How does appleseed compare to frontsite?

[ktm525xcatv]

for a 2 day coarse there?
is there different things covered at either place?

[SamD]

Front Site doesn't teach this.
I won't go into Dr. Pizza's ethical issues but's lets just say nthat anyone that calls himself a "4Weapon Combat Master"
and has never been in a gunfight has other issues.
Front Site is a resort, not a weapons school.
Even the court said so when they put him in receivership

[DesertDog]

Handgun courses are good for begineer to intermediate.  Rifle class is brutally slow, we shot 43 rounds the first 2 days, with little marksmanship instruction.

[Cyclops WY]

I did a 4 day defensive pistol course at front sight.  It improved my pistol skills by lets say 400%.  I have not taken any other classes from them.  Can you learn something from almost any class?  Most likely yes.  Who's more effective?  The man with 49 guns and one training class, or the man with one gun and 49 training classes under his belt. Easy answer.  I had a good time, and learned a lot.

Appleseed......Rifle instruction.  Completely different.  Apples and Oranges.  Pistol vs Rifle.  I had a great time at my first appleseed.  Improved my rifle skills by lets say 50%.  Over time and practice I have improved my rifle by 200%.  It was easier and faster to see in the pistol course vs appleseed rifle course.  History at appleseed......Frontsight had classes about how to handle the situation after a lethal force encounter, and how to avoid the encounter in the first place.

Two different animals.

Cyclops WY

[ktm525xcatv]

i did take the 4 day defensive handgun there. for the price i paid $125 plus $50 for background check +ammo i think it was ok.
but for 4 days we spent way to much time on safety, malfunctions, drawing and lots of sales pitching for lifetime memberships.
I FEEL LIKE THEY WERE TRYING TO POLISH A TURD WITH SOME THINGS!
We did not shoot past the 15 yard line, i was hoping the would at least spend a little time on longer distances and marksmanship.
considering its in the middle of no where i wish they had a rv park with hookups maybe a hotel also.
I used porta potties on the job i kinda have grown old of those things...wheres the bathrooms?

[Cyclops WY]

Did you pass the course?  I do like that about Front Sight.  You can't advance until you pass the class.  I think they have 4 levels of pistol classes.

As for the sales pitch.......Out one hear and into the person next to me.....

I went for free on a gold members birthday party.  Back to the sales pitch.

Cyclops WY

[ktm525xcatv]

Did you pass the course?  I do like that about Front Sight.  You can't advance until you pass the class.  I think they have 4 levels of pistol classes.

Cyclops WY

Everybody passes(no child left behind?).....but if your a distinguished graduate you get a silver seal on your certificate... I did

[ktm525xcatv]

one thing that did screw me up at front site was being out of work for so long and staying up late all the time
couldn't fall asleep earlier than 11:30 or 12

[DesertDog]

I did a 4 day defensive pistol course at front sight.  It improved my pistol skills by lets say 400%.  I have not taken any other classes from them.  Can you learn something from almost any class?  Most likely yes.  Who's more effective?  The man with 49 guns and one training class, or the man with one gun and 49 training classes under his belt. Easy answer.  I had a good time, and learned a lot.

Appleseed......Rifle instruction.  Completely different.  Apples and Oranges.  Pistol vs Rifle.  I had a great time at my first appleseed.  Improved my rifle skills by lets say 50%.  Over time and practice I have improved my rifle by 200%.  It was easier and faster to see in the pistol course vs appleseed rifle course.  History at appleseed......Frontsight had classes about how to handle the situation after a lethal force encounter, and how to avoid the encounter in the first place.

Two different animals.

Cyclops WY

That is a spot on analysis.  I've been to several FS classes, living 3 hrs away helps.  I've learned something at every one.

I didn't consider the sales pitch for a mambership a hard sell.  It's a video they show at lunch and that's it.  I bought one and got 2 free ones with it, along with 4 free guns.  I sold 3 of the guns and both memberships which almost covered the cost of my membership.  Everytime I go there now, it's on their dime

There are going to be close to 20 Appleeseed instructors there next weekend for my "Birthday Party".  There will be lots of fun and 7th stepping.  I've brought several people to AS while at FS.

[DesertDog]

I almost forgot.  The reason they only shoot to 15 yds is that statistics show that 90% of gun fights take place inside of 7 yds.  They used to go out to 25.  There is a class where they go out to 50.

[Cyclops WY]

Did you pass the course?  I do like that about Front Sight.  You can't advance until you pass the class.  I think they have 4 levels of pistol classes.

Cyclops WY

Everybody passes(no child left behind?).....but if your a distinguished graduate you get a silver seal on your certificate... I did

You have to get the silver certificate to take the next level class.  You can't move on without it.  That's what I was talking about passing the class.

Cyclops

[ktm525xcatv]

Did you pass the course?  I do like that about Front Sight.  You can't advance until you pass the class.  I think they have 4 levels of pistol classes.

Cyclops WY

Everybody passes(no child left behind?).....but if your a distinguished graduate you get a silver seal on your certificate... I did

You have to get the silver certificate to take the next level class.  You can't move on without it.  That's what I was talking about passing the class.

Cyclops

yes i did get it

[Heimdhal]

Brings up a good question:

Have we ever considered doing a "Pistol-Seed?" event.

Might not be a horrible idea...or it might be.

[ktm525xcatv]

Brings up a good question:

Have we ever considered doing a "Pistol-Seed?" event.

Might not be a horrible idea...or it might be.

and machinegun-seed!!

[Taylor]

i did take the 4 day defensive handgun there. for the price i paid $125 plus $50 for background check +ammo i think it was ok.
but for 4 days we spent way to much time on safety Safety is Appleseed rule #1 so please be prepared to revisit this area several times during the Appleseed weekend , malfunctions, drawing and lots of sales pitching for lifetime memberships.
I FEEL LIKE THEY WERE TRYING TO POLISH A TURD WITH SOME THINGS!
We did not shoot past the 15 yard line, i was hoping the would at least spend a little time on longer distances and marksmanship.
considering its in the middle of no where i wish they had a rv park with hookups maybe a hotel also.
I used porta potties on the job i kinda have grown old of those things...wheres the bathrooms?

[ktm525xcatv]

yes safety is important but learning something is important also

[slim]

Brings up a good question:

Have we ever considered doing a "Pistol-Seed?" event.

Might not be a horrible idea...or it might be.

I think we are going to do one... after everyone's been through the rifle portion. Only about 300,000,000 shooters to go!

[Two Wolves]

Pistols and machineguns don't fit in the theme of 1776. Best to set the sails and stay the course, always being mindful of the underlying currents. ~Two Wolves

[Johnnyappleseed]

A buddy told me the "subgun" class is great  
For exactly what reason ,I have no idea  

Did the frontsight program further the gun culture? with regard to self defense,value of private ownership ,political action etc?

[colycat]

I think this idea might be part of the blow up with AS back in 06.  So, been there, done that.

BTW, the pistol is only to get you to your rifle.

Brings up a good question:

Have we ever considered doing a "Pistol-Seed?" event.

Might not be a horrible idea...or it might be.

[vernic82]

....2 day coarse.....

That sounds rough to me

[techres]

I think this idea might be part of the blow up with AS back in 06.  So, been there, done that.

It did.  It was ugly.  It had everything to do with fun shooting and little to do with waking a nation. 

Stay on target...

[sparks1]

....2 day coarse.....

That sounds rough to me

Now this kind of wit I APPRECIATE.

[jerryinoregon]

Kinda like comparing appleseeds to orange seeds.  

Appleseed is an all volunteer program that is ran to teach the history of the beginning of our great country, mixed with a great weekend of marksmanship training and a kick in the butt to get you off the couch and bring your friends out to learn the same level of marksmanship. The instructors might be volunteer but most of them are very professional. And the training is top notch.

Frontsight is a business and as such they try to get repeat business and some of their marketing techniques border on the insane. The paid instructors at frontsight can be less professional then their position entails at times.

Both programs teach marksmanship and safety.

Which is better? Well if you are honest with your self and do everything the instructors tell you you can learn from both. I can't think of a single class that i have attended that i have not learned something new. And if you check with the AS and FS instructors both groups will tell you that even as experienced instructors they still learn new things from each class.

Now i have never attended a rifle course at FS but the handgun courses i believe do have some value. And as a friend of mine says"One mind, any weapon". So learn how to shoot your battle rifle from appleseed( much better value for your money). Learn how to shoot your handgun from frontsight (or me).  And spread the word about the second amendment and the dangers our country faces if we don't wake up our fellow Americans.

You need a full tool box if we're going to fix this country. you can't pack a rifle with you every where you go. so have your handgun so that you can get the fight started and get to your rifle.

Jerry Hennings
Lead Instructor
Triple H Training


Just some notes. I am an NRA firearms safety instructor, NRA basic pistol instructor, Utah Concealed firearms instructor, Appleseed member since '08 and diamond Frontsight member since '09 so i have seen both programs and i love them both.
They do share a common goal and that is preserving the heritage of firearms ownership in our great country.

[DesertDog]

A buddy told me the "subgun" class is great  
For exactly what reason ,I have no idea  

Did the frontsight program further the gun culture? with regard to self defense,value of private ownership ,political action etc?

Front Sight's mission statement is, and I'm paraphrasing a little, "To positively change the image of gun ownership during our lifetime."

If I had not discovered Appleseed, I would have become a Front Sight instructor.  I was looking for something to get involved in.

[techres]

I should have been clear in my previous post.  There are many schools of firearms instruction and thank goodness that is true.  From Suarez, to Frontsight, to Tactical Response and to the thousands of smaller state levels schools let me say, "Thank you!"

America can use all the schools it can have to support as large a gun owning populace as possible.  Each school provides another tool in the tool belt and none eliminates the need, or usefulness of another.

Appleseed has its own special place as a history and heritage program with a superb rifleman's clinic.  That is who we are and what we are and our mission is just that simple.

So as much as we can feed our students up into CMP or off into other schools, that is great as long as they take the 7th step with them.  But our focus must remain as clear and crisp as our eyes are on that front sight blade.

Apples & Oranges all can exist on the same plate.

[ktm525xcatv]

A buddy told me the "subgun" class is great  
For exactly what reason ,I have no idea  

Did the frontsight program further the gun culture? with regard to self defense,value of private ownership ,political action etc?

maybe if you just happen to find a uzi on the side of the road?

[ktm525xcatv]

Brings up a good question:

Have we ever considered doing a "Pistol-Seed?" event.

Might not be a horrible idea...or it might be.

I think we are going to do one... after everyone's been through the rifle portion. Only about 300,000,000 shooters to go!

The population of the United States was counted as 308,745,538.
theres only 8,745,538 anti gun people in the us? i think there is at least that many in NJ and CA.

[Cyclops WY]

ktm525xcatv

How was your first day of instruction?  Hope you had a hoot.

Cyclops WY

[Heimdhal]

Brings up a good question:

Have we ever considered doing a "Pistol-Seed?" event.

Might not be a horrible idea...or it might be.

I think we are going to do one... after everyone's been through the rifle portion. Only about 300,000,000 shooters to go!

The population of the United States was counted as 308,745,538.
theres only 8,745,538 anti gun people in the us? i think there is at least that many in NJ and CA.

Nah, thats jsut the babies.  Well get CA and NJ to learn a thing or two, too.