Telling the History

[hogfamily]

Well I hope I'm not about to commit heresy...

When I was researching Samuel Whittemore for my first history presentation I spent several hours reading books, posts on this forum, and of course the internet. What I found was several versions of Samuel's story, most were similar with some variations such as how many bayonet wounds he received - eight up to thirteen.

A version I have heard at the  Appleseeds I have attended is Samuel's wife died sometime after April 19th and he remarried a younger woman and had several children before he died at 98 years old. I could not find that in anything I read. I did find that sometime years before April 19th Samuel was married to a second wife and had several children with her. (He had children with his first wife also).

In researching David Lamson I read that he was possibly Native American and African American, or Native American and Spanish, or just Native American or...(&c). I found him in several African American History sources that generally agreed that he was African American and possibly a freed slave.

I have learned that I will always research many sources before I do a presentation so that I present the most correct version that I can find.

[FiremanBob]

Hogfamily, you have written a more useful post for the instructor corps than you may realize. I have also noticed that when the story is passed down through "oral tradition" it tends to get embellished. There is even question about whether John Parker said "If they mean to have a war, let it begin here," as those words appear to have come from the recollection of Theodore Parker, his grandson who was born in 1807. Nothing in my research has uncovered anything about Whittemore remarrying, and that particular detail has not been told at any AS I've been to. To guard against that, we have to do our own research. Doing your own research also helps you be a better storyteller, because you will really own it and you'll present it with greater confidence.

[slim]

I have learned that I will always research many sources before I do a presentation so that I present the most correct version that I can find.

How do you know which one is the most correct?

[Big John]

You usually take the information that most, hopefully all, sources consider to be right and use that. You don't use
the item found in only one of ten sources.

[hogfamily]

SWAG?

If the source tells the story a certain way like with Samuel Whittemore. -  The number of bayonet wounds he suffered ranged from eight to thirteen. When I tell the story I say "Several bayonet wounds". With Samuel's wife dying and him getting remarried and having more children after his "last stand" the only time I have heard that is at an Appleseed. I could not find it in any other source so I'm fairly confident that never happened. Most times the sources said that he had remarried several years before 1775.

As I wrote in the OP about David Lamson. I found out more about him in African American history sources than Revolutionary War sources.

When I am not entirely sure if the version I am telling is reasonably correct I will say something like "some stories say" or " some sources say".

One place I like to start is here:   http://boston1775.blogspot.com/

[olefido]

At several of the Appleseeds I have gone to, the most usual "mistake" is Samuel's age at the time and the age he was when he passed away.

[hogfamily]

At several of the Appleseeds I have gone to, the most usual "mistake" is Samuel's age at the time and the age he was when he passed away.

Even Samuel's ages are different by a few years depending on the source.

I have decided on 80 when he made his "last stand" and 98 when he passed. I base those ages on his monument.

[fisherdawg]

I feel we have a duty to be as accurate as possible while recognizing we will always have some conflict between sources.  Credibilty is essential in our History Telling if we are to reignite the Spirit the inspired Sam Whittemore.

I certainly have experienced Fred's sincere and intense concern to "get it right" -- having been called out (in private) when I botched "Jonas Parker" (First Strike) as "Jonathon Parker" and after Fred point it out me with a soft voice in my ear that said "get your facts right." 

In instances around 'simple' facts such as the number of bayonet wounds, it's my opinion the we should err on the low side, if we are to err at all. The essential 'big' fact is that Samuel Whittemore must have valued Liberty above his own life. Why else would he have gone to the fight?  We must not add or exagerrate anything in the story that upon subsequent discovery by a participant would (potentially) impare their inspiration.  It is this idea that leads me to refer to Luther Blanchard as 18 -- his grave marker indicates this - rather than as young as 14 according to some sources 

hf, you are becoming an awesome history teller and I'm glad you are in this program. Good to be on the trail with you and all the hogfamily
fisherdawg

[olefido]

Samuel Whittemore (July 27, 1696[1] - February 3, 1793) was an American farmer and soldier. He was 78 years of age when he became the oldest known colonial combatant in the American Revolutionary War (1775-83).

This is the start of his entry in Wikipedia. While I don't considered Wikipedia definitive by any degree, it is probably the source that a lot of people new to Appleseed would look to if they wanted to "fact check" us.

[hogfamily]

I have a large photo of his marker, like I posted above, that I will show when I next tell his story.

[asminuteman]

I have a large photo of his marker, like I posted above, that I will show when I next tell his story.

Kind Sir (hogfamily)
Bezon (shawnee for basic hello) (pronounce bay-zone)
You are receiving some great advice... but possible I can enlighten.

Twas not Samuel, but Hezekiah who' first wife  (Sara) past 6 months after thee event of 1775 19th, of April , to remarry thee following year to Suzanna (2nd wife).

David Lamson was a "Mulatto"  a term used to refer to a person who is born from one white parent and one black parent.  Veteran of thee F&I war, as a young scout, earning his total freedom, was so respected that he was voted captain on battle road.

[hogfamily]

 Quyana, (thank you in Yup'ik), asminuteman!

[asminuteman]

Quyana, (thank you in Yup'ik), asminuteman!

Wohdoh nah
Sahwee Tehpeeloolah Kahnohchkay

[asminuteman]

Nathaniel Wyman shot and killed on Lexington Green that fateful morning was in Hezekiah's family, (cousin) ,
Just think of thee movation to go down the road toward Concord, after thee regulars,..... "Just Watch Me" ... as he was quoted.

Ammi Cutter (Benjamin) and the Old Men of Menotomy , who is Ammi?..... Hezekiahs brother in-law (cousin Hannah married to Ammi) .... And who is Ammis best friend?..... David Lamson ...... the circle is quite intertwined

enjoy

[slim]

Samuel Whittemore (July 27, 1696[1] - February 3, 1793) was an American farmer and soldier. He was 78 years of age when he became the oldest known colonial combatant in the American Revolutionary War (1775-83).

This is the start of his entry in Wikipedia. While I don't considered Wikipedia definitive by any degree, it is probably the source that a lot of people new to Appleseed would look to if they wanted to "fact check" us.

Deacon Josiah Haynes was older than Samuel Whittemore. Not only was he the oldest combatant, he was the oldest KIA that day. He set such a blistering pace the young men could barely keep up with him.

You are correct most people will look up "some of those names they heard." I remember doing it after my early Appleseed events. I have a notebook with Sam ? in it. There are many resources out there for the history. Some is first-hand accounts (sworn many years later in some cases) and others are lore passed down from generation to generation.

We'll have people come out and tell us it was four grenadiers instead of six. Who cares? The main point of telling the history is you get the point across that our forefathers weren't couch potatoes who let their government strip all their rights away and you inspire the listeners to get off their lazy butts and get involved in the future of our country.

Strive for accuracy but, more importantly, tell an entertaining story. This isn't a college paper. Send them home with something to remember and activate that fire that burns for liberty deep down inside us all.

Like our shooting, this doesn't have to be a sub-MOA presentation. Get close enough and then do it again for more Americans.

[Taylor]

Samuel Whittemore (July 27, 1696[1] - February 3, 1793) was an American farmer and soldier. He was 78 years of age when he became the oldest known colonial combatant in the American Revolutionary War (1775-83).

This is the start of his entry in Wikipedia. While I don't considered Wikipedia definitive by any degree, it is probably the source that a lot of people new to Appleseed would look to if they wanted to "fact check" us.

Deacon Josiah Haynes was older than Samuel Whittemore. Not only was he the oldest combatant, he was the oldest KIA that day. He set such a blistering pace the young men could barely keep up with him.

You are correct most people will look up "some of those names they heard." I remember doing it after my early Appleseed events. I have a notebook with Sam ? in it. There are many resources out there for the history. Some is first-hand accounts (sworn many years later in some cases) and others are lore passed down from generation to generation.

We'll have people come out and tell us it was four grenadiers instead of six. Who cares? The main point of telling the history is you get the point across that our forefathers weren't couch potatoes who let their government strip all their rights away and you inspire the listeners to get off their lazy butts and get involved in the future of our country.

Strive for accuracy but, more importantly, tell an entertaining story. This isn't a college paper. Send them home with something to remember and activate that fire that burns for liberty deep down inside us all.

Like our shooting, this doesn't have to be a sub-MOA presentation. Get close enough and then do it again for more Americans.

Spot on!

[olefido]

I agree that getting the message out is more important than getting every small detail right. Hence, my remark on Wikipedia's accuracy rating. This is the kind of question that professional or very passionate amateur historians love to debate about but that the majority of our "target audience" is not interested in. No point in pole vaulting mouse droppings.

[slim]

I agree with you and I'm not trying to do that either.

Does anyone know if there's been any progress on the History Handout? I know it'd been ballparked a few times and in the works more than once but I'm not sure we ever standardized it. Having a form in the packet with the big names and places, timeline, etc., would be good for us to do because that would give folks a way to look more facts up on their own instead of relying on just Wikipedia or whatever they could come across with google-fu.

[fisherdawg]

Does anyone know if there's been any progress on the History Handout? I know it'd been ballparked a few times and in the works more than once but I'm not sure we ever standardized it. Having a form in the packet with the big names and places, timeline, etc., would be good for us to do because that would give folks a way to look more facts up on their own instead of relying on just Wikipedia or whatever they could come across with google-fu.

Yup:
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=39698.msg285231#msg285231

[slim]

So is it being printed and shipped with shoot boxes?

[FiremanBob]

That history handout is very fine. I've been working on my own, which is a little larger (4 sheets, double sided). The completed draft should be ready in a week or so at which time I'll post it for comments.

I've been reading the Boston1775 blog for a while, and have it set up in my Morning Coffee add-on to load every Sunday morning. It is always interesting, and always uses primary sources so it's quite reliable.

[asminuteman]

That history handout is very fine. I've been working on my own, which is a little larger (4 sheets, double sided). The completed draft should be ready in a week or so at which time I'll post it for comments.

I've been reading the Boston1775 blog for a while, and have it set up in my Morning Coffee add-on to load every Sunday morning. It is always interesting, and always uses primary sources so it's quite reliable.

*two thumbs up*..... Boston1775 blog

[fisherdawg]

So is it being printed and shipped with shoot boxes?

No -- LibertySeed sent me some, but mostly I print locally.
Nero & dreamerofdreams & armaborealis worked on it, I think.
I'm Alaska State LibertySeed coordinator,
The pay is about 4 time the Shoot Boss rate. 

[fisherdawg]

That history handout is very fine. I've been working on my own, which is a little larger (4 sheets, double sided). The completed draft should be ready in a week or so at which time I'll post it for comments.

I've been reading the Boston1775 blog for a while, and have it set up in my Morning Coffee add-on to load every Sunday morning. It is always interesting, and always uses primary sources so it's quite reliable.

Ken, I'll be looking for your handout!!!!! 

[fisherdawg]

So is it being printed and shipped with shoot boxes?

Also, there are some who think another piece of paper distracts attention from the story teller and hence the story.

Me, I LOVE maps.

[George Hacker]

Also, there are some who think another piece of paper distracts attention from the story teller and hence the story.

I agree with this sentiment. Handouts are a distraction and weaken the impact of the storytelling. The best approach would use large maps (banners or presentation) that would allow the storyteller to point at locations and keep everyone's attention. Providing the handouts at the end for attendees to take home would reinforce what they heard and give them something to remind them of the Appleseed experience.

ShadowMan

[FiremanBob]

My plan is give the history handout together with the marksmanship handout at sign-in. I very much doubt that students will pull out their history handout at lunch for the story, and therefore it will not be a distraction. It's a great take-home resource and souvenir (in the original sense of that word).

[slim]

What if we found a sponsor to cover a 4x6 vinyl banner map of battle road for every Shoot Boss? Maybe even someone willing to print all our handouts?

Would that help further our cause?

[brianheeter]

To the original post....

I think you have to consider the source.  Like one of the replies above states wikipedia is not the most reliable source.  It's not a bad place to start but you have to dig more if you really want to know what's going on.  My thought is that David Hackett Fischer is a respected and published historian, a professor at a respected university and he lets you in on his sources (original source material).  This beats the pants off of most of what is on the internet.  Any shmuck (did I even spell that right?) can put something on the internet.  And, despite what we've been told by that other dubious medium (television), you can put things on the internet that aren't true ("Bonojur!").

C ya,

brian

[Mutti]

My plan is give the history handout together with the marksmanship handout at sign-in. I very much doubt that students will pull out their history handout at lunch for the story, and therefore it will not be a distraction. It's a great take-home resource and souvenir (in the original sense of that word).

I've been including a Handout in the paperwork dond / Mrs. Sarah use. We tell them to "put this some place in your Range bag".  I do pull one out during History to remind them for any person/event they find particularly interesting the information is right at their fingertips.