OK, let's get this started properly, right now.
We have 364 days left to plan and DOMINATE the Ben Avery Washington's Birthday Match.
This is a 7th step intensive fire mission, Arizona!
We've had a hard time getting in on the Ben Avery Schedule. I intend to educate their range to just exactly what they're missing out on. The Washington's Birthday Match is held at a MEASLY 200 yards. 50 rounds. 10 standing, 10 seated/kneeling, 10 rapid prone and 20 slowfire prone. It's a QDAQT with a "standard" 4th stage rather than doubling it... and at a wimpy 200 yards!
A morning stretch, for an Appleseed Rifleman! O0
I want to enter 3 teams for Arizona:
1 - Arizona Appleseed Instructor Corps
---AZRedhawk44
---Lysander6
---AZbinary23
---(open)
2 - Arizona Appleseed Rifleman Corps
---chrisknox
---newguy556
---(open)
---(open)
3 - Arizona Appleseed Juniors Team
---(open)
---(open)
---(open)
---(open)
This is a COMMITMENT, Arizona! We will meet monthly and PRACTICE as a TEAM. We will learn to spot one another's particular foibles on 6 steps, NPOA, steady hold factors and so on. We can practice 200 yards at Ben Avery, Rio Salado and Buckeye on demand. Payson also offers 200+ yards, those of you in Kingman have that wonderful 1000 yard range available to you for practice, and Sierra Vista goes to at least 400 yards but my memory wants to insist it goes to at least 500.
The big challenge we will all face is shooting from standing at 200 yards rather than 100. I'm sure we 'Seeders can figure out how to do that, though. ;)
Here's the website for the event:
http://washingtonsbirthdayriflematch.org/
Here's a link to the 2010 Rulebook:
http://washingtonsbirthdayriflematch.org/Wash-Bdy-main-program-2010.pdf
Right now, I'm looking for 3 voices... We're required to have team captains for each team.
Here, I'll show you how it works: I'll be the team captain for the Instructor team. Now I need 3 more team members, with funny-colored hats. If it's orange right now, don't worry: It'll be a nice dusty/used red by next February.
Chris, you shot the 2010 match... will you be team captain for the Rifleman's team?
Hoss, would your one or both of your boys be interested in helping put together a youth team?
I'll be pitching this at EVERY Appleseed in AZ going forward until we have full teams. If interest is there, I'd love to put together a lady's team as well. Otherwise, women are certainly welcome to throw their hats in the ring for the other 3 teams. We'll close the books for new team members probably around October. We'll be sure to hold an Appleseed a week or two prior to the match to make certain all participants are in tip-top shape, too.
Here ya go, Fred... dual-wielding clown bats!
(http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2006/08/dead-rising-xbox-360-clown.jpg)
AZ, let's storm Ben Avery in 2011 and show them how Appleseed makes Riflemen!
I'd like to point out...
They use NRA score targets that have a high score of 10 per shot, with an "x" much like our "v" ring used for ties.
The top 10 shooters shot from 488 (17x) to 474 (7x). That's roughly equivalent to a 240 AQT score. Those top shooters are certainly ace-ing their rapid prone and slow prone, doing really dang good on their seated and shooting at least 9's on their standing. My best AQT so far is a 232, so I need 8 more points to be barking at their heels. I can find 8 points in 11 months. ;)
The "x" on a 200 yard NRA bull is 13" across for the 9-ring, or 6.5 minutes of angle. The 10-ring is about 6.5 inches across, or 3.25 minutes, and the "x" ring is about 2 inches across, or 1 minute.
Our targets are irregular shaped, but our V-ring is about 4.5 minutes of angle at 100 yards, 2.25 at 200 yards, 1.5 at 300 yards and ~1 at 400 yards.
I will provide the ACTUAL targets we will use for known distance practice for this endeavor.
I'd like our first practice to be in early April, 2 weeks before the April 17-18 events.
I'm in. This is a great approach. And after my sad performance this past weekend, I'm ready to buckle down.
Indulge me a moment to harp on the history of this event. Sunday was the 118th annual. That makes it the oldest continuously running rifle match in the US. All those famous and fancy matches back east in places like Camp Perry and Creedmoor were interrupted by various trivialities like a depression, a couple of world wars and other unpleasantness. The Zonies kept shooting through all that. We can talk about the relationship between the Territorial Rifle Team and the Arizona state flag some other time.
Where do we meet and when? I suspect we're scattered around. Maybe a rotating schedule between north (Ben Avery), east (Rio Salado? Tucson??), south (Poenix Rod & Gun?) and west (Buckeye). I have potential recruits in Flagstaff and Tucson. I'm in north Phoenix and would love to see Ben Avery become as lively with Appleseed as Buckeye has.
I would be interested.
The Match was shot at 200 but for the Prone stages it was on reduced targets. 300 rapid 600 slow. I was not prepared for that. I need more practice. There was alot of talent on the line at that match.
I wore my Appleseed shirt (As Long as I could, it was cold) and if I did my job right I will have recruited 2 shooters for the March Buckeye Appleseed.
AZGromit and I have been rotating around the 3 ranges on the perimeter of the Valley on a monthly cycle. Buckeye, Ben Avery and Rio Salado. We've been working with IIT's and enthusiastic Appleseeders, working 6 steps, steady hold factors and NPOA.
I'd like to continue that cycle, if that's okay with you guys.
If we hear team member requests from up in Kingman or down towards Tucson, I'd like to get those ranges in on the schedule. It's a couple hours of commute, but it's only once a month and once every few months since we have 3 ranges in the Valley on the rotation.
Chris, would you be captain of the Rifleman team? You and newguy556 make 2 so far... need to find two more and possibly 1 alternate just in case.
I had initially postulated that we should meet 2 weeks before the April 17-18 nation-wide April 19th Appleseed push. Unfortunately, that's Easter weekend. The weekend prior we have an Appleseed in Buckeye. So, that leaves April 10-11 for a first meeting. I propose Saturday, at Ben Avery, right after the early morning crunch. About 10 or 11 AM. We'll need to be sure we get on the center 200 yard section of the firing line. We probably only need 1 lane for the lot of us.
Chris, can you confirm that the targets shot for score are the SR, the MR-52 and the SR-42?
SR - Standing, seated:
http://www.nationaltarget.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=NT&Product_Code=SR++%28priced+per+50%29&Category_Code=HPR
MR-52 - Slow prone:
http://www.nationaltarget.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=NT&Product_Code=MR-52+%28priced+per+100%29&Category_Code=HPR
SR-42 - Rapid prone:
http://www.nationaltarget.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=NT&Product_Code=SR-42++%28priced+per+50%29&Category_Code=HPR
I'll order appropriate targets once we know for certain that these are what we want.
http://www.tngbbs.com/rifle/nra/hp/Section4.html
Quote4.3 200 Yard Targets
(a) No. SR Military "Target, Rifle, Competition, Short Range."
Aiming Black (inches) Rings in White (inches)
X ring 3.00 8 ring 19.00
10 ring 7.00 7 ring 25.00
9 ring 13.00 6 ring 31.00
5 ring 37.00
(b) NRA No. SR-42-Reduction of the SR-3 target to simulate the 300-
yard stage of the National Match Course at 200 yards.
Aiming Black (inches) Rings in White (inches)
X ring 1.90 7 ring 16.56
10 ring 4.56 6 ring 20.56
9 ring 8.56 5 ring 24.56
8 ring 12.56
(c) NRA No. MR-52-Reduction of the MR-1 target to simulate the
600-yard stage of the National Match Course at 200 yards.
Aiming Black (inches) Rings in White (inches)
X ring 1.79 6 ring 15.79
10 ring 3.79 5 ring 19.79
9 ring 5.79
8 ring 7.79
7 ring 11.79
I'll captain the Rifleman team. Just confirmed that those are the targets. Got this from Bill Poole who has been running the WBM as long as anyone can remember:
Quoteyes those are the targets, all you need is 12" circle at 200 or 6" at 100 yds to practice the positions since all you care about is small group, not score.
honestly for practice I do not at all recommend going to the pudlic range and practicing, I STRONGLY recommend getting out to the club matches and SHOOTING practice matches. There is something going on almost EVERY weekend in phoenix, for instance this coming saturday will be PRGC
the 200 yd M1/C&R matches at Rio Salado are good practice for 200 yd only.
the other thing to do is DRY FIRE at home, in your living room
I see lots of folks at the public range and tell them to come to a club shoot and they say "I'm not good enough yet" well they WON'T GET GOOD ENUF unless they get out and shoot in match format with other match shooters to learn from at the club practice matches!
see you on the line!
Poole
He has a point. It might be a good outreach for Appleseeders to talk with both the unwashed and those who are already dabbling in the highpower game. Appleseed is some of the best basic instruction anyone could ask for and while I'm as bored as anyone with the equipment race, there's nothing wrong with working inside an existing system.
I hear ya, and we do need to attend some matches to get accustomed to the format, as well as the sling-less standing shooting.
However, I have a dozen Appleseeds between now and then. There go 25% of my weekends already. Same with most other instructors on the instructor team. Matches may overlap with Appleseeds, much like the 2010 Washington's Birthday Match overlapped with Buckeye this year.
We also may find we need to practice particular positions more than others. Can't do that at a match, but we can do that informally at the range or dry-fire at home or informally out in the desert.
I'm interested, though I've never shot in a match before, and I am in the southeast side of Tucson...just about as far as you can get from Phoenix metro and still be called Tucson...and a year is a long time away..many things can pop up between now and then,
But I'm definetly interested...
M
I can Make it to Avery on April 10th. I am willing to get there before the range opens and wait in line to get a table. Just let me know if that is what you want me to do.
I have had more meaningful conversations with people about Appleseed at Matches than I have had anywhere else. I think having an Appleseed presence at even local practice matches could be great for recruiting.
Sometime in April there is supposed to be another "CMP" type match at Buckeye. They have not announced a date yet. The last one was at 100yrds on reduced targets. They pretty much let you use whatever Rifle you wanted to.
AZRedhawk,
Plug me into the Instructor Team for the Match. By next year, I project four total RWVA Redhats in the Sierra Vista Appleseed area (myself and three others). I will put out feelers for competitors and training monthly down here.
Great idea and terrific push on the seventh step.
OK, azbinary and lysander6:
You're both on the instructor team. Team rosters are in the opening post of this thread. We can create more teams if interest is high enough. We can do a south-AZ instructor team and a phoenix-AZ instructor team if we have enough bodies and travel between metro areas becomes onerous.
Let's add a Tucson range to the rotation. You gents know the area better than me. Does the range out towards Three Points have 200 yards for practice? Shall we set that one for May?
This would also be a great opportunity to get some time to pitch Appleseed for the Tucson area for 2011. Meet the rangemaster at Three Points and see if they have interest in an Appleseed or three, next year.
"The big challenge we will all face is shooting from standing at 200 yards rather than 100. I'm sure we 'Seeders can figure out how to do that, though."
Its a great big target, and its all in the technique(a shooting jacket helps) In 4 months I brought my score up 12 points. I would be happy to share what I know with the team.
Since we were talking about Practice:
http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions/WGames_Flyer.pdf The match falls on the same date as an Appleseed at Buckeye but there are JCG and Vintage Military matches after that as well as the Creedmore cup, Highpower clinic and Practice match. I belive the practice match will go the full 600 rather than reduced.
http://www.members.cox.net/azjrhp/2010%20legacy.doc This match is the Weekend before the March Buckeye Appleseed, and is the exact format as the Washingtons Birthday match. I plan on doing the March Appleseed so I don't know if I can get my kitchen pass approved for both weekends, may pass on the match.
If it is not proper for me to post this here please let me know.
Just an FYI and I'm certain most folks here know this, but High Power has silly rules when it comes to rifles that are eligible to compete with.
A 20 pound AR-15 with a hidden free-float tube and 1/4 MOA click aperture sights is legal (even though that was never a "service rifle").
A 6 pound M4gery with an Aimpoint and an accessory rail handguard is typically not (even though that's a "service rifle" now) allowed to compete, and if it is, it must be in a different division.
http://washingtonsbirthdayriflematch.org/Wash-Bdy-main-program-2010.pdf
Quote18. RIFLES: (8mm or less centerfire):
- US service rifle (AR-15, M14/M1A, M1 per NRA/CMP service rifle rules)
- Vintage Military Bolt Rifle (Springfield, Mauser, Enfield, Mosin-Nagant etc in as-issued condition)
- John C Garand (M1 rifle or M1 Carbine per CMP rules)
- Foreign Service Rifle (AK, HK, FAL etc in as-issued condition)
- M4-gery (action shooting or tactical weight and style semi-auto carbine/rifle, OPTICS permitted!) (no "space gun" match rifles)
- Other Rifles may be approved by match director.
I plan on shooting my Armscorp M14 national match rifle... the only oddity about it is it will soon be mounted in a synthetic "supermatch" style stock rather than the wooden "supermatch" style stock it's currently in. If that rifle is broken/unavailable/illegal to use, then my fall-back will be a Cavalry Arms CAV-15 with a White Oak A2 "service rifle" upper on it. Both rifles use simple GI cotton slings.
All four members of a team must have rifles that match the particular category your captain enters you into... If your team captain enters the team in the John C Garand division, you can't run your AR-15 in there. Your Appleseed LTR is not eligible, nor is your tricked out personalized rifle that you might "muster on the green" with. Unless you have odd tastes in muster-on-the-green gear.
I plan to enter my team into the "US Service Rifle" category: M1 Garand, M1A/M14 and AR-15 category. If you don't have one of these rifles right now, try to beg/borrow/buy one in the next 6-9 months so you have several months to practice with it and get familiar. An AR-15 basic lower with a White Oak match upper will set you back about $900 or so and is the cheapest and most mechanically accurate option. Also viable is the M1 Garand from CMP, though you risk getting bottom of the barrel at this point from what I understand, and it might need a new barrel and gunsmith attention above the regular $500-$600 CMP fees, for a total investment of about $1000. Just the White Oak upper will cost about $600 or so and if you have another style AR-15 is the cheapest way to get a serviceable rifle for this event.
If I cannot fill my roster with "US Service Rifle" shooters, then I am open to moving to the "Vintage Military Bolt Rifle" category. I have a Mosin Nagant 91/30 that is a pretty solid performer. Farthest I've shot it so far is 300 yards but it could be trusted to ruin a pumpkin on every shot. Any string of fire that exceeds 10 rounds starts to really heat that barrel up and create mirage, though. I'd prefer to stay in US Service Rifle unless it cannot be avoided.
Chris, what category will your team be entered into?
Lysander6, do you have a suitable rifle? I understand your clan is of the FAL persuasion. Do we need to trade some PM's/emails to find out what all we will shoot on the instructor team?
AZRon, you mentioned wanting in on either the Instructor or the Rifleman team. Which one, and what rifle(s) do you have that are eligible for competition?
My team consisted of 1-M1Garand ,1-M1A, 1- AR-15, 1-M4gery. They only thing I read in the rules was no match guns (F-class) and M4 shooters could not use slings or coats but they could use optics.
I am pretty sure you can mix and match. I saw some Mausers teamed up with AR's. They seemd pretty relaxed about the rules, they did not check any of our rifles. The CMP does.
I just emailed the match director for clarification, newguy556.
If it helps, I have 3 M-1 Garands suitable for use, and two other "iffy" ones, an M1917, and a VZ-24 Mauser in the bolt category, as well as the ubiquitous "M-Forgery" with either an EOTECH or regular aperture sights. Any word on M-1 Carbines? I know we're getting near the end of their velocity curve at 200 yards, but my wife may be interested if she doesn't have to shoot a full size rifle. I have 3 of those suitable for use as well...and An M-14SA on order, in stock configuration.
Binary- I am pretty sure that it was open to any vintage military type rifle. M1 carbine was mentioned. I would not even consider the M4, my buddy got creamed with his. Without the sling you eliminate any benefit you would get from a lighter rifle and optic. I would go so far to say that any Mil-surp Bolt gun would be a better choice. The only exception being for a smaller statured shooter.
Also I had a lady on my team, she was actually our team captain, who I am trying to get to an Appleseed. If we had interest in a ladies team
it may help me sway her into running the ladies team. She had the 2nd Highest score on our team. I will keep working on that.
Redhawk- The top 15 shooters were all shooting AR-15 match guns. With the freefloat Barrels etc.. As much as I think the M1A is a superior Rifle, I would rather see you in the shootoff at the end. Just my opinion though.
Gents,
Yes, we are a FAL clan here in the local area but I am able to field either a Garand or mousegun for the event. Did I read correctly in the post above that slings are not allowed on mouse guns?
Slings are not allowed on AR-15 Carbines AKA M4rgeries. They are Allowed on the full size (20") Rifles that have the A2 upper receiver and the fixed stock.
Quote from: NEWGUY556 on February 26, 2010, 09:00:29 PM
Since we were talking about Practice:
...
http://www.members.cox.net/azjrhp/2010%20legacy.doc This match is the Weekend before the March Buckeye Appleseed, and is the exact format as the Washingtons Birthday match. I plan on doing the March Appleseed so I don't know if I can get my kitchen pass approved for both weekends, may pass on the match.
Let's try to field a team for this, just to see where we all stand.
My M14 is in less-than-optimal state right now so I will be attending with my franken-AR-15:
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p17/azredhawk44/AR-15/100_0565.jpg)
I'll be running 62gr factory ammo, like I've been shooting for the last several KD sessions out in the desert with Gromit.
I need 3 more shooters. March 20th. Registration/squadding at 7:30AM, match starts at 8AM. $25 per shooter/$100 per team. Once I get 3 names who commit to this, I'll file our team entrance and send a check for $100... I'll need $25 from each of you guys once we all arrive at the match.
Who's in?
March 20th Legacy High Power Rifle Match-AZRedhawk44
-(open)
-(open)
-(open)
Also:
If I don't hear from the rest of a team by Friday, I can't send in the paperwork until the week of March 15. I'll be out of town Appleseeding all week at WSMR.
I am already on a team for that one. You could PM Chris Knox to see if he is doing it, I dont know how often he checks in here.
I saw that you were not online so I PM'ed him.
Can't make this month at all, Airshow that weekend, which I'm working, and vacation with the grandkids to Disneyland.
OK, FYI all AZ 2011 Washington's Birthday Appleseed Team members!
We'll be meeting at Ben Avery on Saturday, April 10th, for our first team meeting and practice session. Bring the centerfire rifle you think you'll be using at WBD2011, as well as a .22 trainer of your choice if you have one.
We'll meet at 10am at the public range. If there's a wait for a 200 yard table, we'll go over standing position mechanics with a dummy stock, and give everyone a chance to get a feel for a USGI cotton sling versus a 1907-style sling, and compare which one they like better for the rapid fire stages.
Course of Fire for the day, once we get on the line:
-Warm up at 25 yards. 1.5 inch squares (6MOA to coincide with your sight picture technique), standing unsupported, with either .22 or centerfire.
-Standing unsupported position, one shooter at a time, single-load, coached. One shooter per target per cease-fire. We'll try to sprawl to more than one 200 yard lane, or we might post two targets on one lane and have shooters fire from the left and right sides of the table if possible.
Goals:
1. Familiarize ourselves with the standing unsupported position.
2. Acquire a sight picture technique (COM or 6 o'clock) that works well for known-distance shooting.
3. Establish sight settings that work for our chosen ammunition at 200 yards, and log them for the next practice match that is available for any of us.
Estimated time: 2-3 hours.
I want to go, really I do. Mrs NEWGUY may not approve my kitchen pass for it since I will be Appleseeding in Payson the following weekend. I will "Test the waters" next time I think she is in a good mood. ~~:) Hopefully my power of persuasion will work. &)
If I may make a suggestion for everyone:
Go to your favorite office supply store and get a little note book that you can toss in your range bag. Alot of highpower shooters keep a log book with notes, scores, dope for thier rifles etc.. but those sell for like $15 and I am a cheapskate. I got a note book at megalomart for $2.
When I shoot even in practice I score every target just like they would at a match and write them in the book. 2-x, 3-10 etc.. as well as the distance, the shooting position and the ammo. I shoot Milsurp stuff from CMP so I like to write down the year of manufacture. Tracking my scores even in practice helps me see my progress. In the back of the book I started writing down the sight settings with the ammuntion I am using and the sight picture I am using. I am working on no wind zeros for the book currently, that way I will always have a starting point just in case I make a bunch of adjustments and forget to change it back. O0
With the Sierra Vista appleseed the very next weekend, there's no way I can drive to Phoenix for the whole day...but, I will shoot that COF here at my local range.
I have no idea how the scoring works, can anyone point me in the right direction? I know I'd get much more out of a coached session, but I just can't justify the time.
Mark
Quote from: AZbinary23 on March 30, 2010, 09:53:04 PM
With the Sierra Vista appleseed the very next weekend, there's no way I can drive to Phoenix for the whole day...but, I will shoot that COF here at my local range.
I have no idea how the scoring works, can anyone point me in the right direction? I know I'd get much more out of a coached session, but I just can't justify the time.
Mark
So we are working on the standing "String" you cannot use a sling. You need to find a comfortable way to lock your non-firing elbow against your body. I have a big belly so that is where mine goes. Better than me trying to explain.
Here is a link , http://arizona-rifleshooting.com/nmc.html the guy who runs this site is the same guy who runs the WBD match.
Read through at your leisure and report back with any questions. We still have time for a couple get togther shoots between Appleseeds.
Mike
Quote from: AZbinary23 on March 30, 2010, 09:53:04 PM
With the Sierra Vista appleseed the very next weekend, there's no way I can drive to Phoenix for the whole day...but, I will shoot that COF here at my local range.
I have no idea how the scoring works, can anyone point me in the right direction? I know I'd get much more out of a coached session, but I just can't justify the time.
Mark
If you can't find the appropriate target and 200 yard distance, then get a 6MOA target of some sort. A 1.5" square at 25 yards, 6" circle at 100 yards, or a 12" circle at 200. Find a sight picture that allows you to shoot standing unsupported and put all the rounds into the center of the bull. Don't worry about the score for right now, just try to get a 6MOA standing unsupported group. Later, we'll work on shrinking that to 3MOA or smaller.
But, be sure to use your intended rifle and intended ammo! Note your sight settings, in case you go back to 25 meter AQT's and need to fiddle with them, or you go shoot different ammo and adjust sights accordingly.
thanks to both of you!
Quote from: AZbinary23 on March 31, 2010, 10:00:54 AM
thanks to both of you!
Anytime.
OK I managed to coerce someone into watching my little rascals on the10Th. I have a backup plan if that one falls through as well.
I am in, are we going to meet in front of the tower near where you check in? Would 50 rounds per rifle be sufficient?
I will bring my borrowed LTR that I shot last Sat. and the Centerfire I would like to shoot. We will see how it goes, this rifle needs more break-in.
I would really like to try out that 1907 sling, I have 2 but they are too short for me.
One more observation I have made that I would like to share is that I have watched my POI change by as much as 1moa with changes in light. EX: At WBD Match I had my Rifle zeroed at 200 previously with a COM hold. It was dark, cloudy with occasional rain. My first 2-sighters were in the 8 ring at 6:00. I switched to a 6:00 hold and my 3rd and final sighter was in the x-ring. The opposite happend at the Legacy Match. I was previously zeroed at 200 with 6:00 hold and was hitting 10's and x's with my sighters. By the time we got to the prone slow we had full bright afternoon sun and I was a bit high, so I held off just a touch and got closer to the bull. It very well could have been me, but not so sure.
:wb: Edit the above is a bad habit, focusing on the target instead of the front sight.
Sorry If I jacked the thread again, but when I have a thought I need to write it down or I forget.
No need for a .22 if you don't mind shooting your centerfire at 25 yards for warm-up. We aren't going to worry about adjusting sights at 25... we're looking for sub-6MOA groups from standing unsupported before we run a target down to 200, though.
I think 50 rounds will be plenty.
I'll be toting my M14. I've had second thoughts about bringing a dummy stock. We're not the RSO's for the public range, and while technically it's a safe device and not a rifle by any stretch, I don't want to ruffle any feathers or cause concern by having us practice positions with something that, to an observer 25 yards away, might look like an uncased rifle.
So, I'll bring my M9107 sling and we'll see if it fits on your rifle.
http://snipersparadise.com/marksmanship/installsling.htm
You're shooting a Garand? You're installing it as shown in this link, right? I've never heard of an M1907 not fitting on a Garand.
Quote from: AZRedhawk44 on March 31, 2010, 08:52:15 PM
No need for a .22 if you don't mind shooting your centerfire at 25 yards for warm-up. We aren't going to worry about adjusting sights at 25... we're looking for sub-6MOA groups from standing unsupported before we run a target down to 200, though. Ok I follow you. I will just bring my Garand and a bit more ammo.
I think 50 rounds will be plenty.
I'll be toting my M14. I've had second thoughts about bringing a dummy stock. We're not the RSO's for the public range, and while technically it's a safe device and not a rifle by any stretch, I don't want to ruffle any feathers or cause concern by having us practice positions with something that, to an observer 25 yards away, might look like an uncased rifle. I agree.
So, I'll bring my M9107 sling and we'll see if it fits on your rifle. Thanks
http://snipersparadise.com/marksmanship/installsling.htm
You're shooting a Garand? You're installing it as shown in this link, right? I've never heard of an M1907 not fitting on a Garand.
Yep, it fits the rifle just fine, but it is too tight once I get my arm in the loop. I can't get into position with it on. I have one that is 1-1/4" wide that came with the rifle in question. I measured it and it is 48". I know they make one that is 52" I think that is what I need, just would like to try it out before I throw down 50+ for a sling. The other is a 1" Uncle Mikes cheapy that I picked up for my 24/47 mauser, I have the same problem with that one. Hasty style works fine but I prefer the loop. I will bring the one I have, even though I buggered it up a bit, you can check it out. Maybe I am doing something wrong
The 1907 sling is great for the loop, but I prefer the canvas adjustable for the hasty. I have no issue with the "short" or "Long" 1907 on any of my garands, I think the difference is like 2 inches.
M
I've got two Turner 1907's: A synthetic "biothane" one that I got for my AR, and a more traditional leather one for my M14. Then I have an inexpensive MRT leather one that I've stretched out a bit that doesn't seem quite right any more, and a cheapy but serviceable one I found at Cabelas for $25 one day, on a sporterized Mosin 91/30.
I'll bring the cheapy one on the Mosin, the synthetic Turner, and my good Turner on my M14.
I don't care for the synthetic Turner one... the material grabs at itself and is a PITA to "open" the sling up. I'll bring it so you can see what I mean. I guess it isn't likely to slip since it's so grippy, but I've never had a problem with a leather loop falling down on my arm anyways.
Both the Turners are the longer models, though I have cut the leather one to fit my M14. The other one is still uncut though.
Damn! If AZredhawk, AZgrommit and AZRon didn't do such a fantastic job teaching me how to shoot back in Nov 09 at the Buckeye AS, I would not have been invited to join a newly formed team earlier this year or ordered a new AR-15 match rifle last week. You guys planted a seed and it is still growing. We shot as a team at the 118th and at Rio. I seen AZredhawk in Lane 1 at Rio but I missed the opportunity to chat with him. If I were not already commited, I'd be applying for a spot on the Appleseed Team.
I just wanted you Appleseeders to know that you got my respect and support out here in NW Tucson even though we are now competing against each other. You haven't seen me lately because there always seems to be a team match and an AS clinic happening on the same weekend. I continue to encourage the people I know to check out your organization and I go as far as to offer to take them, equip them and put them up in my RV. No takers so far, but I'll keep trying. On a positive note, I am getting them out to the range and sharing the message.
I just came from Ben Avery - it was pretty crowded when I got there at 1:00, so I would expect this weekend to be just as busy if not more so. Only got a couple hours in, but it's better than none. I guess people are trying to get their shooting in before it warms up. I will have a leather sling on my AR-15 in case anyone wants to experience that as well.
I thought our first practice was quite productive. I was able to identify a bad habit :wb: and with a few more dry fire sessions I will break it. O0
Many thanks to Redhawk for bringing extra slings for me to try out, and then for letting the one I like go for a good buddy price.
May be kinda hard for me to do another one in May, since Mrs NEWGUY has made many plans for that month ~~:) and I am pretty much out of M2 Ball. I will see how it plays out.
Redhawk and his M1A/M14 were quite impressive. There was a drastic difference between the Legacy Match and today's practice. Watch out come Feb 2011. :---
Opie was impressive as well, but that deserves a seperate thread. I am sure Redhawk will handle that.
Finally, My good friend that I brought, "B" showed alot of improvement once he switched from a carbine to a rifle. I will continue to mentor him, and see if I can't get him to another Appleseed, and help him earn his patch.
Thanks to all who showed up, I think there will be a great "payday" for the program if we persist and deliver on the firing line when that day comes.
PS: We are still looking to fill teams, it is not too late to get in. We have alot of time to get some new people up to speed between now and Feb. 2011.
NEWGUY -
It was great getting together to practice today - GREAT people to be around! I might have some Lake City 30.06 out in the garage I can supply if needed for another practice - lemme check. It's been a long time since I shot a Garand, but I believe there's some leftovers out there, probably LC match....
John
Quote from: AZOpie on April 11, 2010, 12:52:32 AM
NEWGUY -
It was great getting together to practice today - GREAT people to be around! I might have some Lake City 30.06 out in the garage I can supply if needed for another practice - lemme check. It's been a long time since I shot a Garand, but I believe there's some leftovers out there, probably LC match....
John
I have to agree with you regarding the character of our group.
As far as ammo, The CMP cut me off until I get a new RWVA membership card, so as soon as that comes in the mail I will be good to go. It takes 30-60 days though from the time you order until the time you recieve it.
If you did find some LC M2 ball (especially match) that you no longer had a use for I would be happy to purchase it from you. Thanks for offering.
Found it - got 3 boxes of 1962 LC Match M72 - 173 grains, 2640 FPS. I will bring it up to Payson next weekend. Ammo was bought with blood, sweat , and tears - your cost is to keep seeding....
Quote from: AZOpie on April 11, 2010, 01:18:51 PM
Found it - got 3 boxes of 1962 LC Match M72 - 173 grains, 2640 FPS. I will bring it up to Payson next weekend. Ammo was bought with blood, sweat , and tears - your cost is to keep seeding....
Deal, and thanks. I will see you saturday morning in Payson.
Gents, it was a pleasure to meet up and shoot with you. I think we're gonna have a great team for Feb-11.
I found a foible that I need working on as well... after all, if you're not going to the range with some sort of purpose, then you are just making noise.
I was going to propose a May date for another Saturday AM get-together, but I'm waiting to hear back on an item on the honey-do list as well as a potential Appleseed on the 29/30 weekend.
Tentatively thinking the 1st, 8th or 22nd as potentials. If you can't make it, then dry-fire practice will have to make do.
I propose the next session focuses on the 200 yard reduced-bull 600 yard, or the MR-52 target. This will be PRECISE practice, breaking position each shot and then rebuilding NPOA, and getting a rock-solid zero for our rifles and ammo.
Everyone chime in with weekend availability, and if you can't make it, then find someone else to hit the range with.
(PS: Fred, we didn't just screw around with High Power games while we were there... we also made a Rifleman!) O0
I can do the 15th for sure but that date was not mentioned. The 22nd is a possibility.
If it winds up that more people can do a different date, I will try to find someone to entertain my little ones for a couple hours.
I look forward to having a go at the 600 reduced. That one mocks me, but not for too much longer.
BTW- I have not been able to find a local source for the 300 and 600 reduced targets. Creedmore sells them but you have to buy 100. It would take a lifetime for me to go through that many. Anybody interested in a group buy?
I'm going to order a pack of those as well as the 300/200 reduced targets once my April 16th paycheck hits. I had a few of the 200y targets sitting around in the garage already.
I'll gladly split the cost of the order with you, or anyone else if they want to. If not... no skin off my nose. Targets is targets, and they all end up getting holes punched in 'em eventually.
I would like to have a full compliment of the targets for the Feb 2011 match on hand - I'm only 20 minutes from Ben Avery and never know when I might be able to squeeze a practice in - it would be good to have a full set available for those times when I can sneak over to the range, as well as scheduled shoots. A group buy might be just the ticket.
So far I am pretty open on the weekends in May for practice, but I do have to get Jesse's scouting schedule so that I can make sure there are no conflicts there - I don't think there will be but I never know till I see the schedule. Gotta do some fishing with a buddy that month, MUST get a camping trip in (Who else camps? That's got possibilities too for shooting), if the last weekend comes thru in May for Kingman I would like to participate, so it's gonna be a busy month!
Fishing? Camping? Shooting? All at once?
:'( :bow: :---
I love Appleseeders. :)
I even know of a place to go if June is more to your taste, and it won't be unbearable. Actually, it would be downright pleasant.
I'm up for a campout anytime this summer, would be great to do a weekend with the team(s) / families. Of course I'm still going in May as well. :))
We usually go to the same area (near Stoneman Lake) for our family camping, but I am looking to shake that up this year. I have a little 12' aluminum boat setup if there's a lake in the vicinity. My main requirements for camping are:
1. Not on holiday weekends (we leave town to get away from the crazies, not join them out in the sticks).
2. Out of the heat.
3. Generally not in improved campgrounds (see item 1).
4. Shooting friendly.
This could be a golden opportunity to get more of the shooters together from around the state and get some practice in together - possibly run a mini match to run through the COF for February. I also like the idea of getting the rest of my family more involved with the good people here.
Up towards Alpine there's a nice little fishin' lake called Black Lake. Probably 30 degrees cooler than the valley.
In the mountains above Alpine there's a little place called Hannigan's Meadow. Back behind the meadow about 15 miles is a series of forest roads that go way back in there. Several places to set up some 200-300 yard firing lines, and the Black River runs back there too. Looks like good fly-fishing country, though I've yet to fish up there. Or, you can drop off the Rim onto "Devil's Highway" towards Clifton and there are some HUGE, OPEN swathes of land to do true 600+ yard shooting if you're so inclined. Not sure about the fishing down that way, though.
I've been elk hunting up there (only saw deer and antelope), bear hunting up there (only saw elk and antelope) and antelope hunting (only saw bear), and it's a beautiful part of the state.
Always wanted to go up to Hannigan's, just haven't gotten there yet - sounds like this is the year. I love to fish rivers and streams, but haven't gotten into fly fishing yet, something about that hook flying around makes me nervous. No need to twist my arm to get me to go. &)
With enough notice I could probably shanghi my wife into an Appleseed team builder camping trip. My boys would be totally up for it. Camping, shooting, fishing etc.. whatever. At this point we would need to think June sometime for us to make it. She has something booked for just about every weekend in June. I will see how she feels about it and report back.
I have good knowledge of the area between Williams and Flagstaff off I-40. If there was any interest. Never been to Hannigan's meadow, but always wanted to go.
We could figure a 4-way split on targets, and I would be willing to order them. Let me know.
I assume you meant July. I have a commitment for 7-14 thru 7-18 with Jesse and the Boy Scouts for their summer camp up by Springerville. Staying away from 7/3-4, so that leaves 7/10-11, 7/24-25, and 7/31-8/1. Dang the weekends fill up fast! I'm in on the targets!
Sure is quiet from our shooters from the southern half. Do we need to look at the map to find a location more central everybody?
Hannigan's Meadow is 5-6 hours from the PHX valley.
GoogleEarth says Sierra Vista is about 4:45 from Alpine. Given the fact that I've actually driven Hwy 191 between Alpine and Clifton (a.k.a. Devil's Highway) and you average about 25MPH on parts of it... I'd call it closer to 6 hours.
We're looking at an Appleseed in Kingman on 7/24-25. It isn't officially scheduled yet, but it is in the works.
July 10/11 sounds nice, or 7/31-8/1.
Quote from: AZOpie on April 13, 2010, 12:06:30 PM
I assume you meant July. I have a commitment for 7-14 thru 7-18 with Jesse and the Boy Scouts for their summer camp up by Springerville. Staying away from 7/3-4, so that leaves 7/10-11, 7/24-25, and 7/31-8/1. Dang the weekends fill up fast! I'm in on the targets!
Sure is quiet from our shooters from the southern half. Do we need to look at the map to find a location more central everybody?
I meant May but typed June. My fingers do one thing when I am thinking another.
BTW- I checked out the targets at Creedmore. http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/home.php?cat=309 I will handle this, but would like to let Democracy rule here: Repair centers are cheaper than full targets. I am a cheapskate, and would do the repair centers instead of full targets. What do you guys think? Basically if you can't keep your shots in the black there will be trouble seeing where the shots landed on the shotup cardboard backers. Let me know, I will order today. O0
Repair centers are good.
Make sure you get these ones though: SR, MR-52 and SR-42. Those are the ones reduced for 200 yards. If they don't make just repair centers for those, then let's get the full ones. Split 3 ways, it won't be too expensive, especially if we only use 1-2 targets per practice session.
We might want the actual 600y ones for our summer camping trip if we do it... I can find 600 yards back there for us to play with.
Ordered. Cost with Shipping was 52.09. I threw in some black pasters too. Better than masking tape and sharpie pen. :~
Quote from: NEWGUY556 on April 13, 2010, 10:07:07 PM
Ordered. Cost with Shipping was 52.09. I threw in some black pasters too. Better than masking tape and sharpie pen. :~
As long as AZRH is along I'm good with masking tape and sharpies - although he misses coloring it in a bit.
lol
Tara "made" me take Wednesday off to go shooting with her. Forced me to. ~~:)
We went to Rio Salado and she shot my LTR at squares/redcoats/AQT's. Un-timed, she's shooting 210-220 or so now. She wouldn't let me time her, but I think she'll get to the Riflewoman stage by this weekend.
I did slowfire prone single-loading with my M14. 43 rounds downrange on the 200 yard "SR" target (since that's the only ones I have right now). I had two different loads with me. The second load shot lower but tighter, so I'll use that in the future.
While adjusting sights, I noticed my sight screws had come loose. I fixed that and finished off my straggler cartridges of the first load, getting my windage right. I think some of the windage variation from that load could be from the rear sight rattling around due to the loose screw. Still more vertical variation than I'd like though. Then I started in on my second load.
Once I was sighted in, I did a group of 10 and a group of 15 with the second load, single-loading each cartridge. Got 4 X's and another 11 10's, though the scoring rings are much more generous on the SR target than the MR-52 we're supposed to use.
Total score on the SR target from prone, single-load, with all errors from sighting in, was 397/430 - 6X. If I were to shoot 20 rounds prone, using the load I'm sighted in for, now that the rifle is sighted properly for 200 yards... I'd guess I'd shoot about a 195 - 8X on the SR target or a 170 - 4X on the MR-52 target. My groups are about a 3.5 minute 10-shot string.
Quote from: AZRedhawk44 on April 16, 2010, 12:34:46 PM
lol
Tara "made" me take Wednesday off to go shooting with her. Forced me to. ~~:)
You have a keeper there - gotta love a woman that forces you to go to the range.
Sounds like you are both getting dialed in. I will be meeting with a friend up north to work up the correct loads for my rifle (when I get it), then I should be able to get dialed in for the match. For now it's just working on the fundamentals...
Quote from: AZRedhawk44 on April 16, 2010, 12:34:46 PM
lol
Tara "made" me take Wednesday off to go shooting with her. Forced me to. ~~:)
We went to Rio Salado and she shot my LTR at squares/redcoats/AQT's. Un-timed, she's shooting 210-220 or so now. She wouldn't let me time her, but I think she'll get to the Riflewoman stage by this weekend.
I did slowfire prone single-loading with my M14. 43 rounds downrange on the 200 yard "SR" target (since that's the only ones I have right now). I had two different loads with me. The second load shot lower but tighter, so I'll use that in the future.
While adjusting sights, I noticed my sight screws had come loose. I fixed that and finished off my straggler cartridges of the first load, getting my windage right. I think some of the windage variation from that load could be from the rear sight rattling around due to the loose screw. Still more vertical variation than I'd like though. Then I started in on my second load.
Once I was sighted in, I did a group of 10 and a group of 15 with the second load, single-loading each cartridge. Got 4 X's and another 11 10's, though the scoring rings are much more generous on the SR target than the MR-52 we're supposed to use.
Total score on the SR target from prone, single-load, with all errors from sighting in, was 397/430 - 6X. If I were to shoot 20 rounds prone, using the load I'm sighted in for, now that the rifle is sighted properly for 200 yards... I'd guess I'd shoot about a 195 - 8X on the SR target or a 170 - 4X on the MR-52 target. My groups are about a 3.5 minute 10-shot string.
That's cool that she enjoys range time with you, and she is good at it.
Oh and that's really good shooting. Sounds like you have got your load dialed in as well.
Targets showed up today, I will bring them with me to Payson for you guys.
Quote from: AZRedhawk44 on April 13, 2010, 01:08:21 PM
Hannigan's Meadow is 5-6 hours from the PHX valley.
GoogleEarth says Sierra Vista is about 4:45 from Alpine. Given the fact that I've actually driven Hwy 191 between Alpine and Clifton (a.k.a. Devil's Highway) and you average about 25MPH on parts of it... I'd call it closer to 6 hours.
We're looking at an Appleseed in Kingman on 7/24-25. It isn't officially scheduled yet, but it is in the works.
July 10/11 sounds nice, or 7/31-8/1.
July 10/11 sounds great. Still not a peep from the south...
First of all, count me in on targets, I can always use more. Secondly, I've had a lifetime of "camping" and would really prefer a nice bar with a bedroom attached, but I can certainly find something close and meet up.
So, it looks like up around Alpine? I just don't want to run afoul of any issues with firearms on a reservation.
Which weekend in May?
M...down south
Quote from: AZbinary on April 21, 2010, 04:15:23 PM
First of all, count me in on targets, I can always use more. Secondly, I've had a lifetime of "camping" and would really prefer a nice bar with a bedroom attached, but I can certainly find something close and meet up.
So, it looks like up around Alpine? I just don't want to run afoul of any issues with firearms on a reservation.
Which weekend in May?
M...down south
Looks like 5/22 if the most common date that matches up for the next practice. Wel just have to settle on where.
OK...
I'll get started on the logistics of the 5-22 weekend, destination is less important at this point. Looking forward to it!
M
5/22 is unlikely to work for me, but you guys go ahead and do some stuff. Try and get lysander6 to rally up with you, and warm up his rifle.
I have a trip to Vegas to appease the GF (can't spend every weekend out shooting in the AZ sun), and I'm Appleseeding in Kingman the 29/30. Gotta take care of some of the domestic front issues on the 22/23 as a result.
I'll hit the range that weekend, it just won't be out camping or elsewhere.
On a more up-beat note... I just ordered 500 polymer-tipped 165gr "blemish" bullets from midway for practice, and another 500 Hornady A-max 168gr match bullets for when it's time to shine.
The blems look identical to A-maxes, but they have a cannelure on them. Not sure of their construction, but 165's in the past have shot extremely close to 168 match bullets for me. And that's just with exposed lead softpoints.
Check out this link if you're shooting .30 caliber for the WashBday match:
http://www.midwayusa.com/Promotion/?promotionid=271126&eblastid=42020103&utm_source=bigimage&utm_medium=special42020103
There is a Match at Buckeye on 5/23. Great for new highpower shooters, 100yrd course SR-1 Target for all 4 stages. I need to go since Buckeye is my "Home" range, and I want to help support it. I may be able to swing both a practice 5/22 and the Match. Thats what I would like to do anyway.
Kinda thinking 5/23 would satify the practice requirement. Is that a CMP match? What are the requirements?
Quote from: AZOpie on April 22, 2010, 07:30:00 PM
Kinda thinking 5/23 would satify the practice requirement. Is that a CMP match? What are the requirements?
It is billed as a CMP "Type" match. Last time they did this one they let any rifle in even ones with glass. They have a 10 min. sight in period with unlimited sighters. It is a 50 round course, no reduced 300 or 600.
Here is a link, http://www.joefossshootingcomplex.com/webapp/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=1&Itemid=18 click it and scroll down.
I can come and play for that... sounds good.
There's also a NRA RSO course on 5/22 at Buckeye for anyone interested - all day class.
I'll be there, can my wife shoot her Carbine? Will she be squadded somewhere else?
Cheers!
M
Quote from: AZbinary on May 03, 2010, 01:11:23 PM
I'll be there, can my wife shoot her Carbine? Will she be squadded somewhere else?
Cheers!
M
Any centerfire rifle, according to the link provided by NewGuy.
Please, have your wife bring her Carbine! AZTara shot a centerfire for the first time yesterday (my AR-15) and was really startled by it, though she is quite familiar with my .22 LTR's. After the match, would it be possible to let her put ~20 rounds through it? I'll pay for the ammo. Looking for some sort of centerfire for her that doesn't put her off.
She said she wanted to shoot my AR at this Buckeye match, but she put two rounds through it and was really put off by the concussive blast. We'll try doubling the ear protection (muffs + plugs), but the carbine is one option I hadn't considered.
I'll see if she warms up to my Marlin Camp 45 in the meantime... haven't tried that one either and I would expect the muzzle crack to be about the same as an M1 Carbine. Maybe a Kel-Tec Sub-2000, Ruger PC-9, Marlin Camp 9 or M1 Carbine in my safe's future as a stepping stone to longer distance centerfire platforms.
How far has your wife shot with her .30 Carbine? I'm unfamiliar with the round's trajectory potential, though I know for hunting or defensive purposes, you're talking about deer and smaller game inside of 100 yards for humane shots. 100 to 125 grain bullet is about your weight limit, right?
I can do better than that, I can bring a seperate Carbine and 100 rounds for her to shoot, cost is less worrisome than getting another shooter that finds something she likes. Faith loves her carbine, but doesn't care for the AR...and won't even pick up a Garand.
I've shot the carbine out to 200, but that's about the end of the velocity curve. I don't know what the bullet weight limit would be, but I shoot 110's at about 1900fps (commercial, I don't reload)...it gets pushed around a bit at 200, but 100 is fine. The real issue I have with carbines is crappy GI sights, it's essentially a long ranged handgun.
They are a lot of fun to shoot at cans with though...
If you like, you're welcome to come down and shoot one prior to the match...can take a look at the potential appleseed range too, throw in some lunch...Fun day!
OK:
I'm hoping to see NewGuy556 and AZOpie at the Buckeye match on 5/23. AZBinary, are you and Faith gonna be able to make it up as well? It'd be nice to see where the prototype beginnings of "Team AZ Appleseed" scores on such a match.
Lysander6, are you gonna come up for this?
Chrisknox, where'd you run off to? Will we see you at Buckeye?
AZBinary/Lysander6: Can you guys find a Tucson area event in late June or early July for our next practice session? CMP or High Power event, preferably 200 yards or less in case I can get AZTara tricked out with an M1 carbine by then. Ideally, I'd propose June 26-27 or July 10-11.
Quote from: AZRedhawk44 on May 10, 2010, 07:12:38 PM
OK:
I'm hoping to see NewGuy556 and AZOpie at the Buckeye match on 5/23. AZBinary, are you and Faith gonna be able to make it up as well? It'd be nice to see where the prototype beginnings of "Team AZ Appleseed" scores on such a match.
Lysander6, are you gonna come up for this?
Chrisknox, where'd you run off to? Will we see you at Buckeye?
AZBinary/Lysander6: Can you guys find a Tucson area event in late June or early July for our next practice session? CMP or High Power event, preferably 200 yards or less in case I can get AZTara tricked out with an M1 carbine by then. Ideally, I'd propose June 26-27 or July 10-11.
As far as I know right now I will be there.
BTW- I am so rusty. Last time I shot other than plinking with my kids was our Ben Avery practice. I went again with my kids this past saturday, and they let me have a range period with my prefered rifle and it was depressing. I am pretty sure I had a main course of NPOA issues with a side of some muscling topped off with Target watching for dessert. It amazes me at how fast the skills deteriorate. I have not even had time to dry fire between all the domestic stuff and work (go figure construction picked up a bit) I have had to do. I am going to re-read "How to become a Rifleman" again with a whole lot of Dryfire this week and I plan on a trip this Sunday to either Ben Avery or Buckeye Hills to get myself sorted out. If anyone would like to join let me know.
We plan to be there, and I'll bring an extra carbine for AZTara to try out. Best Tucson area CMP/Garand/Hipower range will be three points, home of the Tucson Rifle Club. They have events almost every weekend, with the Garand matches on the third weekend of each month.
Here is their link
http://www.tucsonrifleclub.org/
I'm sure we can find something fun, but know that this range is about an hour southwest from downtown Tucson, which may make it a longer drive than anticipated. There are also two county ranges that don't typically do much organized shooting beyond the boyscouts/4H folks.
Cheers!
M
I'll be there for the shoot, and I'll also be there the day before doing the NRA RSO class, in case anyone is interested. I sent Lysander6 an e-mail to invite him a little while ago about the match - he's got prior commitments that prevent him from attending.
Quote from: AZOpie on May 11, 2010, 08:20:19 PM
I'll be there for the shoot, and I'll also be there the day before doing the NRA RSO class, in case anyone is interested. I sent Lysander6 an e-mail to invite hime a little while ago about the match - he's got prior commitments that prevent him from attending.
I can't make it to the RSO class either. My Wife is working that day (5/22) so I will have my boys.
Sorry - meant to say I sent him an invite for the Sunday shoot. I remember him saying that e-mail is his preferred method of communication.
See you guys tomorrow, We'll be there a bit before 0700, since it's a three hour drive. Anything special I need to bring beyond the usual range day?
AZRedhawk, I'll have an extra carbine and rounds in tow for AZTara to try out.
AZB
Quote from: AZbinary on May 22, 2010, 09:01:19 PM
Anything special I need to bring beyond the usual range day?
A big bag of x's and 10's would work well. ;D
See you in the morning!
AZO
Quote from: AZOpie on May 22, 2010, 11:04:00 PM
Quote from: AZbinary on May 22, 2010, 09:01:19 PM
Anything special I need to bring beyond the usual range day?
A big bag of x's and 10's would work well. ;D
See you in the morning!
AZO
Throw in some 9's for me, I could use them. :sos:
Quote from: AZOpie on May 22, 2010, 11:04:00 PM
Quote from: AZbinary on May 22, 2010, 09:01:19 PM
Anything special I need to bring beyond the usual range day?
A big bag of x's and 10's would work well. ;D
See you in the morning!
AZO
What happened to AZB? Hope all is well with you and nothing serious kept you from making it to the shoot today
AZO
Had a family issue drop in last night...emergency babysitting for the grandkids. How'd the shoot go? Sorry I couldn't make it
AZB
Quote from: AZbinary on May 23, 2010, 10:59:41 PM
Had a family issue drop in last night...emergency babysitting for the grandkids. How'd the shoot go? Sorry I couldn't make it
AZB
It was a nice day for shooting, even with the wind. Forgot to put on my sunscreen again, and I'm paying for it now. It was nice to get to shoot with other instructors - seems a rare thing as we are usually busy seeding or just dealing with the day to day. This one was more of a beginner shoot as they took a little extra time to provide some limited instruction on the course of fire and helped people to use slings, mats, etc. Great environment to get your feet wet in the match programs at.
Glad to hear everything is OK. Maybe we'll see you at the next one in October, or sometime before that on the trail...
AZO
I'm really sorry I missed it, we do get very few opportunities to shoot together as AZ's instructor corps...Hopefully October
AZB
Props to AZO for winning the match. Seems he forgot to mention that.
Both NewGuy556 and AZO scored better than me. I need more trigger time! :--- Funny how my seated position can go to heck if I don't practice it. ++)
Next up on the AZ Appleseed Instructor whirlwind High Power / CMP circuit:
Payson, June 6th. 9AM to noon, High Power Match. Unknown COF, probably 10 standing, 10 seated, 10 rapid prone, 20 slow prone. 200 yards for all targets.
Rio Salado, June 26th. 7:30AM to 2PM. 60 round, 500 yard prone match. 3x20rd strings. Sighters allowed during each string.
Phoenix Rod and Gun Club, June 27th. 7:30AM to 2PM. Same as above, 60rd/500y prone match.
Wow! Congratulations AZO! Great shooting!
I had a good time anyway, I hope everyone else did as well.
Shooting from the standing position with that wind hurt my score, I could not get the rifle to settle down.
My prone slow fire score came up a few points as well as sitting rapid compared to what I have done in the past so I will claim that as my small victory.
Nice Job AZOpie, I was happy that atleast 1 from our group was able to win something.
AZR- I will more than likely be in for Payson.
Quote from: AZRedhawk44 on May 24, 2010, 03:48:50 PM
Next up on the AZ Appleseed Instructor whirlwind High Power / CMP circuit:
Payson, June 6th. 9AM to noon, High Power Match. Unknown COF, probably 10 standing, 10 seated, 10 rapid prone, 20 slow prone. 200 yards for all targets.
Rio Salado, June 26th. 7:30AM to 2PM. 60 round, 500 yard prone match. 3x20rd strings. Sighters allowed during each string.
Phoenix Rod and Gun Club, June 27th. 7:30AM to 2PM. Same as above, 60rd/500y prone match.
Gonna have to see if I can get the shoot in on the 6th - maybe combine it with a visit to my friends in Clay Springs that weekend. 3 weeks in a row - might be treading on the thin line with my wife - we'll see. Gonna have to be a real good boy between now and then with being out of town this weekend as well. We'll be in Colorado for the last two in town for the month so those are out for me. What's the entry fee in Payson?
AZO
Quote from: AZOpie on May 24, 2010, 07:53:55 PM
Quote from: AZRedhawk44 on May 24, 2010, 03:48:50 PM
Next up on the AZ Appleseed Instructor whirlwind High Power / CMP circuit:
Payson, June 6th. 9AM to noon, High Power Match. Unknown COF, probably 10 standing, 10 seated, 10 rapid prone, 20 slow prone. 200 yards for all targets.
Rio Salado, June 26th. 7:30AM to 2PM. 60 round, 500 yard prone match. 3x20rd strings. Sighters allowed during each string.
Phoenix Rod and Gun Club, June 27th. 7:30AM to 2PM. Same as above, 60rd/500y prone match.
Gonna have to see if I can get the shoot in on the 6th - maybe combine it with a visit to my friends in Clay Springs that weekend. 3 weeks in a row - might be treading on the thin line with my wife - we'll see. Gonna have to be a real good boy between now and then with being out of town this weekend as well. We'll be in Colorado for the last two in town for the month so those are out for me. What's the entry fee in Payson?
AZO
The match takes place on the Anniversary of D-Day. That is the angle I worked on my wife. If it helps.
Quote from: NEWGUY556 on May 24, 2010, 08:27:34 PM
The match takes place on the Anniversary of D-Day. That is the angle I worked on my wife. If it helps.
Tried using that - got the evil eye! Actually she's warming up to the idea. Probably go the campgrounds north of Payson, meet up with our friend for some fishing on Saturday, then catch the match on the way back Sunday...
AZO
NewGuy: Do you know where the Target shopping mall is in Fountain Hills, off Shea and Hwy 87? We can meet there at 7:30AM and carpool up rather than driving two cars.
Quote from: AZOpie on May 28, 2010, 12:06:06 AM
Tried using that - got the evil eye! Actually she's warming up to the idea. Probably go the campgrounds north of Payson, meet up with our friend for some fishing on Saturday, then catch the match on the way back Sunday...
AZO
Lol... she's catching on. Gonna have to get the ladies introduced to one another and out Appleseeding, too. Pink AR's, slings that match their purses or nail polish... ;D
Quote from: AZOpie on May 28, 2010, 12:06:06 AM
Quote from: NEWGUY556 on May 24, 2010, 08:27:34 PM
The match takes place on the Anniversary of D-Day. That is the angle I worked on my wife. If it helps.
Tried using that - got the evil eye! Actually she's warming up to the idea. Probably go the campgrounds north of Payson, meet up with our friend for some fishing on Saturday, then catch the match on the way back Sunday...
AZO
I got that too, then she thought of spending the day at home with me and the history channel all day and relented. >:D
Quote from: AZRedhawk44 on May 28, 2010, 01:19:59 AM
NewGuy: Do you know where the Target shopping mall is in Fountain Hills, off Shea and Hwy 87? We can meet there at 7:30AM and carpool up rather than driving two cars.
Quote from: AZOpie on May 28, 2010, 12:06:06 AM
Tried using that - got the evil eye! Actually she's warming up to the idea. Probably go the campgrounds north of Payson, meet up with our friend for some fishing on Saturday, then catch the match on the way back Sunday...
AZO
Lol... she's catching on. Gonna have to get the ladies introduced to one another and out Appleseeding, too. Pink AR's, slings that match their purses or nail polish... ;D
I can find it (target). I think it is on the West Side of Shea, North of the Beeline. We can carpool (Save the Planet).
I managed to get my wife out to the range to shoot twice in the last 10 years. Funny thing is that before we got married she would go anywhere with me (Camping, Fishing, Shooting) After getting married things changed. If you fellas can convince your ladies to get out Appleseeding, you will need to let me in on the trick. O0
So far, my trick has been a bit expensive:
Trading Appleseeds for "nice" stuff. (Who says Appleseeds ain't nice?)
Dinner out somewhere inventive and fun for her (and for me I guess, too). A weekend in Vegas, last month. A cruise in August. Problem is, they all seem to get bigger. :o
I use AZRedhawks' technique. . . it's blatant bribery, but I think she actually enjoys Appleseeds. Trip back east to see friends this year, and Alaska cruise next year...
Quote from: NEWGUY556 on May 28, 2010, 03:56:43 PM
Quote from: AZRedhawk44 on May 28, 2010, 01:19:59 AM
NewGuy: Do you know where the Target shopping mall is in Fountain Hills, off Shea and Hwy 87? We can meet there at 7:30AM and carpool up rather than driving two cars.
Quote from: AZOpie on May 28, 2010, 12:06:06 AM
Tried using that - got the evil eye! Actually she's warming up to the idea. Probably go the campgrounds north of Payson, meet up with our friend for some fishing on Saturday, then catch the match on the way back Sunday...
AZO
Lol... she's catching on. Gonna have to get the ladies introduced to one another and out Appleseeding, too. Pink AR's, slings that match their purses or nail polish... ;D
I can find it (target). I think it is on the West Side of Shea, North of the Beeline. We can carpool (Save the Planet).
I managed to get my wife out to the range to shoot twice in the last 10 years. Funny thing is that before we got married she would go anywhere with me (Camping, Fishing, Shooting) After getting married things changed. If you fellas can convince your ladies to get out Appleseeding, you will need to let me in on the trick. O0
Denise will be Appleseeding this month - we are camping at the range for the weekend while I work the Ramah shoot. Nothing like a captive audience! :cool2:
Good to hear!
Quote from: AZRedhawk44 on May 28, 2010, 05:54:52 PM
So far, my trick has been a bit expensive:
Trading Appleseeds for "nice" stuff. (Who says Appleseeds ain't nice?)
Dinner out somewhere inventive and fun for her (and for me I guess, too). A weekend in Vegas, last month. A cruise in August. Problem is, they all seem to get bigger. :o
Don't worry, I'll keep you supplied with ideas.
Quote from: AZTara on June 02, 2010, 01:31:14 PM
Don't worry, I'll keep you supplied with ideas.
Uh-oh. :-\
;)
Think she's got your number! **)
Quote from: AZOpie on June 02, 2010, 07:38:21 PM
Think she's got your number! **)
+1 ;D
Guess now I know to keep my wife away from the forums so she doesn't get any "Ideas".
Dinner is easy enough, but generally she prefers my cooking and she gets that all the time so nothing special there.
That leaves Cruises or other vactions. NEWGUY556 does not like airplanes. $$-0
Hope ya'll don't mind a Nevadan chiming in here.AZRedhawk44,I finally got on this forum.I'm the guy from Las Vegas that came to the full distance shoot in Kingman last May(the one who screamed loudly when I saw that I was actually able to hit the 400M target).I remember you talking about this match when I came up on this thread.Do you have room for an out of stater on one of your teams?how does the practice session schedule work,as I would have to put in for time off at work in order to make the meetings.
I'd love to have more than 1 team, mudhauler. I'd ideally like to see a team from the Vegas/Boulder City/Kingman area put together to join the PHX team. You guys could then practice on your ranges up in the corner of AZ/NV.
Otherwise, the pratice regimen is currently as follows for the rest of us:
1 - Dry fire, every day. Unslung/unsupported standing, slung seated, slung prone. 10-20 snaps from each position every day will do wonders with the rest of your practice. Takes 10 minutes.
2 - Beat the ever-living snot out of AQT's. Consistently shoot a 230 or so, push yourself and keep refining your technique.
3 - Master your sight picture against a 6MOA black circle, since that's what an NRA/CMP target looks like. Don't just be satisfied with hitting a 6MOA target... raise your expectations for yourself to keep a centered group inside of a 6MOA target.
4 - Start participating in CMP or NRA Service Rifle matches. Learn the format. Refine your technique.
Our goal for all participants is to shoot a 425+ out of 500 possible points, and that's a high bar to reach. As-is, only one of us is at that level right now, but we're all working as hard as we can to get there. I'm thinking that the next couple matches will see two more of us make it over the hump. Of course, we'll just raise the bar to 450+, if that's the case. ~~:) @)
We have dates for the match - February 19 & 20. O.K., really it's just the 20th, the 19th is a clinic and practice. I am in and NEWGUY556, I blieve, is in. We need two more to make an Appleseed Instructor team...
John
I REALLY want to be there, so count me in, even though I've never shot a high power match before. I'll keep practicing with my Garand. . .
it's a long ways away, but I will be there if at all possible.
AZB
We are at 3 instructors, and about 8 weeks out. The entry will have to be made in the next month or so. Do we have a fourth?
I am planning on some practice at the Buckeye Hills range January 8th and a Match at Rio Salado on the 9th.
If anyone would like to join me let me know.
Dusting off AZRedHawk44 - he'll be joining us for the match - that makes 4. Of course it would be even better if more would join in. Hey, I got a basement and a trailer for overnight housing...
AZO
I'd love to get in on this but will be "occupied" :wb: ~~:) until late May. Sounds like a great time!!
Lost azbinary to unforseen circumstances, but azbuddy is picking up the slack on the team....
AZO
The game is on - wind and rain - just the way we like it!
Well, it was cold, windy, and rainy - just like the weatherman said it would be. There was the biggest turnout in 10 years, but then we lost 30% when the match was delayed due to inclimate weather. The first two relays got to shoot in the rain, until the match was delayed. We holed up in the back of my truck for an hour and a half, ate lunch, then continued the match, in an abbreviated form. We went from a 50 round match (10 SF standing, 10 RF sitting, 10 RF prone, 20 SF prone) to a 30 round match (10 SF standing, 10 RF prone, 10 SF prone). Our team scored 920 - 8X for the course of fire - not the level we expected to shoot at, but better than most.
It was a pretty good 7th step as we got to talk to other shooter and promote Appleseed. We'll be seeing some of them on the line over the next year I expect...
AZO
Quote from: AZOpie on February 23, 2011, 10:44:37 PM
Well, it was cold, windy, and rainy - just like the weatherman said it would be. There was the biggest turnout in 10 years, but then we lost 30% when the match was delayed due to inclimate weather. The first two relays got to shoot in the rain, until the match was delayed. We holed up in the back of my truck for an hour and a half, ate lunch, then continued the match, in an abbreviated form. We went from a 50 round match (10 SF standing, 20 RF sitting, 10 RF prone, 20 SF prone) to a 30 round match (10 SF standing, 10 RF prone, 10 SF prone). Our team scored 920 - 8X for the course of fire - not the level we expected to shoot at, but better than most.
It was a pretty good 7th step as we got to talk to other shooter and promote Appleseed. We'll be seeing some of them on the line over the next year I expect...
AZO
O0
Quote from: AZOpie on February 23, 2011, 10:44:37 PM
Well, it was cold, windy, and rainy - just like the weatherman said it would be. There was the biggest turnout in 10 years, but then we lost 30% when the match was delayed due to inclimate weather. The first two relays got to shoot in the rain, until the match was delayed. We holed up in the back of my truck for an hour and a half, ate lunch, then continued the match, in an abbreviated form. We went from a 50 round match (10 SF standing, 10 RF sitting, 10 RF prone, 20 SF prone) to a 30 round match (10 SF standing, 10 RF prone, 10 SF prone). Our team scored 920 - 8X for the course of fire - not the level we expected to shoot at, but better than most.
It was a pretty good 7th step as we got to talk to other shooter and promote Appleseed. We'll be seeing some of them on the line over the next year I expect...
AZO
The scores were posted a few days ago, I thought I would post how we did on here. Our team was 13th out of 41.
I thought we did quite well, as this match is a very prestigious one for our state and draws the best shooters from across the state.
We will do better next year.