Author Topic: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun  (Read 4927 times)

Offline K98Al

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2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« on: February 28, 2011, 01:01:29 PM »
Anyone have info on how to sign up for this year's event?
Before we can defeat our external enemies, we must first meet and defeat everything in ourselves that is weak, lazy, and cowardly; everything in our character that is materialistic rather than spiritual, which seeks weak compromise and accommodation rather than struggle and victory.

Offline oladcock

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2011, 12:53:24 PM »
You might drop "DieslPwrd" a PM, she's planning on kicking some dirt up at the run & gun. Personaly, I learned to shoot a rifle so I don't have to run! :) Go for it, and the "alarm list" will be waiting for you in the parking lot! :).......O.L.
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Offline K98Al

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2011, 01:18:47 PM »
Thanks. I'll probably be reminded that I should be on the alarm list before it's over.......
Before we can defeat our external enemies, we must first meet and defeat everything in ourselves that is weak, lazy, and cowardly; everything in our character that is materialistic rather than spiritual, which seeks weak compromise and accommodation rather than struggle and victory.

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2011, 02:52:26 PM »
Personaly, I learned to shoot a rifle so I don't have to run!

I guess it's like the, "Is the glass half full or half empty" kind of thing.

I do it because I want to be physically able to reach my friends if needed.  Like Issac Davis and his men :)

It's going to be fun Al, and yes, two miles into the run you will be wanting to submit your Request For Transfer Form to the Alarm list **)  I know I do, but for reasons unknown I return every year for another beating ++)

Keep in touch and I'll make sure you are in.


Offline duc-dog

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2011, 09:15:23 PM »
Here is the contact info for the guy who ran the shoot last year,from last years flyer:

 Smokey Briggs at 432-943-4313, 432-445-5475 or smokey@pecos.net

That and a word of encouragement is all I have to offer..... Good Luck

           Milt
If you will not fight when you can easily win without bloodshed.
   You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory because it
      is better to perish than to live as slaves.  
         Winston Churchhill (paraphased)

Offline olfart

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2011, 12:26:54 AM »
You might drop "DieslPwrd" a PM, she's planning on kicking some dirt up at the run & gun. Personaly, I learned to shoot a rifle so I don't have to run! :) Go for it, and the "alarm list" will be waiting for you in the parking lot! :).......O.L.

And the Alarm List Decrepit Reserve will be waiting at the computer to re-live vicariously all of your adventures!
"The cure of crime is not in the electric chair, but in the high chair" ...  However, the electric chair works wonders on recidivism.

Reddot

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2011, 07:10:20 PM »

Amen to that!! O0

You might drop "DieslPwrd" a PM, she's planning on kicking some dirt up at the run & gun. Personaly, I learned to shoot a rifle so I don't have to run! :) Go for it, and the "alarm list" will be waiting for you in the parking lot! :).......O.L.

And the Alarm List Decrepit Reserve will be waiting at the computer to re-live vicariously all of your adventures!


Offline Sir Not Appearing In This Film

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2011, 08:10:40 PM »
The only reason I do this event is because I met a 70 yo man that completed the course. I do what he did - WALK.

Placing 45th out of 52 isn't so bad.  ::)




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Attitudes are contagious. I hope mine is worth catching.

Offline zonkertx

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2011, 12:33:54 AM »

Offline scuzzy

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2011, 09:58:00 PM »
The only reason I do this event is because I met a 70 yo man that completed the course. I do what he did - WALK.

Placing 45th out of 52 isn't so bad.  ::)


I'd be happy to place 52nd out of 52.  8)

I just wanted to be left alone.

Offline Texas Rifleman

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2011, 10:53:03 PM »
Was traveling during last years event.
Going to try and make it this year !! :~
...when the student is ready, the teacher will appear.
Davilla - 5/09

Offline doubleLL

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2011, 12:43:30 PM »
I have a few questions about the Run and Gun.

What do you need for the Pecos Run and Gun? (ie: Type of rifle, pistol, ammo etc)

What is the typical course? (ie: distance that you shoot and do you need to do come ups and windage?)

thanks guys!
"Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien."
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Offline zonkertx

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2011, 01:19:47 PM »
There were a lot of ARs out there, but it was difficult to determine hits/misses.  Something with a bit more power will leave nothing to the imagination.  :D

Longest range was about 300 or 400 yds.  I had figured the mildot size for the 12x16" steel targets to estimate range, but when shooting time came, I just held off what seemed about right.

For pistol, I recommend a semiauto in .40 or .45.  Some of the 9mms were having problems knocking over the targets with one hit.

Ammo is heavy; don't carry too much like I did last year.  My load was 100 of .308 and 36 of .45 ACP.  I forget the exact round count used, but about 45 rounds of .308 and maybe 25 of .45.

I also will limit myself to a 100 oz. Camelbak of water, plus a 1 qt. canteen of Gatorade, after hydrating well before departure.  I overshot on how much I carried.

alonso1

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2011, 03:42:21 PM »
I have a few questions about the Run and Gun.

What do you need for the Pecos Run and Gun? (ie: Type of rifle, pistol, ammo etc)

What is the typical course? (ie: distance that you shoot and do you need to do come ups and windage?)

thanks guys!

Lauren

Your AR will be fine.  The targets are 12x18 steels.  You can hear a good hit on them with a 556. When a RSO calls a miss and a shooter thinks it's a hit, it's usually a miss and just wishful thinking on the exhausted shooters part (ask me how I know ;D )

Zonker is right about the 9mm's.  Several of the targets are pepper poppers.  I take my 9, you have to go for head shots or several quick center mass shots to knock them down. The targets for pistol work were only 10 to 15 feet if I remember correctly.

The Rifle steels range from 100 yards to 300, maybe 400.  I've noticed it's usually odd distances like 130 yards, 215 yards, those Pecos fellers are funny like that.

As far as come ups, you can dial in if you like and use slings if you like, but that really eats up your time.  With that said, I always still find the time to use a good loop sling.

The course is about 6 miles long and it's only as hard as you choose to make it.  I like to run it and go for time, but there are plenty of other folks who walk the course and still learn about themselves and their equipment.

Hope to see you there.

Offline LabRat

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2011, 04:46:16 PM »
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.

Thomas Paine

Offline Texas Rifleman

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2011, 08:08:03 PM »
You might want to try walking with a light pack that will equal your H20/ammo load-out now. Then work up to running, then work up to running distance. (with gear) That is if you care about time. Like Mark said you can walk the course if you choose. Just thought I would throw it out there.
...when the student is ready, the teacher will appear.
Davilla - 5/09

Offline Aromatic

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2011, 10:41:12 PM »
Bump.  Anyone get an email about registration?

Offline kowboygunsmith

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2011, 12:22:28 PM »
Do you know the deadline for registration? and the price this year?
"Dolor Temporarius, Gloria Aeterna, Cicatrices Virgines Placent"

alonso1

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2011, 03:13:59 PM »
I just sent an e mail requesting the registration information to the Host of this event.  I'll post when I get the information. 

Until then, keep shooting, walking, running...


Offline DieslPwrd

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2011, 05:00:51 AM »
Well heck, just found this thread...by now you all probably know RnG's been changed to 15 Oct. 2011.  Darn it, I wanted to run in 106 degrees again! Registration still $75.  Hope to see some 'seeders there.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 05:14:22 AM by DieslPwrd »
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Offline Sir Not Appearing In This Film

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2011, 03:41:25 PM »
Since I can't make it this year due to business obligations I thought I'd share my very rough personal AAR from last year for the benefit of others.

2010 PRNG Personal AAR:

Keep in mind this was written by a left-handed person.




Started the course - Bushmaster M4gery (14.5" with perm phantom and Trijicon NSN 4x) with 104 rounds of Black Hills 55 gr 5.56mm and a CZ-82 pistol with 50 rounds of Silver Bear FMJ 9x18 - 1 in the chamber, 24 in magazines, the remainder in a Ziploc bag. For the AR I had 3 30 round Cproducts mags with 28 rounds each and one full Colt 20 rounder I would start with on stages that required a mag change. I only had two magazines for the Cz-82 - I forgot to bring my other Cz-82 mags.

Stage 1 - I did OK. I just know when I finished Alonso said I did better than he did. After I finished firing at the steels from the second position I found myself wanting to surge forward as this stage was so similar to 2009's Stage 4. My friends POP and Mark were RO's here and had to point out where the next position was. I'm sure they were thinking "numbskull." My time was 2 minutes, 15 seconds.

Stage 2 - Started with 13 rounds, 1 in the pipe, 12 in mag and a spare 12 round magazine. Had more mags, but left them at home as an oversight. Czech ambi-holster-man-purse was on my right side. I drew the cocked and locked pistol with my right hand and handed it to my left hand, knelt with my right elbow on my right knee and began. Fired 5 rounds to knock down the 4 steels. The steels were very slow to go down, so the moment I saw movement I transitioned to the next one. Holstered pistol (carried on right side due to AR mag carrier on right side) and then picked up rifle, inserted mag, closed bolt, hasty sling, then fired while standing and hit steel (about 175 yds.) on first shot. 6 shots, 5 hits in 28 seconds. I was pleased with the results. I need to perhaps move my mag carrier from my left side to my left rear and have a left handled holster - but I still made it work. Part of the reason for the holster on the right was to balance my weight load - mags on left, pistol on right.

I remembered to top off pistol mags as I traveled to stage 3.

Stage 3 - Did OK on this stage. I should have moved more quickly when transitioning from each position. When I got to the right hand firing position my left hand carry sling got in the way. I had to get my neck wrap untangled from the carry sling, so this ate some time. I have no clue what my round count was. Pain from my feet was starting to distract me. I did complete the stage in 2 minutes 14 seconds.


Stage 4 - I sucked! Pistol had 1 in the chamber and a full 12 mag when I began. On command I drew the cocked and locked pistol with my right hand, transitioned the pistol to my left, and began while standing. I went through 32 rounds to hit all of these targets. There was at least 4 steels and as many as 8 steel disks that looked to be 5" in diameter. One of the steels I hit 3 times before it went down. The impact point of the Cz-82 at close range is apparently low and to the left (15 yards? - seemed closer) - I've never shot the pistol at a paper target to verify impact point - just plinked with it to verify function (functioned 100%). I had to use Kentucky elevation to connect. After both mags were empty (25 rounds) I knelt down. I left an empty mag in the pistol, got out my Ziploc bag of loose 9x18 and would feed one round through the ejection port, close slide, fire, slide locked back - repeat 6 more times while kneeling down. A 3rd mag would have cut the time (and stress) down, but so would my .45 ACP Glock. I didn't bring the Glock because it weighs twice as much as a the Cz-82. It took more than two minutes to complete the stage. I felt better after seeing the score sheet. I was the second lowest score in this stage, BUT 5 people timed out. Given the circumstances, I think I did OK. Two minutes 19 seconds.

I'm a guy who brings a rifle to a pistol fight, so this stage was an eye opener. Took over 2 minutes to finish. Surprised me that I didn't time out. Maybe I'll carry a 7.62x39 AK pistol for pistol stages next time.  ;)

Somewhere along the way to Stage 5 someone asked about the next stage. I forgot we had a Stage 5 since we only had 4 stages in 2009. Just because the course was one way last year, don't expect it to be identical next year.

Stage 5 - Brendan Briggs was the RO here. I remembered to remove the carry sling. When he said go I inserted the mag, hasty sling and dropped into prone. I know I had some misses, but finished the stage in 1 minute, 46 seconds. After finishing, my right calf muscle cramped badly when I stood.

I then hobbled across the finish line with my hurting, blistered feet and cramped leg. Even with hurt feet (I walked that last mile with most of my weight on my heels) I finished in 2 hours 44 minutes. After all scoring had been tallied I was 45th out of 53.


I had 56 5.56MM rounds and 13 rounds of 9x18 Mak left after finishing, meaning I fired 48 5.56MM rounds and 37 9x18 rounds during the course.



My own critique of my choices:

The magnified image of the Trijicon 4X worked against me. Most rifle shots were fired in a standing or kneeling position. The scope is an advantage IF you have a more stable firing position. Sometimes while kneeling the target was obscured by brush, so standing was the only option.  Iron sights on a 20" Government profile barrel (not an HBAR) or a 1x4 power scope would have been better.

While the thought of having a lightweight 12/13 round pistol work great in concept, carrying my Glock .45 would have been better.

Other than the scope magnifying my movement when standing, the 14.5" with perm Phantom Bushmaster ran 100% with Cproducts mags. I haven't had a single malfunction with this rifle since I got rid of the ban era magazines that had frustrated me at the first Texas Appleseed at Mingus, TX in 2006. The point of impact did seem to hit to the right and low from point of aim on stage 5. Zeroed the rifle on Thursday August 12th prior to the event with the same ammo. Not sure what was up with that as it was the same ammo. FWIW Pecos is higher in elevation than Houston. Scope mount was still tight after the event.

I'd wear my ancient prescription lenses when shooting, then change back to sunglasses. Sunglasses broke after stage 4. I need new sunglasses that will accept a prescription insert.

Since we drew playing cards to choose what time we began the run I was able to plan ahead. I tanked up on two 20 oz Gatorades just before the run - this worked really well - and ate two nut based snack bars. Only consumed half of my 100 .oz Camelbak water and one 20 oz bottle of Gatorade while on the course - drank twice that during PRG 2009. I never experienced any dehydration symptoms other than at the end I did get a cramp on my right calf muscle after finishing stage 5. Should have eaten a banana prior to event for potassium.


Just before leaving Houston for PRNG I found some Desert Storm era USGI brown cotton neck wraps I'd bought years ago in my storage unit. My God - wearing this neck wrap made all the difference - it shaded all of the back of my neck and most of my face. I still wore my Spec-Ops neck wrap under it. My Peltor electronic hearing protection is pretty lightweight so I wore it so I wouldn't have to fiddle with foam plugs and could hear range commands well. When I was traveling between stages I would get the cotton wrap and cover my boonie hat, put the hearing protection on top of the hat which kept the cotton wrap in place, then wrapped the cotton like a shemagh around my head. I used 70 SPF sunblock. Wearing gloves that exposed my fingertips I did not sunburn one bit - that's a big deal to me. My fingertips are a little brown though. I'd also use the cotton wrap as a towel to wipe sweat out of my eyes before a stage. With the gargoyle style glasses, boonie and scarf/shemagh there wasn't a lot of wind to allow sweat around my eyes to evaporate.


NOTES TO SELF:


I NEED BETTER FOOTWEAR FOR THIS EVENT. (said that last year too, LOL)

The Giles Wilderness two point sling is good if all you are going to do is fire from a specific shoulder. I'd wrapped paracord around the rear carry sling attaching point because the rear nylon strap/sling mount came loose during PRG 2009, no issues this year. Need to investigate a single point for carry only that will quickly disconnect. Carry sling should be disconnected prior to beginning stage to allow smooth transition from strong side to weak side. Started to strangle myself on stage 3 transitioning from left (strong side) to right and getting the carry sling untangled from my face wrap cost time.

The ambi safety and Norgon magazine ambi-catch for the AR15 rock.

Chafing - my new Hanes underwear is very comfortable when sitting all day at work but has seams that rub the back of my thighs when walking 6.35 miles. I may go commando next year and wear a kilt.

Pistol notes - first time I've used a pistol shooting at anything other than paper or critters:

Carried Cz-82 and 50 rounds of Silver Bear FMJ 9x18. Two 12 round mags prepped (should have brought another mag - meant to but forgot) and one round in the pipe. Aiming point at close range resulted in impact points that were too low. 13 rounds were left after completing all stages.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 03:48:34 PM by Sir Not Appearing In This Film »
Ladyseed Man Slave

"In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing." - Theodore Roosevelt

Attitudes are contagious. I hope mine is worth catching.

Offline ConradG

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2011, 05:00:48 PM »
man im super excited about this, it will be my first year entering and my father is joining me also. My friend says im crazy for wanting to carry my hk91 clone  :---but ive firmly decided that it will be the rifle i use, gonna lug around about 100-120 rounds of .308 and carry an xd-9 service.

alonso1

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2011, 02:18:09 PM »
Taking a HK91 clone is quite impressive.  Last year I had planned on running with my Garand but I chickened out at the last minute and took a very lightweight AR.

This year I thought about my Garand for about 2 seconds then quickly decided on the AR again.

Regardless of what your Rifle choice is, you will learn a lot about your equipment and yourself.

I'll be seeing you there.

Offline ConradG

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2011, 10:54:04 AM »
this will be my current rifle set up. i know ill be regretting it in the long run but i am going as a personal challenge and for fun.  :---  homemade sling with a belt attachment the goes around my chest to hold the rifle close to my body and keep it from bouncing around. also got a nice compact 2-6x28mm scope. instead of the huge bushnell in the pic that i had to remove my rear sight to fit. Rifle is an '80 POF G3 parts kit unissued when i bought it back in 05 on a PTR receiver that a good buddy of mine welded for me. He will be coming from san antonio to the Run N Gun also. ^:)^

« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 10:56:49 AM by ConradG »

Offline DieslPwrd

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2011, 02:22:36 AM »
Dear Sir Not Appearing in This Film,
Good to see there's another MP fan in the AS crowd.  Too bad you'll miss RnG this year...that may have been me who asked about Stage 5 after Stage 4; I remember envying your shady shemagh and was probably asking "do you know where the H. Stage 5 is?" having blown way too much time getting lost between 1 and 2.  Hope to see you at the 2012 RnG.
Being born free is a privilege. Living free is an honor. Dying free is a responsibility. - LTC David Grossman

Offline Sir Not Appearing In This Film

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2011, 12:38:58 PM »
Hello DieslPwrd,

Now that I see your pic above I do recall you passing me after Stage 4, but think you said to me "Isn't this fun?" and I think I replied "Yes" while my mind thought "Why am I doing this?" as my blistered feet ached and other competitors passed me.  :D

I notice you are an IIT now - Thank you for stepping up! O0

Best regards,

Steve aka SNAITF

Ladyseed Man Slave

"In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing." - Theodore Roosevelt

Attitudes are contagious. I hope mine is worth catching.

Offline Sir Not Appearing In This Film

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2011, 12:43:20 PM »
You might want to try walking with a light pack that will equal your H20/ammo load-out now. Then work up to running, then work up to running distance. (with gear) That is if you care about time. Like Mark said you can walk the course if you choose. Just thought I would throw it out there.

Include a 10 lb. handweight to simulate a rifle. This also makes an effective bludgeon to use on muggers - not that I would know anything about that.  &)
Ladyseed Man Slave

"In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing." - Theodore Roosevelt

Attitudes are contagious. I hope mine is worth catching.

Offline Sir Not Appearing In This Film

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2011, 01:21:02 PM »
man im super excited about this, it will be my first year entering and my father is joining me also. My friend says im crazy for wanting to carry my hk91 clone  :---but ive firmly decided that it will be the rifle i use, gonna lug around about 100-120 rounds of .308 and carry an xd-9 service.

That's a nice looking rig Conrad. I own a couple of those rifles (Portuguese G3S and an HK). I think it will serve you well, especially if your scope mount is lightweight. My Hensoldt and its mount are not light and help my rifles weigh about 12-13 lbs when installed.

I'm curious -  since you also seem to be a southpaw, do you have a Tac-Latch or some other means of releasing the mag with your strong hand?


Every year I want to try a different rifle, but in the end I keep drifting back to the M4 platform, mainly due to weight.


I want to try this run with:

AKM
AK74
PSL
M1 Garand
G3

Alas, there is only one Pecos run per year.  :'(
Ladyseed Man Slave

"In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing." - Theodore Roosevelt

Attitudes are contagious. I hope mine is worth catching.

Offline ConradG

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Re: 2011 Pecos Run N Gun
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2011, 04:18:57 PM »
yup southpaw here. i just need a pad for around the neck and shoulder because it does get quite uncomfy after a short while. i installed the original paddle release myself when i built the rifle. Let me tell you it was no fun at all. I only had a dremel and honestly took about a month to do it. i would get frustrated and quit until one day it finally worked lol. i never use the button to drop the mag now paddle release is the way to go definitely.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 04:21:06 PM by ConradG »