Full Distance Day

[panhead]

howdy

I have an expenses paid training class the weekend of the 19, I fly, they buy. This saves me money I don't have. If that is the chosen weekend, it sucks to be me, but I am resilient. I will catch up. Keep your powder dry.  

[Tow4]

 3/20-21 is the only weekend that works for me in March.

[RickB]

Any weekend in March is good for me--except, of course, Mar 27-28 (Appleseed!).
Thanks for all your hard work, ItsAnSKS!
RickB

[PHenry]

I will be tied up for most of March - could maybe squeak in the first weekend in March or first weekend in April.
PH

[colycat]

There was at some point some talk about who will teach the FD.  I was instructed by MI Ornell in full distance.  My learning has not been static since.  If you need someone to help out on this event, I would be willing. Just get it on the schedule.
Coly

[Tru Trak]

I too will be available in March on what ever weekend is determined. I can also be available for set up and what ever else is needed. Looking forward to seeing everyone! I must get out and practice! Larry.

[jmdavis]

As of now there is a plan to have two full distance instructor training sessions in VA. My understanding is that any AS Instructor from IIT to SI or MI is welcome. There are no firm dates yet. We have a DAR with 400 yards and primitive camping.

The sessions will include a couple of hours of classroom and then work at 100(or 200), 300, and 400 yards to get zeroes and fire for score.

There is something magical about taking your rifle with your known sight dope, adjusting for 400 yards and banging steel or punching the center of the paper with the first round.


More information will follow and I expect to see a separate topic in the Instructor section when the dates are firm.

[ItsanSKS]

So far, it looks like the first weekend in March will offer us maximum participation- is there anyone that CANNOT make it that weekend?

[Appalacious]

GA boys will be in Hawkinsville or Toccoa that weekend, but thats just fyi.  This is ya'lls rodeo.
J

[willorith]

Ok let's nail it down for the first weekend in March. If Dr. John can't make it I will be disappointed. However, I believe this will be the beginning of the FL great distance one shot arn society.

[ItsanSKS]

First weekend in March it is, subject to final approval from the range.   Will contact them tomorrow to verify availability. 

Will update ASAP.

[LibertysDaughter]

Count Steph and Terry in!

[willorith]

Good deal! ArnDimples

[douglas34474]

OK, the first weekend in March is the 6th and 7th. So when are we doing this?

[ThaiFighter]

We were just talking about this tonight...

The 6th and 7th is a go as far as I know. PM Itsy.  Same sleeping arrangements as last time.

Willorith and the Parramore crew are doing up some Arn targets. 

[douglas34474]

Did anyone come up with a round count?

[douglas34474]

Spoke with Clinnon last night. She will be there also with her Mini 14.

[PHenry]

Round count will relatively low. Once I work up the POI I will know exact #. We will spend a couple hours in the AM doing verbal and written instruction and then move to shooting squares at distance.

The goal of this event is to get each attendee familiar with exact, real-time come-ups for their rifle and ammo, at several known distances, with sight indexes recorded for future use. All info is ammo / rifle-specific.

I want to see all Florida instructors become experts at shooting and teaching KD. We will blaze the KD trail! 

PH

[Fred]

Round count will relatively low. Once I work up the POI I will know exact #. We will spend a couple hours in the AM doing verbal and written instruction and then move to shooting squares at distance.

The goal of this event is to get each attendee familiar with exact, real-time come-ups for their rifle and ammo, at several known distances, with sight indexes recorded for future use. All info is ammo / rifle-specific.

I want to see all Florida instructors become experts at shooting and teaching KD. We will blaze the KD trail! 

PH

    Oookaaay, so the goal is more than "to get each attendee familiar with exact, real-time come-ups for their rifle and ammo, at several known distances, with sight indexes recorded for future use" - and that's good!

    As in, not wasting an opportunity to let people find out how to teach a Actual Distance POI...

    It's something every RWVA instructor should know about and be motivated to do, whenever and wherever possible...

[PHenry]

Fred,
Last weekend in Myakka, Appleseeds was once again afforded me an opportunity to learn something new. I have never considered 100 yards worthy of KD work. What's the point? Too close for HP - to far for 22LR.

Well, I was dead wrong. It worked easily as well as 200M and, it afforded us a little character improvement as well, in the form of some minor adversity, running to and from the 100 yard line to avoid delays on the 25M line. 

Seriously, I got watch a man who had never held a rifle in his life, take a box stock 1022, with those odd little open sights and pull the same 6MOA group at 100 yards that he was pulling at 25M - no sight adjustment required!

The HP shooters got to see how IMC works at greater distance and a good time was had by all.

I'll never disparage 100 yard KD agin. 

PH

PS: AAR willst be up in a few minutes.

[RickB]

In his AAR for Bradford Sportsman's Farm, ItsAnSKS said,

Prone position at 300 yards was made impossible due to a rise in the ground, which left us attempting the shots from sitting...

Does this mean we will not be able to shoot 300 yards (and up) from prone?
RickB

[willorith]

Rick-
There are a few of us blessed with the Sonn'ys special multi purpose positioning device. This allows us to lie prone and still be elevated sufficiently to gain a sight picture despite the terrain at Bradford. For those less fortunate, or those that foolishly dispensed with their multi purpose positioning device, the chaise lounge supine position will be the preferred position, cup holder optional.

[PHenry]

There are a couple ways to deal with this issue.

We can shoot from back of open pickup trucks, or tops of vehicles to gain required height.

We can build a platform from 2x4 and plywood. ten sheets would accom. 5 shooters with 4' x 8' per shooter.

We can set up multiple targets, but shoot in relays from their stand, three at a time.

A Rifleman never sees a problem, only a challenge to be faced - an opportunity to improve his or her character through adversity.

A Rifleman persists until he or she succeeds. A Rifleman thrives on adversity!

Improvise, Adapt, Overcome in the tradition of thems who came before us.

The descendants of the Children of Liberty will not be denied!

I have go and chop some firewood now - too pumped up to sit at computer. 

[ThaiFighter]

There are a couple ways to deal with this issue.

We can shoot from back of open pickup trucks, or tops of vehicles to gain required height.

We can build a platform from 2x4 and plywood. ten sheets would accom. 5 shooters with 4' x 8' per shooter.

We can set up multiple targets, but shoot in relays from their stand, three at a time.

A Rifleman never sees a problem, only a challenge to be faced - an opportunity to improve his or her character through adversity.

A Rifleman persists until he or she succeeds. A Rifleman thrives on adversity!

Improvise, Adapt, Overcome in the tradition of thems who came before us.

The descendants of the Children of Liberty will not be denied!

I have go and chop some firewood now - too pumped up to sit at computer.  

the engineer in me thinks it would be much more cost and complication efficient to raise some sheets of cardboard a couple of feet than constructing something to raise the shooters a few feet.

the target line will be right in front of the berm, so no worries there.

Use the tall "T" posts and run the top wire at the very top.

Look forward to seeing all of you there!





 

[willorith]

I will resist the notion of raising the targets. It is fundamentally safer to shoot towards the Earth than away from it.

[ThaiFighter]

your concern is valid.  Two things to consider

a) you will still be shooting toward the earth in two ways...

at the ranges (300+) we are speaking of, the round has long since crested, and is falling...

and the round is traveling toward a berm, which is a vertical extension of the earth...

b) We fired at raised stands this weekend at Myakka and no objection was raised and no safety issue presented itself.  As we will be solidly up against a berm with this target line, raising the target line 24" will not present a danger.

[douglas34474]

10 sheets of plywood would hold 10 shooters. Would need five pickup trucks for 10 shooters.

10 sheets 4x8 plywood, 24 8' 2x4 would do it. 

[PHenry]

I was thinking this AM - I try not to, but it happens a lot.

If we placed two sheets of 3/4 plywood across back of pickup, it would allow two shooters per pickup with some care. I would estimate that about 1.5' of plywood would hang over the edge and should be strong enough to support wieght. This would be as simple as pulling sheets from back of truck and placing them on top of bed - not digging / no fastening.

We will bring supplies and I,A,&O.

I have decided that day one will be classroom and sighting in. Day two will include come ups and FD AQT for score.

PH

[willorith]

I have a supply of 1/2" MDO - sign painters plywood. (10) full sheets, (13) 1/2 sheets

A truck is not as stable as the earth is. It will move under recoil. Two shooters will mess with each other. Another challenge to overcome. The riflemen can fire in rifleman's cadence on alternate breaths for sustained fire from each truck - 1 aimed shot every 1-1/2 seconds.

I'll be making up pipe target stands. 8' above the Earth 18" in the Earth, sectional,  (4) units, hardpoints for wire attachment. Stakes for guying, wire for target hanging.

I'll also get some post drivers made up. Who needs one? Shoot bosses and future shoot bosses. That includes you, Wiley.

[RickB]

I agree with Willorith--the truck idea was my first thought when I realized what ItsAnSKS had implied--then I rejected it.  Even shiftng your NPOA can cause the suspension to rock.  Then you have to wait for it to settle.
We'd be better off sighting in from prone at 200 yards, then doing come-ups from a bench.  The zero will change from the bench but the come-ups won't.

Here's all we need to do:

• Sight in at 200 yards (from prone).  Three 5-round sighter groups (for scope shooters who are having trouble).  Record clicks of elevation from bottom.
• Fire one 5-round group from the bench.  Measure location and record change.  Adjust sights.
• Move to 100 yards.  Drop elevation 3 MOA (estimated sight adjustment).  Fire one 5-round group and measure location (if above or below center).  Calculate and record true comeup for 100 to 200 yards.
• Adjust sights for correct comeup and shoot a second group for confirmation
• Repeat for 300, 400, and 500 yards, using the appropriate estimated comeup from the previous range.
• Total round count--65.
• At 20 minutes for each group--4 hours 20 minutes