a lot more practice...maybe.  lol

[eagle223usa]

I know my rifle is capable of a 250 easy, It's just that I'm a bad influence on it!

[Agrivere]

I shot a 242 with a saved round (my only jam all weedend - go figure) and a 244 on my last 2 AQTs at my most recent Appleseed. Definitely doable I personally just need more offhand practice as that's really the only stage where I am likely to drop any points.  I know it's been done so I'll be interested to hear more!

[armaborealis]

You know what they call the fellow who shoots a 250?

Rifleman.   



That said I think it would be fairly difficult without a tuned rifle with match ammunition (and flawless execution, of course), but certainly executable.  The 400 yard target is 4 MOA wide x 3 MOA tall.  But alas, it is not a square; the "shoulders" are missing, which is about 1/3 of the area.  So the target is about 8 sq MOA.  To compare, the 10-ring on a high power target should be about 2.5 sq MOA.  So our targets are definitely larger than a 10-ring on a highpower target.  Our targets are more the size of a "9" ring.  So a high power score of 90% should get you close to a 250 on the AQT. 

Top shooters are shooting somewhere around 490/500 (winners last year were 494), or 98%. 

To confirm the theory, we have an NRA High Power high master classified shooter at our local club who scored something like a 247 on the AQT.  I suspect with enough runs at it he'd get a 250.

[jmdavis]

The secret to stage 4 is not to shoot for the center of mass. If you do you you will shoot some 3s or 4s high.  With my scoped bolt gun, I crank up the scope and hold just into the black. That will usually insure me of at least a 96 and usually a 98 or 100.

If you are serious about shooting aqt's, you will zero on a stage 4 target rather than a square. I started doing this at the boot camps that I ran in 2010. The result at the first one was 100% rifleman rate. That advice has helped many shooters become riflemen in the past few years. I recommend it to shoot bosses who are interested as well. Try it on Sunday morning and see if you don't have more riflemen.


For stage 1 the secret is to fire a few shots, rest for a breath, and fire a few more until you are done. With 2 minutes there is plenty of time.

I have never shot a 250. I probably won't, either. But I know that it is absolutely attainable.

[yellowhousejake]

I watched a young man, about 13 I think, shoot a 249 248 and back it up with a 248 in Rochester IN. His rifle had a slight trigger job but nothing fancy, mostly just smoothed from use. He had good glass but not crazy priced, the ammo was not match Lapua or anything like that.

His rifle was a Marlin Mod 60. Tube fed, birch stock, factory barrel, gun store ammo.

Marksmanship happens in your brainpan. Sort your noggin out first.

DAve

-- Double checked the IAAR, it was a pair of 248s

[AAOptics]

Its been over 1 year since I made the public offer to GIVE a 900 dollar retail value scope to any shooter who got a 250 (under clock at a event), and I'm yet to give one out.  Keep in mind I'm not rewarding the score, I'm rewarding the effort, and persistence it takes to achieve such a  task.

Is 250 possible?  ABSOLUTLY
Is it going to happen accidentally, or over night? ABSOLUTLY NOT.

In my personal pursuit to score a 250, When I practiced ALOT of rimfire sling shooting (200 rds a day for about 3 months), I was getting 240-245's with a handful of 248's.  These were not official score's so they don't count.  My best official score is in the low 240's.  I was on a good pace, but I got over excited and short stroked my bolt action.  I cleared it pretty quickly, but my mental focus was gone, so the shots were rushed and missed their mark.

back to back 248's by a 13yr old must be Jerry Miculek's offspring.

[StevenK]

247-no .30 rule applied....can I have th scope without the mounts?

[BeSwift]

Over the years, I've seen 248 twice, and 249 once..248 from an experienced shooter once, and 248 & 249 from a female new shooter/ school teacher with a normal loaner, LTR.. More impressive to me, was the same female new shooter also shot a 209 with 8 misses due to a malfunction! Talk about a natural...I do see low to mid 240's at least 4x per year..  BeSwift

[eagle223usa]

I actually shot a 240 last Sat the 11th at Pittcairn Monroeville.  I know 250 is possible but I let my rifle down by not staying focused enough.

[VietVet]

 We have an IIT here in New York (longrange) who shot a 250.


Here's the link to the AAR.

    http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=33878.0

See reply #8..............

   

I was remiss in not mentioning Gunny shot that illusive 250!!       Now to do it at an outside shoot!!   

[Big John]

I want to see Rifleman with a muzzleloader.

If one were to take a 50 cal muzzleloader, and ace the fourth stage, then one would need to
accumulate 110 more points, which is 22 5 point shots. Assuming one was permitted to start
loaded but not percussion capped in phases 2 and 3, one would need to charge and fire every
ten seconds during phases 1, 2, and 3 to get off ten, six, and maybe seven shots in those phases
respectively, and they'd all have to be 5s.

I would grant the shooter the 50 cal rule. 

[MrFixit]

Highest I have seen is a 249, by an elderly gentleman... :-) I know it is possible, but my best so far is upper 230s... But like most instructors I haven't had nearly as much time shooting as I would like... :-)

   Andrew B.

[Mudcat]

I was fixated on a 250 for a short period of time I believe my highest was a 247 with my bolt action .22 a non paralax adjustable scope and bulk ammo.  I have no doubt that I can do it but I thought why. I figured it would take the fun out of it and I may lose interest. So I started turning the AQTs at an angle so I would have to do 2 different NPOA shifts, strong side and weak side, shooting with odd rifles lever actions, pump actions and single shots. To me that is much more challenging and fun. My current task is a single shot Handi rifle break action it is proving to be quite the challenge. 100 on stage 4 is easy enough as is 49-50 on stage 1 but those rapid fire stages are difficult. I may have met my match.

Big John the muzzle loader idea sounds very interesting.

I was at a shoot in Athens OH.  I believe that is where it was at, where a young man shot a 250 and backed it up with another 250.

[Charles McKinley]

I believe Birdman has shot a 250 at an event.

I have not taken the time to regularly shoot AQT's since I took the hat.

Some one said something about not letting perfect get in the way of good enough.  I would rather have full lines than a 250.

YMMV

Chuck

[Mdeng]

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=43591.0

The perfect 250 has happened!

[AAOptics]

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=43591.0

The perfect 250 has happened!

Looks like I have a scope to send out

[AAOptics]

Just a update, all qualification's were met, and Im working with the shooter right now to get him his scope.

[P.Lewis13]

Huge thanks to A&A optics with setting me up with a great scope! Can't wait to put it on the rifle and be out at the range practicing for a known distance shoot.

Thank you again
42769vette
www.aaoptics.com 

[GoldFish]

In September of 2009 in Athens, OH, I saw a man shoot a 250 with a bolt action .22, which he immediately followed up with a 249...which he was quite upset about because he knew exactly why, where, and how he messed up on the 3rd silhouette of stage 3.  However, he keep shooting, taking what he had done wrong into account, and he improved himself.
Would most of us be upset with a 249?  Heck no!  I'd take a 249 any day of the week (as my highest is only a 240, I think).

The reason that this man was disappointed (yet kept shooting and improving!!!) was because his attainable level of skill at that time, his failure point, was a 250.  He didn't reach his failure point on that particular target.  We should always be striving not only to reach our failure points, but to push those points further.
On an AQT, people often think that the only failure point, or aspect of improvement, is a higher score.  But what about using someone else's rifle, or maybe a crappy underfolding stock AK?  What about shooting stages 3 and 4 sitting (instead of prone)?  What about shooting if with your off hand?  What about only counting shots in the gray?  What about doing it in less time?  What about adding another mag change, or maybe sticking a mag change in stages 1 and 4 to practice doing it when you have a little more time?

Opportunities for pushing your failure points are everywhere, and as stated before, reach far beyond just a higher score.

"Amateurs train until they get it right, professionals train until they get it wrong."
-Chris Costa

[Hop]

Huge thanks to A&A optics with setting me up with a great scope! Can't wait to put it on the rifle and be out at the range practicing for a known distance shoot.

Thank you again
42769vette
www.aaoptics.com

Congrats Rifleman!!!  KD's are a blast.  I put a Vortex from Alan on my M1A and the uncapped turrets with zero stop, resettable zero and big MOA hash marks makes it much easier to dial in at distance.

[509gman]

"Amateurs train until they get it right, professionals train until they can't get it wrong."
-Chris Costa

Fixed it for you.

[AFTERMATH]

250 is actually quite simple - I just have a difficult time doing simple/mundane tasks...  I'm pretty good at kicking myself in the teeth. 

4B

[GoldFish]

"Amateurs train until they get it right, professionals train until they get it wrong."
-Chris Costa

Fixed it for you.

Nope, I had it right.  There is ALWAYS a failure point that you can push yourself too, always a next level, always points of improvement that can be made, always a limit (a point of failure in training) that you should reach in order to improve your behavior and skills.

[mac66]

And yet.....my rifleman patch is as good as one earned by shooting 250.  Go figure 

I would love to shoot a 250,   237 was my highest so far.   One of these days I am going to buckle down and actually practice doing AQTs to see if I can improve my score.  A self imposed "Rifleman Boot Camp" if you will.   

[Mdeng]

Thanks again A&A Optics for the Vortex rifle scope.  It has been installed on the rifle today and test fired.  A new stock has been ordered to give a proper cheek weld on the stock.  Once we have all the pieces together we'll start working up hand loads.

[StevenK]

This weekend I met a shooter who regularly shoots a 250, timed. He denied ever having done this. At our event he shot a 249 - in winter seed ice cold freezing rain etc. and he still denied ever having shot a 250. Those who accompanied him quietly confirmed he was full of malarky about the 250 - he shoots it all the time!  They advised that he regularly throws out his 247 and 248 scores.

I believe every bit of it. It was a pleasure to work with him - a real shooter, by gum. There is much good to say about him.

[Mdeng]

Lightning strikes St. Charles Sportsman's club for the third time.  Another member of our Jr program scored a Perfect 250 on day 2 of last weekends clinic.  Here's the after action report.  http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=46394.0

The rifle used was a nearly stock Ruger 10/22 Wal-Mart Special with a 22 inch barrel SS.  The only upgrades made to this rifle was an auto bolt release mod, bolt handle and Nikon Pro-Staff Rimfire 4X scope. 

[LindaFromAppleCreek]

I believe Birdman has shot a 250 at an event.

I have not taken the time to regularly shoot AQT's since I took the hat.

Some one said something about not letting perfect get in the way of good enough.  I would rather have full lines than a 250.

YMMV

Chuck

Yes, he did. I was there. It was in Zanesville, Ohio at Briar Rabbit in December 2012, if I remember the year right.