Full Distance Day

[ItsanSKS]

This is geared more to our Instructors, but any fellow Appleseed is welcome to chime in.

I am looking to get an RBC scheduled here in FL, most likely at the Bradford Sportsmen's Farm.  It may be a bit of a drive for most of us, but it is currently the ONLY range that we have access to here in FL with >200m.  

In preparation for for holding an RBC in Florida, *all* of our staff needs to be up to speed on how to shoot Known Distance, and more importantly, how to instruct it.  

I would like to have a day, probably in January,(Looking at March now) that we could all meet at said range, and practice our KD shooting and instruction.  

What say you?  Anyone in for doing some shooting at 400, 500 or 600yds?  
Want to build a come-up chart for your rifles?  This is your chance!

How many instructors have gone through an RBC, or are familiar with the protocol for instructing KD?  If you aren't, you NEED to be at this event, as we will be focusing more and more on ranges that offer distances greater than the 25m we typically use.

Post a response to this thread if you would be interested, as well as what weekend in January March you would be willing to do this on.  Once we have 3-4 other people, I'll try to get an MI or SI to do the actual instruction.  PHenry, you reading this?  


-ItsanSKS

UPDATE: 12/26/2009
Still no set date for this event, though I am considering some weekend in March.  Those of you who have said you want to attend need provide your availability.  Simply saying "I want to go" doesn't give me anything to work with.  GIVE ME DATES!
 
Cost for us to rent this range for the weekend is not cheap ($580) but can easily be divided amongst a group of folks.  We'll have exclusive use of their 600 yard line, which has room for about 15 shooters.   We'll be able to camp on-range at little-to-no cost.  The more the (cheaper) merrier.   Don't miss this opportunity to REALLY practice your known distance skills.

[willorith]

I'm there. Name the day. Brownbess and Hopalong will come also.

[douglas34474]

I'm in. Just pick a date.

[ItsanSKS]

Looking at the 2010 schedule of events for Florida (the one that doesn't exist, apparently) it looks like we have two events already scheduled.  As we all will most likely be working both events, it stands to reason that those weekends are out of the question.

This leaves us with the following weekends in January:

January 2,3; 9,10; 23,24. 

As folks (I) will likely still be recovering from an excellent new years eve celebration, I would have to say that 2,3 is out, which leaves us with the 9th & 10th, or the 23rd and 24th.

Pick a weekend, and lets get it scheduled!

[douglas34474]

I'm open. Guys, pick a date. This range is close (almost) to me so its harder on you guys.

[ThaiFighter]

I am skipping the first day this wknd at Myakka to hit the Long Range for just such a shoot. 

Will be at A51 on Sunday and hope I'll cinch my rifleman's patch.  

A full distance AS would be awesome!

[BrownBess]

Parramore Gang will be there

[caseyblane]

Is this something a rifleman wannabe could come do with my new M1 or would I just be in the way?

[ThaiFighter]

I would also like to attend if there is room on the line.  I have every intention of becoming an IIT and volunteering where I am needed.

[PHenry]

To all who are interested:

ItsanSKS and I spoke about this today and I stand ready to instruct. The minimum requirements for participating in this "soiree" would be current instructors, or anyone who is seriously working toward becoming an instructor who can group five rounds within 1" at 25M.

I would follow the fourth and fifth days of an RBC - modified for our purposes. All who attend will be exposed to advanced Rifleman info - target detection, range estimation, and windage. We will cover the "verticle" and the "horizontal" components of long range marksmanship. I also have some PMS out to other instructors of greater experience - so who knows? We might git someone "famous" to come down and help out! 

I will work up a POI that allows what we call the FDAQT, or full distance AQT. We will place (assuming we can get them in time) Army "D" targets at 100, 200, 300, and 400 yards. A score of 200 or higher will earn a Rifleman patch - a FD Rifleman patch (same patch - larger bragging rights).

We would begin at 25M, just like an event to attain a good zero, and then .30 shooters would move to 200M to verify. .223 shooters would move to 300M for same reason. This would give all a chance to get real-world come ups for their rifle. Understand that shooting past 100M requires a high power rifle and good ammo (also good grasp of basics for sure).

AR shooters must have high twist rate (1:9 minimum) and 20 barrel, with full sight radius or solid, good qual scope and mount, as well as the right load for their rifle (1:7 twist likes 68gr HPBT Match to 77gr HPBT Match for shooting past 300M - 1:9 will likely max out at 68gr).

.308 will want 168gr HP match or very good surplus ball ammo.

Don't be too concerned about reaching out to 600 yards, as we would be shooting everything in between as well.

To make this work, we will need ten paid shooters. The range is going to be ours for two full days. It is also going to be $$$. If we can get ten shooters - it will run each person under $60 for both days. Every penny of that would go to range.

As this would involve significant effort for ItsanSKS, please let us know ASAP, so that we can get prepped. 
Thanks,
PH

[ThaiFighter]

What would you estimate the round count would be for the weekend?   

Cheaperthandirt.com has some .223 69 gr match from BVAC for about 58 cents a round shipped.  My 1 in 9 twist stabilizes it very well, but that's the heaviest I would go.

[Appalacious]

You FL boys trying to sneak one past us??

Where is said range?  If it's north FL we gonna have WORDS.

J (in middle GA)

[Appalacious]

Ok, I found the range (just north of gainesville).  I must say, the disappointment just CANNOT be ignored.   

Mind if I mention this to other South GA folks?

j

[willorith]

Holy crap this is turning into a party.  I'll bring the grill and a box of steaks.

[willorith]

My mom is turning 81 on the 11th. I would rather not miss her party to attend the shoot, since I am hosting it. If we could have the full distance on the first weekend or the fourth weekend,  I could be there without abandoning my mother. The first weekend is good because it is sooner, and all of you that will still be recovering from Mr. Henry's party can carpool.

[VAshooter]

There is a Master Instructors meeting on the first weekend of January so I cannot be there to instruct on that weekend.

VAshooter

[ThaiFighter]

I'll haul out my smoker...

any of you guys like ribs?

[Appalacious]

The 4th weekend is an IBC in GA.  But that shouldn't affect y'alls plans.

[PHenry]

4th weekend is the Hernando event and I am signed up for it as are / should be / better darned well be several others, so that would be no fun for us. 

First weekend would be rough, as we will needs many items to make this happen and also don't have OK from range for that date as far as I know.

There would be some serious logistics required to make this a reality. First, to shoot at 600 yards with iron sights requires a very large target and backer. The bull in a NRA HP 600 yard target is nearly 36" in diameter, so that it looks like the 5.5" (approx) bull at 100 yards. And then you need a backer of sufficient size to account for thems who do not already know the exact come ups for their rifle / ammo. Think 4' x 8' sheet of foam core!

Yes, it can be done with smaller backer, but as we have no target pit - the Rifleman's dance will be a "slow waltz" as it is, and if we end up with 10 shooters (about max on this small range), checking targets will be a long story that involves an open pickup truck. I am looking into suitable targets already, as well as pasters required for such targets. Also have to design a very tall target line.

I must say that I am loathe to hold this event on a weekend when Sir Willorith is unable to attend and that's not just because he has said open pickup truck and the means to make steel targets neither.  With the effort that he has personally expended on this program - he is well deserving of attending if he so desires.

The more I think about this idea of IstanSKS, the more I like it. Bringing FL instructors up to a higher standard of marksmanship knowledge is a worthy goal. We have been recently directed to make certain that AS does not become a "25M program" and this would certainly be a good way to assuage that concern. Also, knowing the "real time" come ups for your rifles is priceless.

We need to git the date confirmed, so that we can get everything else lined up. ItsanSKS - any other dates possible?

PH

[ItsanSKS]

We need to git the date confirmed, so that we can get everything else lined up. ItsanSKS - any other dates possible?

Gee, thought I had the date confirmed... j/k.

I completely agree- we need 100% instructor involvement in this event, from the green as grass IIT0 who hasn't yet worked an event, to the SI who will probably be SB'ing the event.  Whether that means we wait until summer, or are able to get this done in the Spring, does not matter. 

My ultimate goal for this idea is to be able to host our very own RBC, perhaps even at the very range that we are looking at for the 'full distance weekend'.

To that end, I feel that each of us needs to be able to 'walk the walk' prior to instructing, and it certainly wouldn't hurt to have some of those folks who are of a higher pay grade come down and show us how its done.


Now that we've effectively written off January, lets look at February:

Two events already on the books, one at the very range we are looking to use.

March, on the other hand, only has one event, and it is slated for the third weekend- plenty of wiggle room to make a full-distance shoot happen.

So lets begin *again* with the idea of setting this up in March.  I will contact the range first thing tomorrow, and ensure availability, and have them erase our previous date (which was penciled in, just in case..)

Start by going over your own schedules, and selecting a weekend which will work for you in March, excluding the 27th & 28th- we should all be in Myakka anyways, right?

When you've figured out the most promising dates for you, post 'em up here.  We'll get a consensus built, and then move forward with actually securing the range.

[ItsanSKS]

For those who have requested to take part in this event, who are not yet instructors:

This event, while technically open to anyone, is geared toward getting our instructor pool 'up to par' with regards to the instructional aspects of long-distance shooting.  As such, Instructors (IIT's and RI's) will have first dibs on this event.  With a shooter capacity of about 15, I expect that this event will fill up fast.  

Should you be interested in becoming an Instructor, make your wishes known to the SB of your next event, score Rifleman, and then you, too, will be on the list to attend-  see how this works?  Wanna do full-distance days? Become an Instructor  

[willorith]

I am available any weekend in March except when I will be working Myakka.

Ever your loyal servant,
Willorith

[BrownBess]

As per Willorith, available for anything and anywhere, another Loyal IIT.....Paul

[Fred]

    May I suggest that "surplus ball ammo" be required, in the spirit of the Rifleman?

    (Just in case, go back and read what a Rifleman is, on the rwva.org home page...)

     This event, when and where scheduled, should be open for IITs/Instructors as a priority, with the mission of allowing an opportunity for instructors to learn how to run an LR component to AS.

      Qualifying on a FD AQT is simply gravy for individuals who attend.

      As to targets, the "D" targets will work out to any distance - 600, 1000, whatever.

     For more info, check out this thread: http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=2155.0

      It's on the "Shoot Boss" board, but those on here cleared for that board can bring back the buckets of good info there, and post it on this thread for all to see.

      Understand there is a concept of the FD AQT, but an understanding that few facilities will offer that, so a "short LR component" is indicated in most places.

      A short component is sighter groups at whatever distance the range offers - 200, 300, whatever, with instruction in "the three challenges for riflemen", etc.

     the benefits of a "short LR component" is the fact it needs an hour or less, but offers 90% (at least!) of the benefits of a FD AQT.

[ItsanSKS]

Mind if I mention this to other South GA folks?

Be my guest!  The more the merrier.  I understand that many folks will not be able to read the Florida Forum, so have interested parties PM me for details.

Still waiting to find out what dates would work in March. 

Was unable to contact the range today, will try again tomorrow. 

[DrJohn]

I am definitely in on this one, if March is the month that is selected.  As Appalacious mentioned, there is a Central Georgia IBC the last weekend of Jan., and I also plan to attend the RBC in Ramseur Feb. 21-28.  Like everyone else, I need a little "down time" between shoots to catch up on the home front, but FD is something I definitely need, especially with a corps of Instructors with whom I will be working. 
 
You Florida Appleseeders are awesome, and we are developing a great group of Instructors in the Central Georgia to Central Florida area.  You go, guys!

DdrJohn

[sanderman79]

I miight be able to make the trip in March also.  SOme full distance training would be good for me as well.  I might try to bring some more North GA folks with me also.

Raymon

[Tow4]

I am interested in participating in a FD RBC also.  I attended a RBC in Ramseur last year but we only got to spend a half day on the FD range.  That wasn't enough....

Ray

[ItsanSKS]

Please re-read the first post, as I have updated it to make some changes and clarifications.

I NEED YOUR AVAILABILITY.  We need to build a consensus as to what dates we can make happen.

[willorith]

March 27/28 are blocked out for Myakka. The other March weekends are open.