News:

We need volunteers in sales, marketing, PR, IT, and general "running of an organization." 
Maximize your Appleseed energy to make this program grow, and help fill the empty spots
on the firing line!  An hour of time spent at this level can have the impact of ten or a
hundred hours on the firing line.  Want to help? Send a PM to Monkey!

Main Menu

The English Civil War and the American Revolution

Started by CarrollMS, July 15, 2020, 04:55:23 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

CarrollMS

I recommend the artilce at the link below. 

https://earlofmanchesters.co.uk/does-4th-july-1776-mark-the-end-of-the-english-civil-wars/?fbclid=IwAR2pGsLdEXBJpvM4at6Auv_H3zCDdkNh8uVwErP95GO0tWWGOPSHgafxBO0

At the Alabama IBC this year I briefly touched on the English Civil War as a prelude to the American Revolution. "As British citizens, albeit with less representation than those back home, the men and women who took part in the American War of Independence were continuing more than a century of civil conflict, struggling against the control of a government they demanded a greater say in......  & "The people in the neighborhood appeared so ignorant and careless at Worcester that I was provoked and asked ‘And do Englishmen so soon forget the ground where liberty was fought for? Tell your neighbors and your children that this is holy ground, much holier than that on which your churches stand. All England should come in pilgrimage to this hill, once a year.'" [John Adams on a visit to England with Thos. Jefferson at the site of the the 1651 Battle of Worchester]


"
"Pro Libertate"
Distinguished,
Known Distance,
Rimfire KD 200

Maximum Ordinate

Mark,

Thank you for continuing to post interesting history topics which help frame the story of April 19th.   O0

best,
MO
"... the most valuable of all talents, that of never using two words where one will do."
-Thomas Jefferson


We're in the Liberty business.  Stay on Mission - Stay on Message.

Want to be a more effective Instructor?  Visit Appleseed Academy.

Mrs. Smith

Quote from: CarrollMS on July 15, 2020, 04:55:23 PM

"As British citizens, albeit with less representation than those back home, the men and women who took part in the American War of Independence were continuing more than a century of civil conflict, struggling against the control of a government they demanded a greater say in...... "

You understand, of course, that I'm compelled to steal this, shamelessly....
"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't." - Margaret Thatcher

You can have peace, or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once. - Robert A. Heinlein

"A generation which ignores history has no past, and no future." - Lazarus Long

"What we do now echoes in eternity." Marcus Aurelius

Waco 1-17       Waco 1-19     El Paso 7-19       Alamogordo 5-20     Albuquerque 7-21       Houston 8-21 (SBC)    Colorado Springs  2-22 (SBC)    Midland 8-22 (KDIBC)     Albuquerque 2-23      Harvard 5-23      El Paso 12-23 (PIBC)     Phoenix 2-24    El Paso 3-24

SteelThunder

#3
I love it...thanks for posting.

At a KD last year, I spoke of the riflery of the Overmountain Men, especially at King's Mountain and Cowpens.  While not DIRECTLY due to the English Civil War, these American Immigrants fled the region around Ulster, Northern Ireland to seek refuge from persecution.  The folks that came were a mixture of Irish and Scottish (and a few Germans and others) that were systematically displaced in the late 1600's as England exerted her domination of Scotland and Ireland, part of the on-going struggles culminating in the Civil War in the mid-1600's...in fact, more than a few Scots were placed in Ireland as a way to punish the Irish lord and placate / reward the Scotch collaborators.  Well, they discovered that they were both from a warrior heritage and didn't much like being ruled by a far away king.

That made them fit right just fine in Colonial America.  And they fought fiercely to protect the new nation with the skills of the Rifleman that they honed by carving a society out of the far side of the Appalachians..."over the mountain" as they say.

Odd turn of history...the defeated English commander at King's Mountain happened to be a big believer in the utility of the rifle...one Major Patrick Ferguson, the inventor of the Ferguson rifle.  He tried, and failed, to keep a company armed with his rifle.  Instead, he led groups of Tory sympathizers on the field that day.  The Overmountain Men marched 330 miles to stop him and showed him what they were about...probably spurred on by Ferguson's threat to "march over the mountain, hang their leaders, and lay their country waste with fire and sword."

If I can find the soft copy of my story, I'll post here.
NRA Patron Member, SAF Life Member
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor, RSO
Warlord of the West

Ultima vox civis
"Learning occurs only after repetitive, demoralizing failures." - Pat Rogers
"Silence in the face of evil is itself evil; God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer
"So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart." - Tecumseh
"Never attribute to treachery, that which can adequately be explained by incompetence" - Bonaparte, Hanlon, et al

TimOren

This is an interesting read on the English Civil War and Glorious Revolution, since it's written from an American perspective:

https://smile.amazon.com/Our-First-Revolution-Remarkable-Upheaval-ebook/dp/B000QCQ8Z8

There's also an interesting parallel and foreshadowing of 1775 in what happened with Governor Edmund Andros in New York and New England during this period:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Andros
Resistance to tyranny was a long standing tradition!

CarrollMS

Quote from: TimOren on July 16, 2020, 05:45:52 PM
This is an interesting read on the English Civil War and Glorious Revolution, since it's written from an American perspective:

https://smile.amazon.com/Our-First-Revolution-Remarkable-Upheaval-ebook/dp/B000QCQ8Z8

Thanks Tim, I ordered the book!
msc
"Pro Libertate"
Distinguished,
Known Distance,
Rimfire KD 200

Guntuckian

Quote from: SteelThunder on July 16, 2020, 04:03:30 PM
I love it...thanks for posting.

At a KD last year, I spoke of the riflery of the Overmountain Men, especially at King's Mountain and Cowpens.  While not DIRECTLY due to the English Civil War, these American Immigrants fled the region around Ulster, Northern Ireland to seek refuge from persecution.  The folks that came were a mixture of Irish and Scottish (and a few Germans and others) that were systematically displaced in the late 1600's as England exerted her domination of Scotland and Ireland, part of the on-going struggles culminating in the Civil War in the mid-1600's...in fact, more than a few Scots were placed in Ireland as a way to punish the Irish lord and placate / reward the Scotch collaborators.  Well, they discovered that they were both from a warrior heritage and didn't much like being ruled by a far away king.

That made them fit right just fine in Colonial America.  And they fought fiercely to protect the new nation with the skills of the Rifleman that they honed by carving a society out of the far side of the Appalachians..."over the mountain" as they say.

Odd turn of history...the defeated English commander at King's Mountain happened to be a big believer in the utility of the rifle...one Major Patrick Ferguson, the inventor of the Ferguson rifle.  He tried, and failed, to keep a company armed with his rifle.  Instead, he led groups of Tory sympathizers on the field that day.  The Overmountain Men marched 330 miles to stop him and showed him what they were about...probably spurred on by Ferguson's threat to "march over the mountain, hang their leaders, and lay their country waste with fire and sword."

If I can find the soft copy of my story, I'll post here.

Here's the version I wrote for Project Appleseed Kentucky Facebook Page. Enjoy!

When was America's Civil War? You say 1861-1865? Actually, these dates were for America's Second Civil War! America's First Civil War was fought on October 7, 1780 at the Battle of King's Mountain! This is the story of that First Civil War.

British Generals had an epiphany after losing at Saratoga. Rebel Riflemen from the frontier were deadly. Able to drop British officers at hundreds of yards with but a single shot, usually from concealment, they were greatly feared. How could the Crown respond? At first, rifles were imported from England, but they were too few. A greater and faster response was needed. It was only then that the realization came that rebel militia could be countered by simply raising loyalist militia!

But, where could loyalist militia be raised, armed with Kentucky Long Rifles? The only place was the Tidewater areas of the Carolinas. Many loyalists lived there! So, General Cornwallis headed south, with his secret plan to raise loyalist militia. These militia, armed with rifles, could protect his left flank as he would proceed up the eastern seaboard, retaking colonies in rebellion, one-by-one. And, he had just the right man for the job, too. Major Patrick Ferguson, from Scotland, was familiar with rifles, having already invented a breech-loading rifle. He was quickly made Royal Inspector of Militia in the Carolinas. He was also brevetted to Colonel, to outrank Majors in the militia, and given orders to establish a loyalist militia armed with Kentucky Long Rifles. Over the next several months, Colonel Ferguson raised a militia of approximately 1,900 men, all armed with Kentucky Long Rifles.

Then, in mid-September, 1780, a lone rebel, a British prisoner, was paroled by Colonel Ferguson. He soon delivered a message to the rugged, freedom-loving, inhabitants of the frontier known as the Over Mountain Men, that if they did not "Desist from their opposition to the British army, and take protection under his standard, he would march his army over the mountains, hang their leaders, and lay their country waste with fire and sword." Colonel Ferguson was threatening to lay waste to the fields, farms, and fortunes of all those who would not swear allegiance to the Crown. He was coming! Allegiance to the Crown must be given!

Who were these Over Mountain Men that Colonel Ferguson threatened? They were descended from Scotch-Irish immigrants, and lived a hard life of liberty on the frontier. British Treaties with the Indians had long prohibited settlements westward over the crest of the Appalachian Mountains. Hunting parties, however, were permitted to explore and hunt in this area, in what is today Kentucky, Tennessee, and West Virginia. Settlement westward, contrary to British Law had started, law or no law. The land was simply too fertile and the hunting too good. Living in an area with no law, the Over Mountain Men had made their own law, too, based upon "Lex Talionis". That is, an Eye for an Eye and a Tooth for a Tooth. The Law of the Feud. Colonel Ferguson had just threatened a people who would not wait placidly for him and his Tory militia to arrive to destroy their fields, farms, families, fortunes, and freedom. Rather, they would bring The Feud to Colonel Ferguson! Colonel Ferguson had made a serious misjudgment!

Their first response to Ferguson's threats was to dispatch scouts to locate his invading Tory militia. Their second response was to muster local militia. Isaac Shelby, John Sevier, John Crockett, and other Over Mountain Men leaders, along with their militia, then set out for Sycamore Shoals, Tennessee, to decide how next to proceed.

Who were these Over Mountain Men leaders? Isaac Shelby would later become the first Governor of Kentucky. John Sevier would later become the first Governor of Tennessee. And, John Crockett would have a son named Davey who would figure prominently at The Alamo. These and other Over Mountain Men leaders individually led companies of local militia of roughly 100-200 men each. Assembling at Sycamore Shoals, Tennessee, over September 24-25, 1780, plans for war were made, all while awaiting reports from scouts sent earlier to locate Ferguson's Tory militia.

Learning of the Over Mountain Men muster of militia at Sycamore Shoals, Ferguson then opted to go to King's Mountain, a high mountain area, where he felt he could establish a firm defensive position on high ground. As he traveled to King's Mountain, Ferguson issued yet a second proclamation to encourage loyalist support, describing the Over Mountain Men's gathering at Sycamore Shoals as "an inundation of barbarians." He further wrote that anyone choosing to side with the Over Mountain Men would "be abused by the dregs of mankind and be pissed upon forever and ever by a set of mongrels." Rather than rouse much needed support, Colonel Ferguson simply fired a more burning resolve among the Over Mountain Men. Oblivious to the furor he was causing, Colonel Ferguson, and upwards of a thousand loyalist militia, marched on and camped on King's Mountain. Having decided neither to retreat to join General Cornwallis at Charlotte nor to reinforce his own position by digging in and fortifying the hill, Ferguson promptly announced that "He was on King's Mountain, that he was king of that mountain, and not even God Almighty himself could drive him from it." No one had seen any rebels for days, anyway. Hence, no defensive fortifications were made. Besides, they had the high ground, which by all military understandings was certainly a sufficient protection in and of itself.

Popular Carolina legend has it that Patrick Ferguson was accompanied on his travels to King's Mountain by two camp women, both named Virginia. Virginia Sal and Virginia Paul were said to be at King's Mountain with the Colonel. As the story goes, Virginia Paul was said to be the spy who left the British army long enough to report to a patriot leader, Captain Lewis, that he would be able to know Ferguson by the bandages on his right arm which forced him to fight left-handed. His wound from the Battle of Brandywine Creek on September 11, 1777, had left him permanently crippled in his right arm. He had been shot by one of Colonel Daniel Morgan's Riflemen. Ferguson would also be wearing a checkered shirt.

Thanking Virginia Paul, the scouts quickly traveled to Sycamore Shoals with the latest intelligence. Upon arriving there, final plans were quickly made by the Over Mountain Men leaders. Half-a-day's ride east of King's Mountain, there were scouting reports that another 200-500 Tory militia were being held in reserve by Colonel Ferguson. And, a full-day's ride east it was additionally reported that the main body of General Cornwallis' troops, with roughly 5,000 regulars, were camped. Obviously, no one could be permitted to escape from atop King's Mountain, for General Cornwallis would be on their heads within a day of being alerted. Secrecy and stealth to the utmost degree would be necessary.

Since these Over the Mountain Men had long hunted in this area, they knew the topography well. They knew all the hunting trails by which to traverse up and down the mountain. It would be easy to put a stopper in the bottle, by simply dividing up Patriot militia, and blocking every possible avenue of escape from atop King's Mountain.

Each of the Patriot militia would be led by their own Captain, and assignments were made of which trail each militia would climb. The plan was made for attacking simultaneously as soon as any engagement occurred on October 7, 1780, with all the Patriot militia simultaneously and stealthily starting up all the mountain trails at daybreak.

It was at this point a major issue was suddenly realized. No one was wearing military uniforms! Neither the Patriot nor Tory militia would be wearing uniforms. They were all militia! They were all citizen soldiers! A means by which to identify, selectively, all of the Patriot militiamen would be needed! Someone went to a nearby Court House, and returned with a ledger, from which pages were quickly cut. Small squares of paper, two per militiaman, were cut from the bound ledger and issued! These were to be kept dry, and only inserted into hat bands on the morning of October 7th, one to be displayed on each side of one's head.

It was also reminded, "Boys, remember, shoot a little low, for it is mighty steep!" These were Riflemen used to hunting and hitting their marks in the mountains, whether shooting up or down steep slopes. Isaac Shelby also advised, "Don't wait for the word of command. Let each one of you be your own officer and do the very best you can." One of the leaders also told the men to "shout like Hell and fight like devils." The original Rebel Yell was born. The die was now cast.

The practice in those days was to take only headshots. Regular marksmanship competitions were done by shooting at targets the size of an orange at 200 yards for fun. Hitting a head, by comparison, was easy. Besides, only a militiaman's head would likely be available for a hit, atop the mountain, against Tories firing from behind cover.

The stealthy assault up King's Mountain begin that day at daybreak. Around 3 PM on October 7th, as approximately 1,500 Patriot continued to move stealthily up King's Mountain, and neared the crest, it was only then that they were spotted! Immediately, the first volleys from each side were fired. Three sorties up the mountain occurred, over the span of roughly 30 minutes, by the Over the Mountain Men. Each time, the practice was to move within range, find a mark by which to aim, take one well-aimed shot, then retreat back down the mountain, until once more out of range of the Tory militia, and reload. Everyone was taking headshots, on both sides.

Sensing an immediate defeat as the death toll mounted in the first few sorties, Colonel Patrick Ferguson then ordered his militia to use a bayonet charge, to drive the rebels back. The death toll atop the mountain continued to mount, and Colonel Ferguson was now planning on riding through the attacking Rebel militia lines on horseback, to escape to General Cornwallis' camp. A Patriot Rifleman shot Colonel Ferguson, knocking him out of his saddle, but his foot caught in the stirrup. He was quickly dragged by his horse, midst the smoke and cacophony of shooting. Six more bullets soon quietened his breathing, forever. Virginia Paul was also shot and killed in Ferguson's final stand. With their leader fallen, the remainder of the Tory militia quickly surrendered. The Battle of King's Mountain was over in less than 40 minutes. A Loyalist later claimed that the Over Mountain Men yelled and whooped continuously while attacking and looked "like devils from the infernal regions… tall, raw-boned, sinewy with long matted hair."

Upon tallying up the death toll, approximately 290 of the Tory militia were dead. Only 29 of the Patriot militia were dead. Why such a 10-fold difference in the outcomes of shooting? Both sides had accomplished marksman! They were all Riflemen! Why the difference? Historians, too, have long wondered why the outcome of the battle was what it was. Everyone "knows" that the advantage always belongs to those on the high ground, in such an encounter. But, it did not happen here? Why not? Riflemen know the answer, however.

Riflemen know that come-ups when shooting at a distance of 300 yards are approximately 6 Minutes-of-Angle (MOA) versus when shooting at 100 yards, where most rifles are sighted-in. That is, if you are sighted-in at 100 yards, and wish to hit your mark at 300 yards, you must aim about 18 inches high at 300 yards, to hit your target, when shooting on flat ground. But, when shooting either down or up steep slopes of about 60 degrees, the proper come-up for shooting at 300 yards is to aim as if shooting at an equivalent distance of only 150 yards on flat ground. That is, your come-ups are roughly 4.5 MOA, instead of 6 MOA. But, this difference in come-ups equates to a need of aiming only 13 inches high, instead of 18 inches high, above a militiaman's head!

The flat landers from the Tidewater areas of the Carolinas were flatlander Riflemen, only. When aiming at the center of a man's head as if on level ground, their shots went about 5 inches high, on average, placing their bullets just above the heads of the Patriot militiamen. The Patriot militiamen, remembering, "Boys, shoot a little low", had much better hit percentages. A 10:1 difference in outcomes, occurred, between militia trained to equivalent standards.

There is a lesson for Riflemen, here. Know your come-ups when shooting up and down steep slopes!

After Ferguson's body was recovered, it was stripped of clothing, wrapped in a coarse ox hide, placed in a shallow grave and, true to his proclamation, "pissed upon" by the Over Mountain Men.

General Cornwallis' plan to proceed up the eastern seaboard recovering colonies, one-by-one, was destroyed by American Riflemen. American Riflemen would continuously harass his soldiers at every turn, preferentially taking down officers. The Battle of King's Mountain was a major turning point in the Revolutionary War, where approximately 1,500 Patriot militiamen faced off against a Tory militiamen force of approximately 1,500 militiamen. This battle was fought about 9 miles south of the modern day community of King's Mountain, NC, just over the state line in South Carolina. Only one sole British officer was present, Colonel Patrick Ferguson. America's First Civil War was fought on October 7, 1780, during the Revolutionary War, over 80 years before America's Second Civil War commenced in April 1861.
--------------------------------------------------
1st Appleseed:           04/20/2013 - Palm Bay, FL
Rifleman:                   02/01/2014 - Palm Bay, FL
Cleared 1st Redcoat:   02/02/2014 - Palm Bay, FL
1st KD:  Palm Bay 8/14
1st IBC:  Dunnellon 4/15
Palm Bay 4/17 KD Rifleman
Palm Bay 10/20 Rimfire KD Rifleman
NRA Certified (Rifle and Pistol Instructor, RSO)

O.___.                            
  )V        O.___.                    
  /%       ( V       ,____    O.___.
/  %      o/L         ,___--- V

FiremanBob

Guntuckian, that's a great piece of writing. Perhaps it should have nationwide distribution in the Appleseed Newsletter.
Author of "The 10/22 Companion: How to Operate, Troubleshoot, Maintain and Improve Your Ruger 10/22"

"Remember constantly that a nation cannot long remain strong when each man in it is individually weak, and that neither social forms nor political schemes have yet been found that can make a people energetic by composing it of pusillanimous and soft citizens." - de Tocqueville