Author Topic: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch  (Read 10550 times)

Offline JoeZ

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #60 on: November 02, 2010, 08:45:57 PM »
My AR10 has a sight over bore height of 2.75" and is in 308. My zero is set for 250 yards and that comes real close to zero at 25m.
"What is she, that cometh forth as the morning rising, fair as the Moon, elect as the sun, terrible as the army of a camp set in array?" Canticle of Canticles 6:9

Offline PHenry

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #61 on: November 03, 2010, 06:04:27 PM »
JoeZ,
+1 on that
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Offline JoeZ

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #62 on: November 25, 2010, 01:25:47 AM »
LaCrosse on December 4-5.

These full distance shoots are open to red hats, IITs, and riflemen. Go ahead and sign up for Sunday only. You will come away from this not just with practice at full distance but we are going to teach you how to teach KD. We're not just trying to earn an extra patch here. When someone sees your patch they are to understand that you are not teaching from a book but rather from your experience. This is your chance to be some of the most qualified to instruct around.

  The instruction actually starts now with a few simple rules I picked up at the RBC in Osage Beach (many thanks to VAshoter and jmdavis)
1: Do not waste range time with things you can do at home. Check your rifles mechanical functions and properly lubricate. Dry fire, dry fire, and dry fire some more. We tell our shooters this all the time but do we do this ourselves? The more you shoot the more you need to dry fire to catch bad habits as they creep in. Also, try this; dry fire in a totally dark room. Do this for an hour and you will know your trigger intimately.

2: Zero your rifle. For M1As and Garands, zero at 25 meters and you will be zero at 200. AR 15s zero on your 8/3 setting +1 click and you will be zero at 300. For most scoped rifles, zero at 25 will be zero between 250 and 300 depending on your sight height above the bore line. You'll be close enough for the sighters at 200.
"What is she, that cometh forth as the morning rising, fair as the Moon, elect as the sun, terrible as the army of a camp set in array?" Canticle of Canticles 6:9

Offline fepowered

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #63 on: November 26, 2010, 09:47:51 PM »
LaCrosse on December 4-5.

These full distance shoots are open to red hats, IITs, and riflemen. Go ahead and sign up for Sunday only.
We would register as a paid shooter for Sunday?  What distances will be the Course of Fire?
"Today, we need a nation of Riflemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are
willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."

Offline JoeZ

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #64 on: November 27, 2010, 02:27:56 PM »
Red Hats and IIT's can just show up and pay only the range fee (if any). Others will need to pay the one day as a walk-on or preregistered.

The range is the CMP range. I don't really know how far, but it looks like 600yds on Google satellite view.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 03:19:11 PM by JoeZ »
"What is she, that cometh forth as the morning rising, fair as the Moon, elect as the sun, terrible as the army of a camp set in array?" Canticle of Canticles 6:9

Offline Justin

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #65 on: November 27, 2010, 05:42:25 PM »
 For the AR15 zero method. Is the +1 to take into account the fact that you should be zeroing at 30m/36yards for a 300 yard zero?

 

Offline fepowered

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #66 on: November 27, 2010, 06:52:21 PM »
For the AR15 zero method. Is the +1 to take into account the fact that you should be zeroing at 30m/36yards for a 300 yard zero?

Yes, it is.....
Since few people will show up with M855 spec ammo, most will have to adjust their zero when they actually shoot at 300 yds.   Even if your rifle is "zeroed", your chosen sight picture may set you off a bit.  Using the 8/3 +1 method will get you pretty close though.
"Today, we need a nation of Riflemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are
willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."

Offline Castle Mountain

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #67 on: November 27, 2010, 08:00:28 PM »
You certainly place added value to the weekend with this syllubus.
We are so looking forward to your instruction JZ. We found VA shooter
and JMDavis very learned and a real pleasure to listen to. We are
eager to learn so much more. This time I will be doing things
with a .308 and not my .22

Cheers,

CM


LaCrosse on December 4-5.

These full distance shoots are open to red hats, IITs, and riflemen. Go ahead and sign up for Sunday only. You will come away from this not just with practice at full distance but we are going to teach you how to teach KD. We're not just trying to earn an extra patch here. When someone sees your patch they are to understand that you are not teaching from a book but rather from your experience. This is your chance to be some of the most qualified to instruct around.

  The instruction actually starts now with a few simple rules I picked up at the RBC in Osage Beach (many thanks to VAshoter and jmdavis)
1: Do not waste range time with things you can do at home. Check your rifles mechanical functions and properly lubricate. Dry fire, dry fire, and dry fire some more. We tell our shooters this all the time but do we do this ourselves? The more you shoot the more you need to dry fire to catch bad habits as they creep in. Also, try this; dry fire in a totally dark room. Do this for an hour and you will know your trigger intimately.

2: Zero your rifle. For M1As and Garands, zero at 25 meters and you will be zero at 200. AR 15s zero on your 8/3 setting +1 click and you will be zero at 300. For most scoped rifles, zero at 25 will be zero between 250 and 300 depending on your sight height above the bore line. You'll be close enough for the sighters at 200.

Offline JoeZ

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #68 on: November 27, 2010, 09:12:27 PM »
Bring your instuctor manuals. There are some things to add.
"What is she, that cometh forth as the morning rising, fair as the Moon, elect as the sun, terrible as the army of a camp set in array?" Canticle of Canticles 6:9

Offline AFTERMATH

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #69 on: November 28, 2010, 10:59:58 PM »
Hmmm.....
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Offline Wheeler44

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #70 on: November 28, 2010, 11:38:47 PM »
So there really is a "full distance patch"?  How is it different?  

W44

Edit to add;


I saw the pic....
« Last Edit: November 28, 2010, 11:53:09 PM by Wheeler44 »
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Offline FivePoint56

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #71 on: November 29, 2010, 07:21:53 PM »
What is the ammo load out for a KD shoot. 

Offline JoeZ

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #72 on: November 29, 2010, 08:54:13 PM »
Bring what ammo your rifle is zeroed with. Other wise anything will do. For 223 you may want something heavy as we fully intend on using the full 600yds. Bring pens and paper to record your rifles info. jmdavis and tdow both made excellent sheets that can be printed out and stapled into a little booklet.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 09:00:35 PM by JoeZ »
"What is she, that cometh forth as the morning rising, fair as the Moon, elect as the sun, terrible as the army of a camp set in array?" Canticle of Canticles 6:9

Offline JoeZ

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #73 on: November 29, 2010, 09:49:55 PM »
To Wheeler;

There is no official full distance patch. We thought it was a good idea for a few reasons and so made one up. Some shooters get their rifleman patch and we never see them again. This is a way to get them to hear more of what we have to say, more of our 7th step.

Another reason is this. When Appleseed first started it's instructors were uniformly middle aged to older men who had come to Appleseed already veterans of highpower matches, 3 gun matches, and such. It was easy to respect the technical knowledge of the Red Hat. Now, as Appleseed logically draws it's instructors from the shooters that demographic has changed. Here we have teenage men, young men and women, and even grandmas, and the full distance patch is a testament to the quality of Appleseed instruction. It is impressive and reassuring to see "Full Distance" on our instructors, you can't help but think these people know what they're about.
"What is she, that cometh forth as the morning rising, fair as the Moon, elect as the sun, terrible as the army of a camp set in array?" Canticle of Canticles 6:9

Offline Wheeler44

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #74 on: November 30, 2010, 01:35:51 AM »
OK... thanks...

W44
"Appleseed,  putting the second amendment into the hands of American citizens."     -Mrs. Wheeler

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Offline sparks1

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #75 on: November 30, 2010, 07:05:16 PM »
 
  I was looking for lodging for Sat. night only in Stoddard. Watersedge had a vacation home for a really reasonable rate. However it has a 2 night minimum, or the price goes up. It sleeps 8 and the price quoted me was...

 $95.00 for 3 people     add $10.00 per person up to 8. that's if it's booked for 2 nights, otherwise it goes up to $145.00 for one night.

Not a bad looking house and maybe a consideration for future if the instructor corp wants to stay together.

I have no affiliation with this motel by the way.

As it is 3 of us have a rm at the motel. prices are good there also.

See you Sunday.
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Offline M.R.C.

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #76 on: November 30, 2010, 07:38:36 PM »
Would 100 rounds be enough for all KD shooting? That's all I have on hand for my Garand (minus a couple for sighting-in), and my AR-15 is broken.

Is it possible for a guy like me who barely squeaked out a Rifleman score with a scoped .22 to do it at KD with a Mosin Nagant?!? AK-47? SKS? Those are only other center-fires I own with enough ammo on hand to make the La Crosse shoot.........

Offline JoeZ

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #77 on: November 30, 2010, 08:49:38 PM »
100 rounds will be fine. If we get to shoot to 600yds that's 60 rounds. With your list of firearms there the Garand is hands down the best for the ranges and COF involved, a true rifleman's rifle.
"What is she, that cometh forth as the morning rising, fair as the Moon, elect as the sun, terrible as the army of a camp set in array?" Canticle of Canticles 6:9

Offline JoeZ

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #78 on: December 17, 2010, 10:13:07 PM »
Check the original post for a change in the procedure. The penalties are eliminated.
"What is she, that cometh forth as the morning rising, fair as the Moon, elect as the sun, terrible as the army of a camp set in array?" Canticle of Canticles 6:9

Offline dragonfly

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #79 on: February 21, 2011, 01:46:34 PM »
Another KD opportunity, Racine Feb. 26 and 27 2011

Quote from OG,


Earned that Winterseed patch yet?
http://www.appleseedinfo.org/winterseed.html

Don't let this opportunity slip by.

Register here:

http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1210000143

Register now!


D-fly  Keeping the Faith
www.facebook.com/WIAppleseed

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Lead, Follow or Get out of the way - Thomas Paine
Did you talk to someone new about APPLESEED today ?
The United States Constitution.

Offline eyeraker

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #80 on: February 26, 2011, 06:47:25 PM »
I attended the shoot in la crosse in decemeber, but i didnt have a rifle that was capable of shooting KD at the time. I really want to shoot KD next time. Wondering if its appropriate to shoot KD with an AR-15 or would i be putting myself at a huge disadvantage. I also have an M1 carbine, but i doubt that would be very useful past 300. Should i just sell off a bunch of handguns and buy an m1 garand or m1a.

-kyle

Offline 2 clicks low

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #81 on: February 26, 2011, 07:13:38 PM »
I attended the shoot in la crosse in decemeber, but i didnt have a rifle that was capable of shooting KD at the time. I really want to shoot KD next time. Wondering if its appropriate to shoot KD with an AR-15 or would i be putting myself at a huge disadvantage. I also have an M1 carbine, but i doubt that would be very useful past 300. Should i just sell off a bunch of handguns and buy an m1 garand or m1a.

-kyle

Bring the AR. Lots of people shoot KD with AR's, you can too. Bring the carbine too. If nothing else to see exactly what it will shoot. It may supprise you.

2cl
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Offline sparks1

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #82 on: February 26, 2011, 08:54:31 PM »
I'd pick the AR over the M1 carbine, though it would be interesting to see the carbines limits. I doubt it has 400 yd capability and maintain a 4 moa accuracy. It is pretty much a low power rifle round, or a high power pistol round...designed to fill this middle ground.
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Offline AFTERMATH

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #83 on: February 26, 2011, 10:08:05 PM »
I attended the shoot in la crosse in decemeber, but i didnt have a rifle that was capable of shooting KD at the time. I really want to shoot KD next time. Wondering if its appropriate to shoot KD with an AR-15 or would i be putting myself at a huge disadvantage. I also have an M1 carbine, but i doubt that would be very useful past 300. Should i just sell off a bunch of handguns and buy an m1 garand or m1a.<[ :-X ]
 
-kyle

Just ensure you have the proper weight ammo for your rifle's rate of twist.  For example:  55gr - 1/12  |  62gr - 1/7 [your results may vary]
If you've got a 1/9 it should be able to handle both 55g and 62g...  You don't need to penetrate a barrier or anything like that...
So, as long as you're rifle stabilizes the ammo; you'll perferate the paper with ease.
Worse comes to worse, and you've got the the wrong combination:  you still learn something.


Aftermath
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"Tyrants rise and fall, but tyranny lasts forever." -Me

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Offline fepowered

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #84 on: March 07, 2011, 12:20:52 AM »

Just ensure you have the proper weight ammo for your rifle's rate of twist.  For example:  55gr - 1/12  |  62gr - 1/7 [your results may vary]
If you've got a 1/9 it should be able to handle both 55g and 62g...  You don't need to penetrate a barrier or anything like that...
So, as long as you're rifle stabilizes the ammo; you'll perferate the paper with ease.
Worse comes to worse, and you've got the the wrong combination:  you still learn something.
I verified Friday that my Bushmaster 1/9 will handle Hornady 75gr Match ammo which was the only 75gr stuff I could find on short notice.   Using optics I had a sub 2" group at 200yds...   I am going to be ordering a couple boxes of the Wolf 75gr steel case and try that.  So long as it is 4MOA or better, I will be ordering more.      I normally shoot 55gr out to 300+ yds. and 62gr further.  I hunt deer with 64gr.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 12:37:00 AM by fepowered »
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Offline Shooterer

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #85 on: March 07, 2011, 11:27:35 AM »
Aftermath & Fed are correct about bullet weight, 55gr will work out to 300 but after that you need more mass.

When shooting Highpower matches I use 75gr Hornady BTHP at all distances, but some shooters use 80gr at the 600 line. (80gr can not be seated for the standard 2.26" AR mag length and need to be loaded in the rifle by hand singly)

btw: these are 7 1/2 - 8" twist barrels.
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Offline Blue Five

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #86 on: March 07, 2011, 11:30:22 AM »
Do we know if there will be KD at La Crosse in April? 
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Offline siglite

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #87 on: March 07, 2011, 11:41:25 AM »
Aftermath & Fed are correct about bullet weight, 55gr will work out to 300 but after that you need more mass.

When shooting Highpower matches I use 75gr Hornady BTHP at all distances, but some shooters use 80gr at the 600 line. (80gr can not be seated for the standard 2.26" AR mag length and need to be loaded in the rifle by hand singly)

btw: these are 7 1/2 - 8" twist barrels.

I've reliably hit 20" steel @500 with 55gr.  Now, terminal ballistics?  Another creature for sure.  But you can get reliable hits out there.  They're a little more prone to crosswinds, though. :D
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Offline JoeZ

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #88 on: March 07, 2011, 06:57:58 PM »
KD at La Crosse in April? I think its a must considering some pooles may be there. Does anyone have a more urgent need for KD then them? I'm going to do my best to get that done. All we really need is another red hat.
"What is she, that cometh forth as the morning rising, fair as the Moon, elect as the sun, terrible as the army of a camp set in array?" Canticle of Canticles 6:9

Offline Blue Five

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Re: WI KD Opportunities and Full Distance patch
« Reply #89 on: March 07, 2011, 07:02:35 PM »
KD at La Crosse in April? I think its a must considering some pooles may be there. Does anyone have a more urgent need for KD then them? I'm going to do my best to get that done. All we really need is another red hat.

Great!  I think the pooles that were at this weekends shoot would love to do KD.  I know my brother (who is a poole) really wants to do that, and I'm sure the other two would be interested as well.  It will really prepare them.

Plus, I might toss a few rounds down there myself for KD...we'll see  ::)

"Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here!" ~Captain John Parker, April 19, 1775.

Mol?n labe! :---