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AZ - Washington's Birthday Match 2011

Started by AZRedhawk44, February 22, 2010, 11:59:20 PM

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AZbinary

"Not Last!" -AZ AWW 2011

NEWGUY556

#31
Quote from: AZbinary23 on March 31, 2010, 10:00:54 AM
thanks to both of you!
Anytime.

OK I managed to coerce someone into watching my little rascals on the10Th. I have a backup plan if that one falls through as well.
I am in, are we going to meet in front of the tower near where you check in? Would 50 rounds per rifle be sufficient?
I will bring my borrowed LTR that I shot last Sat. and the Centerfire I would like to shoot. We will see how it goes, this rifle needs more break-in.
I would really like to try out that 1907 sling, I have 2 but they are too short for me.

One more observation I have made that I would like to share is that I have watched my POI change by as much as 1moa with changes in light. EX: At WBD Match I had my Rifle zeroed at 200 previously with a COM hold. It was dark, cloudy with occasional rain. My first 2-sighters were in the 8 ring at 6:00. I switched to a 6:00 hold and my 3rd and final sighter was in the x-ring. The opposite happend at the Legacy Match. I was previously zeroed at 200 with 6:00 hold and was hitting 10's and x's with my sighters. By the time we got to the prone slow we had full bright afternoon sun and I was a bit high, so I held off just a touch and got closer to the bull. It very well could have been me, but not so sure.
:wb: Edit the above is a bad habit, focusing on the target instead of the front sight.
Sorry If I jacked the thread again, but when I have a thought I need to write it down or I forget.
RWVA, Rifleman
Dangerous Middle Aged Man
Gun up...Send it....... HIT!

AZRedhawk44

No need for a .22 if you don't mind shooting your centerfire at 25 yards for warm-up.  We aren't going to worry about adjusting sights at 25... we're looking for sub-6MOA groups from standing unsupported before we run a target down to 200, though.

I think 50 rounds will be plenty.

I'll be toting my M14.  I've had second thoughts about bringing a dummy stock.  We're not the RSO's for the public range, and while technically it's a safe device and not a rifle by any stretch, I don't want to ruffle any feathers or cause concern by having us practice positions with something that, to an observer 25 yards away, might look like an uncased rifle.

So, I'll bring my M9107 sling and we'll see if it fits on your rifle.

http://snipersparadise.com/marksmanship/installsling.htm

You're shooting a Garand?  You're installing it as shown in this link, right?  I've never heard of an M1907 not fitting on a Garand.

NEWGUY556

#33
Quote from: AZRedhawk44 on March 31, 2010, 08:52:15 PM
No need for a .22 if you don't mind shooting your centerfire at 25 yards for warm-up.  We aren't going to worry about adjusting sights at 25... we're looking for sub-6MOA groups from standing unsupported before we run a target down to 200, though. Ok I follow you. I will just bring my Garand and a bit more ammo.
I think 50 rounds will be plenty.

I'll be toting my M14.  I've had second thoughts about bringing a dummy stock.  We're not the RSO's for the public range, and while technically it's a safe device and not a rifle by any stretch, I don't want to ruffle any feathers or cause concern by having us practice positions with something that, to an observer 25 yards away, might look like an uncased rifle. I agree.

So, I'll bring my M9107 sling and we'll see if it fits on your rifle. Thanks

http://snipersparadise.com/marksmanship/installsling.htm

You're shooting a Garand?  You're installing it as shown in this link, right?  I've never heard of an M1907 not fitting on a Garand.
Yep, it fits the rifle just fine, but it is too tight once I get my arm in the loop. I can't get into position with it on.  I have one that is 1-1/4" wide that came with the rifle in question. I measured it and it is 48". I know they make one that is 52" I think that is what I need, just would like to try it out before I throw down 50+ for a sling. The other is a 1" Uncle Mikes cheapy that I picked up for my 24/47 mauser, I have the same problem with that one. Hasty style works fine but I prefer the loop. I will bring the one I have, even though I buggered it up a bit, you can check it out. Maybe I am doing something wrong
RWVA, Rifleman
Dangerous Middle Aged Man
Gun up...Send it....... HIT!

AZbinary

The 1907 sling is great for the loop, but I prefer the canvas adjustable for the hasty.  I have no issue with the "short" or "Long" 1907 on any of my garands, I think the difference is like 2 inches.

M
"Not Last!" -AZ AWW 2011

AZRedhawk44

I've got two Turner 1907's:  A synthetic "biothane" one that I got for my AR, and a more traditional leather one for my M14.  Then I have an inexpensive MRT leather one that I've stretched out a bit that doesn't seem quite right any more, and a cheapy but serviceable one I found at Cabelas for $25 one day, on a sporterized Mosin 91/30.

I'll bring the cheapy one on the Mosin, the synthetic Turner, and my good Turner on my M14.

I don't care for the synthetic Turner one... the material grabs at itself and is a PITA to "open" the sling up.  I'll bring it so you can see what I mean.  I guess it isn't likely to slip since it's so grippy, but I've never had a problem with a leather loop falling down on my arm anyways.

Both the Turners are the longer models, though I have cut the leather one to fit my M14.  The other one is still uncut though.

Big O

Damn! If AZredhawk, AZgrommit and AZRon didn't do such a fantastic job teaching me how to shoot back in Nov 09 at the Buckeye AS, I would not have been invited to join a newly formed team earlier this year or ordered a new AR-15 match rifle last week. You guys planted a seed and it is still growing. We shot as a team at the 118th and at Rio. I seen AZredhawk in Lane 1 at Rio but I missed the opportunity to chat with him. If I were not already commited, I'd be applying for a spot on the Appleseed Team. 

I just wanted you Appleseeders to know that you got my respect and support out here in NW Tucson even though we are now competing against each other. You haven't seen me lately because there always seems to be a team match and an AS clinic happening on the same weekend. I continue to encourage the people I know to check out your organization and I go as far as to offer to take them, equip them and put them up in my RV. No takers so far, but I'll keep trying. On a positive note, I am getting them out to the range and sharing the message.
Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth. George Washington

AZOpie

I just came from Ben Avery - it was pretty crowded when I got there at 1:00, so I would expect this weekend to be just as busy if not more so. Only got a couple hours in, but it's better than none. I guess people are trying to get their shooting in before it warms up. I will have a leather sling on my AR-15 in case anyone wants to experience that as well.

NEWGUY556

#38
I thought our first practice was quite productive. I was able to identify a bad habit  :wb: and with a few more dry fire sessions I will break it.  O0
Many thanks to Redhawk for bringing extra slings for me to try out, and then for letting the one I like go for a good buddy price.
May be kinda hard for me to do another one in May, since Mrs NEWGUY has made many plans for that month  ~~:) and I am pretty much out of M2 Ball. I will see how it plays out.
Redhawk and his M1A/M14 were quite impressive. There was a drastic difference between the Legacy Match and today's practice. Watch out come Feb 2011.  :---
Opie was impressive as well, but that deserves a seperate thread. I am sure Redhawk will handle that.
Finally, My good friend that I brought, "B" showed alot of improvement once he switched from a carbine to a rifle. I will continue to mentor him, and see if I can't get him to another Appleseed, and help him earn his patch.
Thanks to all who showed up, I think there will be a great "payday" for the program if we persist and deliver on the firing line when that day comes.

PS: We are still looking to fill teams, it is not too late to get in. We have alot of time to get some new people up to speed between now and Feb. 2011.
RWVA, Rifleman
Dangerous Middle Aged Man
Gun up...Send it....... HIT!

AZOpie

NEWGUY -

It was great getting together to practice today - GREAT people to be around! I might have some Lake City 30.06 out in the garage I can supply if needed for another practice - lemme check. It's been a long time since I shot a Garand, but I believe there's some leftovers out there, probably LC match....

John

NEWGUY556

Quote from: AZOpie on April 11, 2010, 12:52:32 AM
NEWGUY -

It was great getting together to practice today - GREAT people to be around! I might have some Lake City 30.06 out in the garage I can supply if needed for another practice - lemme check. It's been a long time since I shot a Garand, but I believe there's some leftovers out there, probably LC match....

John
I have to agree with you regarding the character of our group.
As far as ammo, The CMP cut me off until I get a new RWVA membership card, so as soon as that comes in the mail I will be good to go. It takes 30-60 days though from the time you order until the time you recieve it.
If you did find some LC M2 ball (especially match) that you no longer had a use for I would be happy to purchase it from you. Thanks for offering.
RWVA, Rifleman
Dangerous Middle Aged Man
Gun up...Send it....... HIT!

AZOpie

Found it - got 3 boxes of 1962 LC Match M72 - 173 grains, 2640 FPS. I will bring it up to Payson next weekend. Ammo was bought with blood, sweat , and tears - your cost is to keep seeding....

NEWGUY556

Quote from: AZOpie on April 11, 2010, 01:18:51 PM
Found it - got 3 boxes of 1962 LC Match M72 - 173 grains, 2640 FPS. I will bring it up to Payson next weekend. Ammo was bought with blood, sweat , and tears - your cost is to keep seeding....
Deal, and thanks. I will see you saturday morning in Payson.
RWVA, Rifleman
Dangerous Middle Aged Man
Gun up...Send it....... HIT!

AZRedhawk44

Gents, it was a pleasure to meet up and shoot with you.  I think we're gonna have a great team for Feb-11.

I found a foible that I need working on as well... after all, if you're not going to the range with some sort of purpose, then you are just making noise.

I was going to propose a May date for another Saturday AM get-together, but I'm waiting to hear back on an item on the honey-do list as well as a potential Appleseed on the 29/30 weekend.

Tentatively thinking the 1st, 8th or 22nd as potentials.  If you can't make it, then dry-fire practice will have to make do.

I propose the next session focuses on the 200 yard reduced-bull 600 yard, or the MR-52 target.  This will be PRECISE practice, breaking position each shot and then rebuilding NPOA, and getting a rock-solid zero for our rifles and ammo.

Everyone chime in with weekend availability, and if you can't make it, then find someone else to hit the range with.

(PS:  Fred, we didn't just screw around with High Power games while we were there... we also made a Rifleman!) O0

NEWGUY556

I can do the 15th for sure but that date was not mentioned. The 22nd is a possibility.
If it winds up that more people can do a different date, I will try to find someone to entertain my little ones for a couple hours.
I look forward to having a go at the 600 reduced. That one mocks me, but not for too much longer.
BTW- I have not been able to find a local source for the 300 and 600 reduced targets. Creedmore sells them but you have to buy 100. It would take a lifetime for me to go through that many. Anybody interested in a group buy?
RWVA, Rifleman
Dangerous Middle Aged Man
Gun up...Send it....... HIT!

AZRedhawk44

I'm going to order a pack of those as well as the 300/200 reduced targets once my April 16th paycheck hits.  I had a few of the 200y targets sitting around in the garage already.

I'll gladly split the cost of the order with you, or anyone else if they want to.  If not... no skin off my nose.  Targets is targets, and they all end up getting holes punched in 'em eventually.

AZOpie

I would like to have a full compliment of the targets for the Feb 2011 match on hand - I'm only 20 minutes from Ben Avery and never know when I might be able to squeeze a practice in - it would be good to have a full set available for those times when I can sneak over to the range, as well as scheduled shoots. A group buy might be just the ticket.

So far I am pretty open on the weekends in May for practice, but I do have to get Jesse's scouting schedule so that I can make sure there are no conflicts there - I don't think there will be but I never know till I see the schedule. Gotta do some fishing with a buddy that month, MUST get a camping trip in (Who else camps? That's got possibilities too for shooting), if the last weekend comes thru in May for Kingman I would like to participate, so it's gonna be a busy month!

AZRedhawk44

Fishing?  Camping?  Shooting?  All at once?

:'(  :bow:  :---

I love Appleseeders.   :)

I even know of a place to go if June is more to your taste, and it won't be unbearable.  Actually, it would be downright pleasant.

AZOpie

#48
I'm up for a campout anytime this summer, would be great to do a weekend with the team(s) / families. Of course I'm still going in May as well.  :))

We usually go to the same area (near Stoneman Lake) for our family camping, but I am looking to shake that up this year. I have a little 12' aluminum boat setup if there's a lake in the vicinity. My main requirements for camping are:

1. Not on holiday weekends (we leave town to get away from the crazies, not join them out in the sticks).
2. Out of the heat.
3. Generally not in improved campgrounds (see item 1).
4. Shooting friendly.

This could be a golden opportunity to get more of the shooters together from around the state and get some practice in together - possibly run a mini match to run through the COF for February. I also like the idea of getting the rest of my family more involved with the good people here.

AZRedhawk44

Up towards Alpine there's a nice little fishin' lake called Black Lake.  Probably 30 degrees cooler than the valley.

In the mountains above Alpine there's a little place called Hannigan's Meadow.  Back behind the meadow about 15 miles is a series of forest roads that go way back in there.  Several places to set up some 200-300 yard firing lines, and the Black River runs back there too.  Looks like good fly-fishing country, though I've yet to fish up there.  Or, you can drop off the Rim onto "Devil's Highway" towards Clifton and there are some HUGE, OPEN swathes of land to do true 600+ yard shooting if you're so inclined.  Not sure about the fishing down that way, though.

I've been elk hunting up there (only saw deer and antelope), bear hunting up there (only saw elk and antelope) and antelope hunting (only saw bear), and it's a beautiful part of the state.

AZOpie

Always wanted to go up to Hannigan's, just haven't gotten there yet - sounds like this is the year. I love to fish rivers and streams, but haven't gotten into fly fishing yet, something about that hook flying around makes me nervous. No need to twist my arm to get me to go.  &)

NEWGUY556

With enough notice I could probably shanghi my wife into an Appleseed team builder camping trip. My boys would be totally up for it. Camping, shooting, fishing etc.. whatever. At this point we would need to think June sometime for us to make it. She has something booked for just about every weekend in June. I will see how she feels about it and report back.

I have good knowledge of the area between Williams and Flagstaff off I-40. If there was any interest. Never been to Hannigan's meadow, but always wanted to go.

We could figure a 4-way split on targets, and I would be willing to order them. Let me know.
RWVA, Rifleman
Dangerous Middle Aged Man
Gun up...Send it....... HIT!

AZOpie

I assume you meant July. I have a commitment for 7-14 thru 7-18 with Jesse and the Boy Scouts for their summer camp up by Springerville. Staying away from 7/3-4, so that leaves 7/10-11, 7/24-25, and 7/31-8/1. Dang the weekends fill up fast! I'm in on the targets!

Sure is quiet from our shooters from the southern half. Do we need to look at the map to find a location more central everybody?

AZRedhawk44

Hannigan's Meadow is 5-6 hours from the PHX valley.

GoogleEarth says Sierra Vista is about 4:45 from Alpine.  Given the fact that I've actually driven Hwy 191 between Alpine and Clifton (a.k.a. Devil's Highway) and you average about 25MPH on parts of it... I'd call it closer to 6 hours.

We're looking at an Appleseed in Kingman on 7/24-25.  It isn't officially scheduled yet, but it is in the works.

July 10/11 sounds nice, or 7/31-8/1.

NEWGUY556

Quote from: AZOpie on April 13, 2010, 12:06:30 PM
I assume you meant July. I have a commitment for 7-14 thru 7-18 with Jesse and the Boy Scouts for their summer camp up by Springerville. Staying away from 7/3-4, so that leaves 7/10-11, 7/24-25, and 7/31-8/1. Dang the weekends fill up fast! I'm in on the targets!

Sure is quiet from our shooters from the southern half. Do we need to look at the map to find a location more central everybody?

I meant May but typed June. My fingers do one thing when I am thinking another.

BTW- I checked out the targets at Creedmore. http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/home.php?cat=309 I will handle this, but would like to let Democracy rule here: Repair centers are cheaper than full targets. I am a cheapskate, and would do the repair centers instead of full targets. What do you guys think? Basically if you can't keep your shots in the black there will be trouble seeing where the shots landed on the shotup cardboard backers. Let me know, I will order today.  O0
RWVA, Rifleman
Dangerous Middle Aged Man
Gun up...Send it....... HIT!

AZRedhawk44

Repair centers are good.

Make sure you get these ones though:  SR, MR-52 and SR-42.  Those are the ones reduced for 200 yards.  If they don't make just repair centers for those, then let's get the full ones.  Split 3 ways, it won't be too expensive, especially if we only use 1-2 targets per practice session. 

We might want the actual 600y ones for our summer camping trip if we do it... I can find 600 yards back there for us to play with.


NEWGUY556

Ordered. Cost with Shipping was 52.09. I threw in some black pasters too. Better than masking tape and sharpie pen.  :~
RWVA, Rifleman
Dangerous Middle Aged Man
Gun up...Send it....... HIT!

AZOpie

#57
Quote from: NEWGUY556 on April 13, 2010, 10:07:07 PM
Ordered. Cost with Shipping was 52.09. I threw in some black pasters too. Better than masking tape and sharpie pen.  :~


As long as AZRH is along I'm good with masking tape and sharpies - although he misses coloring it in a bit.

AZRedhawk44

#58
lol

Tara "made" me take Wednesday off to go shooting with her.  Forced me to. ~~:)

We went to Rio Salado and she shot my LTR at squares/redcoats/AQT's.  Un-timed, she's shooting 210-220 or so now.  She wouldn't let me time her, but I think she'll get to the Riflewoman stage by this weekend.

I did slowfire prone single-loading with my M14.  43 rounds downrange on the 200 yard "SR" target (since that's the only ones I have right now).  I had two different loads with me.  The second load shot lower but tighter, so I'll use that in the future.

While adjusting sights, I noticed my sight screws had come loose.  I fixed that and finished off my straggler cartridges of the first load, getting my windage right.  I think some of the windage variation from that load could be from the rear sight rattling around due to the loose screw.  Still more vertical variation than I'd like though.  Then I started in on my second load.

Once I was sighted in, I did a group of 10 and a group of 15 with the second load, single-loading each cartridge.  Got 4 X's and another 11 10's, though the scoring rings are much more generous on the SR target than the MR-52 we're supposed to use.

Total score on the SR target from prone, single-load, with all errors from sighting in, was 397/430 - 6X.  If I were to shoot 20 rounds prone, using the load I'm sighted in for, now that the rifle is sighted properly for 200 yards... I'd guess I'd shoot about a 195 - 8X on the SR target or a 170 - 4X on the MR-52 target.  My groups are about a 3.5 minute 10-shot string.

AZOpie

#59
Quote from: AZRedhawk44 on April 16, 2010, 12:34:46 PM
lol

Tara "made" me take Wednesday off to go shooting with her.  Forced me to. ~~:)


You have a keeper there - gotta love a woman that forces you to go to the range.

Sounds like you are both getting dialed in. I will be meeting with a friend up north to work up the correct loads for my rifle (when I get it), then I should be able to get dialed in for the match. For now it's just working on the fundamentals...