Other Ranges in GA (BIG RANGES)

[Appalacious]

I tell you what.  Websites like this sure make it clear that we have ALOT of growing room still in GA.

Anybody ever heard of this range?
http://www.rbgc.org/index.htm

or any others from this site?
http://www.gssa.com/Ranges/clubs_ranges.htm

I started looking over the gssa to find matches to compete in.  Then I found those ranges.  Seems like low-hanging fruit to me.  Any of yall members?

J

[Col Barrett]

I plan to shoot in a match at Riverbend gun club in the next few weeks. It is about 60 miles north of me. That range has been in the back of my mind for an Appleseed shoot. Though it is about $900 fee to join and $600 annual dues. Although weekend competitions can be joined by anyone for about 20-25 bucks. I will start to work my magic and get to know some people up there. I already know a few and I think they would be ecstatic about an Appleseed.

I don't know if I should post this somewhere else on the board, but I got an email from a friend who actually turned me on to Appleseed even though he hasn't attended one yet. He asked me if I would be willing to hold an Appleseed with his Boyscout troop for a weekend. I thought this was a wonderful idea and could probably get the message to a lot of young boys 12+ roughly, but also to many parents. I know there is a lot of work to be done and would have to coordinate with some other IIT's so we would have all our bases covered, but this gives me some goals to work toward.

[Appalacious]

Tell me more about the match you're attending.

Also, start a new thread about the boy scout thing.  Otherwise we're about to have a HUGE hijack.

J

[Col Barrett]

I don't know exactly which one I will attend. I am going to go with a guy off the M14tfl forum from GA.

They have several matches, but a few interest me. http://www.rbgc.org/calendar/2010/201002Feb.html
The schedule pretty much follows the same format throughout the years.

The HP 80 Shot, the HP 600x3 and the HP 100 Reduced. I think the 100 reduced is somewhat similar to an Appleseed Cource:
Course of fire for this match:
Stage 1    Ten Minute sighting in period
Stage 2    10 shots standing, slow fire
Stage 3    10 shots sitting, rapid fire
Stage 4    10 shots prone, rapid fire
Stage 5    20 shots prone, slow fire
This is what is called the 50 shot National Match Course.

I really don't know many details, that is why I have been hesitant to go. But I feel that I have a pretty good all around understanding of the rifle and all the shooting concepts and want to get my feet wet. I haven't shot long range yet, but am anxious to do so.

I know its a haul for you, but I would love to have you along whenever you get a weekend. Its an all day thing, safety in the morning, some shooting, some target scoring, etc. everyone has to do a little bit of everything I believe. Hope to have some experience in one of the matches in the next few weeks and start working my way into the regulars group and then present them with the Appleseed idea. If you get one of the regulars their to come along to an Appleseed, then he may take it upon himself to offer one at their range. And you never have to invite yourself that way, that may be the secret to this.

[Georgia Gator]

I shoot at this range, Riverbend, about once a month.  I love it.  My friend is a member and has been for years.  We primarily hang out at the multi-purpose rifle ranges.  One is 100 yards and the other is 200 yards.  He and I attended our first Appleseed a few months back in Toccoa and had a great time.  We talked about how cool it would be for Appleseed to come to Riverbend and be so close to Atlanta.  I'll direct him to this thread. 

[jollynator]

I say we put together all the available instructors and go compete in the garand\springfield\VM match on the weekend of 2 May in a friendly competition seeing how there is nothing going on for GA that weekend.  Of course, things may change.

What do ya'll think about a little representing?

jon

[sanderman79]

Sounds good to me.  We can camp out for the night and shoot Sat and Sun.  Gotta practice now

[jollynator]

What I was thinking was to have as many RWVA faces at this particular shoot.  Some of these people are prime candidates for future instructors.  Either they are involved in a hobby that is a dying art, or they are honing their skills as Riflemen.  If we can put together a makeshift "GA RWVA rifle team" we may have more of an impact if there are several of us there.  Also we can stretch out our own skills a little.

A kind of "mass communicatin".  Especially if we just happen to wear our adorned jackets and fancy RWVA instructor hats.  Generally, that gets peoples attention.  And then the questions follow.

Also seeing how it is a sanctioned CMP match, we may just end up with a little promotion from the CMP.  Hard to guess, but I'd say at least a possibility.

I need time to plan my end so...

...what say ya'll?

jon

[franklinfarmer]

For practice, there's also a cmp garand match near Bremen on March 13.  I didn't want all the competition from you big boys, but I'm planning to be there.  Oh, and it's also cheap:  10 frn per match for 3 matches...maybe one is M1Carbine.

[Appalacious]

FF:  send link.

To all:  I love this idea.  The RWVA GA Rifleman.  I say we do it. 

J

[sanderman79]

I'm in lets do it. What is the info for the one in Bremen?

[jollynator]

I can't make the one in bremen.  Too short of time.  But the one in Dawsonville, Ga. I will be at.  I'm sure the other Jolly boy will be there too.

Jon

[DrJohn]

Count me in on this one.  What a great idea.

[franklinfarmer]

I can't find anything about the Bremen shoot on the web.  But I've got a paper flier.  It is March 13, and it's called the

Inaugural Civilian Marksmanship Program Rifle Match

(presumably that means inaugural with respect to the range, which is the West Georgia Youth Range Association range in Bremen, namely, this one:  http://www.wgts.info/directions.html)

As I recall, there were three matches, 30 rounds each, 10 slow fire standing, 10 rapid fire prone, and 10 slow fire prone at 100 yards with a 3moa circular bullseye (10 points).  First two were Garand or vintage militiary and the last one was M1 carbine.

I think it started fairly early 8 or 9 am, but I can double check on that.

[Appalacious]

If you can, post the details here.  Or scan the flyer.

Thanks,

J

[franklinfarmer]

Inaugural
Civilian Marksmanship Program Rifle Match

West Georgia Youth Range Association
(Landfill Rd-Bremen, GA)

March 13, 2010
10 AM EST  ***time above was off; this is the correct time***

Rifle Matches Include
M1 Garand
1903 Springfield/Vintage Rifle
M1 Carbine

(Then there's a map:  Take exit 11 off of I-20 and
go north on US 27 to US 78 in Bremen.  
Turn left (West) on US 78 and go 5 miles to
Landfill Rd on the left.  Down there is the
WGYRA Rifle Range)

Please Contact: Leon Rutherford 770-328-0167 or Don Rutherford 770-876-9981.

That's exactly what's on my flier (which I got from Leon at the CMP store in
Anniston) except for a couple CMP seals and the map, modulo typos, which I
hope aren't there).  

P.S. I went out with the Garand today for the first time.  It was love at first shot.
Actually, I've got a better way to describe it:  It was love at first sight adjustment.

[Appalacious]

Hmmm, I wonder what the course of fire is.  And the cost.  Guess I'll have to call for more info.


It'll be hard for me to make it to that one with the new baby, but I'll try.  I hope others will too.  I bet we could recruit some good instructors.

J

[franklinfarmer]

So, we got a new baby coming on line?  Congratulations.

I think I can answer your questions:

Each match consists of:
30 rounds in 3 strings.  First 10 standing, slow fire.
                               Second 10 standing to prone, rapid fire (50 seconds I think, but no npoa shifts)
                               Third 10 prone, slow fire.
It's a bullseye target at 100 yards with a 3 MOA bullseye for 10 points.

First two matches are Garand or vintage (pre WWII) rifle.
Last match is all M1 Carbine.

(Anything else you want to know on the course of fire?  There may not be a transition on the rapid fire string, but I think I got the rest correct from what Leon told us.)

Cost 15 frn per match or 30 frn for all three (sounds like a pretty good volume discount to me).

[Appalacious]

Maybe if I had a m1 carbine.  I'll probably only do 1 round if I go.  Thanks for the update.

[Col Barrett]

So I shot the 100 yd comp at Riverbend Gun Club this weekend and was very impressed. That club has absolutely top notch facilities and great people. I overheard several people mentioning Appleseed, but was trying to act a bit covert and not run my mouth about Appleseed the whole day.  I shot with my M1A, my shooting partner was shooting a supermatch and it was pretty looking. I think this club would be welcome to hosting an Appleseed after I become a regular, there are also several people who I think would thoroughly enjoy becoming teachers for Appleseed.I outshot my partner on the line in the first 3 rounds, standing slow fire, sitting rapid fire, and prone rapid fire. But he beat me in the slow fire 20 rds prone. That should have been one of my best targets, but about 15 of my shots were an inch left and had a decent spread in the 7-8-9 rings and it was a scaled down 600 yd target. I shot 423 out of 500, I think I placed about 5-6 out of 40 or so shooters. I was recognized for having an extremely high score for a first time shooter and won 5 bucks, a third of my entry fee. I hope to place in the top 3 next month. That was the first time I have actually shot a target at any range over 25 yds, so I was very pleased. I hope to build a relationship with the organizers and suggest having an Appleseed at their club. They can easily host 100-200 shooters depending on how much of the club they are willing to rope off for us.

Oh, I did recruit one guy. He had bought an M1A about 2-3 weeks prior, and hadn't even squeezed the trigger on it. He had no experience shooting anything more than a .22 and had hardly done that. He is booked this weekend, but hopes to make it to the next Appleseed and was very excited about it.

Many thanks to the Appleseed program for teaching me so much.

[Son of Martha]

Good job.  6th out of 40 first time out is nice.

SoM

[Appalacious]

Well done, Col.  Remind that guy about Augusta on the 20,21st.  And next time wear your shirt

J

[Col Barrett]

I will send him a text with some info. I brought my t-shirt along, but was hesitant. I don't know how warm it got down in the sticks on your side of Atlanta, but I don't think there were any t-shirts exposed on Saturday. I think it was around 27 when we got to the range at 8 and finally broke 40 around lunch. Oh, and they shoot under the covered range there, so no sun on your back. I was also hesitant to wear the shirt, I liked the write up someone did on the our forum about going in and not saying a word about Appleseed, feel them out and build a relationship. Believe me, that is hard when you are passionate about something, but I also know how annoying it is for the new guy to be telling others how they are wrong. My shooting partner told me I held my breath for 33 seconds before taking the shot, I KNOW that it was closer to 3-4 seconds. I closed my eyes and took a few deep breaths and then refocused to take my shot during my sighting period. I almost got irritated by the guy telling me things I was doing, primarily my breathing, but I knew what I was actually doing so it was ok. Tho he did compliment form, follow through, and cadence, so at least he wasn't all criticizing.

I am totally open to criticisms from others, as long they no what they are talking about.

[jollynator]

I am totally open to criticisms from others, as long they no what they are talking about

That is the most profound statement I've heard on this forum.

Oh yeah, good shooting Barret!

[Col Barrett]

I am totally open to criticisms from others, as long they no what they are talking about

That is the most profound statement I've heard on this forum.

Oh yeah, good shooting Barret!

Probably would have been a bit more profound had I used the correct spelling of the word know. I know that statement may have come off as a bit arrogant, which I like to think I am not, but it is hard to stay cool when someone continues to give you advice on one of the few things you know you are doing right.

[franklinfarmer]

Here's a (perhaps) relevant AAR from a little range in West Georgia that might be of interest:

We were scheduled to start at 8AM, but I don't think any of us campers were expecting it to be 22 degrees overnight, and talk about herding cats...Safety briefing started around 8:45.  I gave a brief talk on Fred's plan to save America.  (I had planned to continue that during lunch, but when it came to it, I guess I was hungry, anxious to get the instruction/shooting done in the afternoon, etc. and I forgot.) 

Irregularity:  We had (really) no shoot boss, but relied on various participants to bring things.  The wire-ties and chamber flags didn't show up from their appointed suppliers.  Fortunately, various others had a supply of wire-ties which we used both for securing target backboards and (with a loop) for chamber flags in rimfire rifles---worked ok.  Some people also had our usual orange chamber flags (though see below) and we had enough big bore chamber flags to go around...in spite of the fact that we had at least 4 HK91's (one suppressed-way cool!), a Mosin-Nagant, an M1A, a SIG, a couple AK's, a Garand, a FAL, and at least one SKS.  Somehow one of my RSOs missed that the SIG's orange chamber flag was pushed into the open bolt area without the end being actually in the chamber---there was a live round in there.  Upon next prep period, the guy went to dryfire, and his SIG went bang.  This was arguably the biggest glitch of the day (more below), but muzzle was downrange, discipline was adequate on the line (nobody doing cartwheels downrange etc.) so the ND had no disastrous consequence. 

I was line boss the whole day.  The first time I've done that at all.  Needless to say, I'm whispering today.  I should have let one of my RSOs do some of the yelling. 

Here's a line boss question:  When that ND happened, I stopped the prep period, had everybody make their rifles safe and back off the line.  Then I had the RSO's recheck the line.  The shooters seemed a bit irritated to have to get back up out of their prone positions etc.---a lot of 'em weren't so limber I think.  But was it overkill for me to do that?  Should I have just continued the prep period as if the ND was no big deal?  (To me it was a BIG deal.  After all, we were just out in the middle of the range for instruction in front of the muzzle of that chambered SIG, and that was the only way that immediately came to mind to make it seem like a big deal.  The shooters seemed to me a lot more lax on such things.)

We only shot one real AQT.  It was started around 3:15.  I had more planned, but a significant number of shooters were already off the line, and everybody looked shot.  I think I wore them out with black squares.  Also, I think the high cost of ammo was weighing them down---a couple shooters ran out.

We had a couple rifleman scores (high was 226) and two or three more knocking on the door (200+ range).  Those guys should definitely qualify come April in Toccoa, if they work at it between now and then.

Biggest negative:  The 25 yard line of shooters ended up on what I thought was a slight downward incline, and I had shot at least a dozen rounds from each position the previous Friday evening, so I thought it would work out.  During the shoot, however, that downward incline seemed to cause real trouble for the shooters in prone.  In fact, at one stage, a shooter wanted me to demo with his loop sling and rifle and, being more tired I guess, the incline did put a crunch on my back and seemed to make it difficult to get the muzzle up out of the turf and onto target level.  It was definitely an issue.

Second negative:  General discipline was a little more lax than at a usual Appleseed.  I had shooters touching rifles (taking them on and off the line) when they were told not to do so.  Most shooters didn't do that, but there were a few exceptions.  The RSO on that side of the line, didn't seem bothered (and he's actually a more experienced IIT than I), so I didn't say anything.  In addition there wasn't really a shoot boss to consult, and no general safety rules seemed to have been violated.  I believe some of those guys were ex-military and just didn't like the idea of someone saying they shouldn't touch their rifle. 

Big positive (for me):  Most of the HK91 crowd came a long way to get there.  Apparently it was a kind of family get together, some coming form Mississippi (driving over 600 miles) and others from Tennessee.  The HK91 family kept their shot AQTs close, so I don't know what they were doing as far as scores.

OK, now here's the real interesting part for this forum:  The land-owner/host seems enthusiastic about letting us use his place on a regular basis for real Appleseed shoots.  It was a beautiful setting.  He also supplied us with T-posts, wire, and 4'x4' plastic sign backboards; we were set up for 36 shooters though we only had 20.  We set the range up adjacent to his fish pond.  I doubt that is the place where the range should stay (for various reasons outside of safety), but he was willing to level out the shooting area, and we apparently have tractor resources to do so.  Probably it would be better to set up a range somewhere else on the property, and he was willing for that as well.  There were several other possible locations I considered on the property, but without any land moving, I chose the one we used for safety considerations alone.  Does somebody (SOM, Appleacious?) want to go out there with me sometime and see if we can pick out a good spot that will be agreeable to everybody involved?  Then we can move some dirt and start a West Georgia/East Alabama Appleseed.  Next weekend, when some of us are shooting in Bremen might be a good time, or we can just work it with a trip to the CMP. 

[Appalacious]

First question.  What's the context of this?  Is this an Appleseed?
J

Here's a (perhaps) relevant AAR from a little range in West Georgia that might be of interest:

We were scheduled to start at 8AM, but I don't think any of us campers were expecting it to be 22 degrees overnight, and talk about herding cats...Safety briefing started ....

[franklinfarmer]

I think it might have been like what's called a "mini-appleseed."  It was an informal event that I and another IIT put together for a group of guys we hang around with.  We attempted to imitate Appleseed to the greatest extent we could, at least the marksmanship part.  The objective was to prep the group for the Toccoa shoot in April which they plan to attend as a group.  I'm not necessarily saying we were very successful in our imitation, but it was a fun day of shooting for most everyone there, and I figured you guys might be interested.   Even if you're not interested, I figured you might be interested in the fact that the land-owner seemed to be open to having the location used for Appleseed shoots.

If you're wondering why I was there instead of at a real Appleseed, let me simply say that the group had decided to attend the April Appleseed in Toccoa and I had committed to helping them with the prep marksmanship event before I knew the schedule and that there was shoot in Toccoa the same weekend in particular.  So, I didn't feel like I could/should back out on them.

One participant who had been to 4 Appleseeds mentioned to me that the instruction was "just like a real Appleseed, except for the history."  Another mentioned that his shooting had improved greatly.  So, it wasn't a total wash.

[Appalacious]

Sounds like a fun weekend, but the safety issues are a concern.  Bring them to an appleseed and we'll teach 'em right.
J

[Col Barrett]

FF,

Sounds like a great overall experience. I am not sure where the organization will draw a line between a Appleseed prep and a real Appleseed. I am assuming no forms were filled out for insurance. I am sure we are encouraged by Fred and others to take a friend or two out to the range and teach them some techniques, but I don't know where the line is drawn in such a gray area. I applaud you for putting something together at least as a clinic for other shooters. Obviously the safety concerns are the biggest thing, I don't think you were unreasonable to clear the line and check rifles in the safe position again, before possibly another not so well placed ND occurred.

I think SoM is in New Mexico this week, so you may not get any feedback from him for a few days.

Let me know if anything comes to fruition with the location, I would be glad to come out for a work day/weekend.