Author Topic: # RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019  (Read 832 times)

Offline TaosGlock

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# RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« on: September 17, 2019, 04:46:08 PM »
Project Appleseed just completed another fantastic Unknown Distance Event. We had 14 folks, 9 instructors and 5 shooters who had attended at least one Appleseed. All from Wyoming, Colorado, Idaho, Arizona and our local crew from New Mexico. Almost half the shooters built up rifles specifically for this course!



This course puts into action the duties of a Rifleman which are only briefly discussed in our standard 2 day event. These universal skills include target detection, range estimation estimating the wind and finally taking the shot by applying the fundamentals.  In essence, this Unknown Distance Rifle Course is a field expedient precision rifle course as target distances were from 285 to 1123 yards and included 15 targets.

A Rifleman is a man/woman who can make first round hits from prone at unknown distances, under unknown conditions, on demand and against the clock.-Jeff Cooper.

As this is an Unknown Distance precision rifle course, there are no AQT’s shot nor Rifleman patches awarded.  What you leave with is a sense of confidence that you can quickly and effectively engage 2-4 moa targets from 285 to 945 yards.  Actually 1123 if you count the 5x8 moa White Buffalo on the other range.
Either slung up prone or bipods/shooting packs are allowed for this unknown distance course.

This type shoot can only be effectively taught at the 33,000 acres of wilderness at the NRA Whittington Center.  We used the private Coors Range that backs up to Willow Canyon.
Here we encounter cross canyon winds of not only different direction but of speed, which adds an extra challenge for the Rifleman.

Instruction on the line by Long Rifle:






The very first target shot is 300 yard early morning Redcoat. Each shooter fires one at a time as to hear the impact or not.  Our shooters were obviously sighted in before arriving, as this was requirement for the course.



“The most important item of equipment that a Rifleman can have in his possession is a well zeroed rifle”.-Unit Marksmanship Training Program of Instruction, How to do it Guide. USAMU (1979), p.73
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 05:28:35 PM by TaosGlock »
89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

Offline TaosGlock

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2019, 04:49:58 PM »
The changing light in the real world of a Rifleman is dynamic.
Notice the difference from the above pic in the late afternoon when simply on the initial square range/sight in portion of our shoot.

Sleepy at the Battle Sight Zero man size target.



Once our targets are hidden they are hard to detect.
In good light some are easy. Like these...for now at least in the early morning sun.
The one in the background is blue-green with a tan border.




Later in the day it looks like this up close.  From 450 yards it nearly disappears.
The shape is all one can detect.




Fred sez...”Your job as a Rifleman involves target detection, range estimation and firing an accurate shot-in  that order of difficulty.
If you can’t see the target, you as a Rifleman can still hit it, but if you don’t detect it, you never fire the shot.”



As Master Gunnery Sgt. of the 1st Marine Div., Guadacanal 1942 said
“Teach them to look in the air and trees and to learn where the enemy likely will be.”


Measuring such targets such as the ones above will eventually allow the Rifleman to determine the distance.

However, this can be difficult as there may be no contrast between the target and the surroundings especially in the shadows. 

In the shadows, any target can be difficult regardless of the light.
Look for a shape that does not appear in nature.

Like this man size steel AQT set in a tree at 545 yards



Or this tan one at 580 yards.




Good glass with a power of about 10x50 helps.  A good scope, especially if it’s in a MOA or MIL based reticle subtension makes ranging and hitting easier.
Remember, incorrect range estimation accounts for more misses than bad wind calls or a failure to apply the fundamentals.


Rilflery is a skill that must be ground into a fine edge by a competent instructor.
As many a Redcoat discovered on April 19th, 1775:

“The most deadly weapon on any battlefield is the single well aimed shot”-Capt. Jim Land USMC, Sniper School Instructor Vietnam 1966.

The Minutemen of Concord did not stand around quoting Locke to the Redcoats, they shot them early, often and very effectively....all the way back to Boston.

As Admiral Farragut would later say, : “The best defense is well directed fire from your own rifles.”

And as Major Buttrick said at the North Bridge of Concord on April 19th, 1775, "Fire, fellow soldiers! For God's sake fire! Fire as fast as you can!"

..more later as we are just getting caught up.


« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 07:55:18 PM by Guntuckian »
89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

Offline Colorado Pete

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2019, 01:38:05 AM »
Now that brings back some fond memories of shoots there. I hope to be able to help out the NM crew again in the not-too-distant future.
"Good shooting is good execution of the fundamentals. Great shooting is great execution of the fundamentals. X's are what you want. Tens are okay, but nines indicate you've got a problem" - Jim Starr
"The purpose of shooting is hitting" - Jeff Cooper

Offline peterlandsiedel

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2019, 01:47:34 PM »
When is the next UKD shoot?  I may have to make the trip to NM from MT...

Offline Snow Snake

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2019, 02:08:21 PM »
 To my friend Sleepy        :snipersmi    and the rest of the crew,
 I am so envious of all of you,looks like a great learning opportunity.     
      Ken     
Without Knowledge,Skill cannot be focused.Without Skill,Strength cannot be brought to bear and without Strength,Knowledge may not be applied.
   - Alexander The Great
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Offline TaosGlock

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2019, 02:20:40 PM »
When is the next UKD shoot?  I may have to make the trip to NM from MT...
Due to popular demand we may do two of these next year. The first one filled up in a few weeks.
Months are likely May and Sept. However all dates are dependent on range availability.
Hope to see you there!
89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

Offline peterlandsiedel

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2019, 02:39:06 PM »
I'll put a reminder in my calendar.  This looks like a really good opportunity.

Online Tennessee Beast

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2019, 03:03:45 PM »
Keep us posted on the dates.  I want to attend one in the near future (next year?).
In giving us dominion over the animal kingdom, God has signified His will that we subdue the beast within ourselves.
John Lancaster Spalding

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, 1775

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“[T]o preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them…”
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Offline TaosGlock

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2019, 05:00:14 PM »
More detecting, ranging and shooting goodness. Don't have my notes... %) so figures are rounded out from memory.
500+ yards. 2 MOA



Rifleman's Quarter Mile:  5x4 MOA


600 yards: 2 1/2 MOA


710 yards: 2 x 1 1/2 MOA


675 yards: 2 x 1 1/2 MOA


Looking back at the line from the four hundred something yard target thru a narrow shooting window.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 07:33:50 PM by TaosGlock »
89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

Offline TaosGlock

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2019, 07:33:01 PM »
Calibers present were all 6.5 Creedmoor except for a 270 Win and a 6.5 Grendel.
All capable to 1125 yards as “truth tested” in the field at this event.
Suitable rifle calibers for a course like this include all 223 class of cartridges,
308, 30-06, 300 Blackhawk, etc. Scoped rifles absolutely work best although the course has been
successfully ran by open sighted service and military bolt action rifles.
A scope with MIL or MOA hashmarks makes life fast and efficient for the Rifleman. 
However any type reticle can be measured and used.

Sleepy instructing:




BlueFeather readying a presentation with Captain:



A wind meter that talks to your I-devices:



For target detection and range estimation, any rifles used were put on the bench only to
allow for less movement when using optics.  We are afterall teaching the fundamentals.
In the real world this would be done different.

Below: Jacob and David work as a spotting team.



Lawrence carefully measures a target while Sleepy looks on.


At 300 yards this is what a 1 MIL square and a 4 MOA square look like..
Shooters used this to check the quality of their optics in regard to their reticle subtensions.



A range map is made by each shooter as to the location of the target. Then it is measured in MOA’s or MILS.
Then we tell them the inches and they then use the formula to determine the range to the target. 
Their data is compared to the lasered range and any disparities are discussed.

Below, Mitchell carefully records data, while Zack next to him locates a target and down the line, Sleepy and desert_diver
discuss a hidden target.



Time to shoot.  Rifles zeroed at Battle Sight Zero-300 yards.
 Shooters will now use their range map with distances and engage targets.
A generic ballistic sheet is passed out using data from ballistic tables and fine tuned using
Density Altitude acquired from our neighboring airport using a free App.
With a spotter to help call the shot, all shooting data was fine tuned and recorded.
Each shooter left with data points from 300-1123 yards using a specific ammo in their rifle,
at the Whittington Center with those environmental conditions on that day.

Below, captain spots for Ridgerunner



Zack, me and desert_diver spot hits while Mitch checks his come-ups at 945 yards with his
270 Win-a most capable cartridge in a 6.5 world.



Mitch's pile of 270 brass after a round of fast and furious target engagement.


Zack writes down a confirmed come-up in his log book with his 6.5.


Carlos and Barry shoot while Long Rifle helps call the shot.


Penny's Dad has an M1A in 6.5 Creedmoor!


Sleepy watches the line while Chrono engages targets.


« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 12:24:49 AM by TaosGlock »
89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

Offline Captain

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2019, 09:51:11 PM »
Wow! What a fantastic event! I can't thank TaosGlock, BlueFeather, Long Rifle and Sleepy enough for a great event. We shooters definitely reaped the rewards of their hard work and 10 years of improvements they've made - a world class course and Appleseed event at a world class facility. There were many highlights but successfully moving through a range card engaging hidden steel targets from inside 300 yards to outside 900 was pretty awesome! The instuctors down in Raton last weekend really went above and beyond to help some rifle shooters learn more of the skills of a Rifleman. If you get an opportunity to attend, don't get left out.

Offline TaosGlock

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2019, 01:38:15 AM »
We head down the road a bit to the White Buffalo for the final shoot at 1123 yards.
Depending on cartridge one may have to add 7- 12 MOA or 1 1/2 to 3 MIL's 
from the 945 yard data point back at the Coors Range.
Time of flight to target, depending on cartridge, averages 1 1/2 seconds. It takes nearly 3 seconds
due to the speed of sound to hear the report on the 5x8 MOA target. So after the gun goes bang,
it will be almost 4 seconds before one can hear the 'whock' on the steel target.

But now it is time to get back to our Rifleman roots.
We complete the bipod rifle shooting and record the come-ups required for 1123 yards.

Then...out comes the Garands.  Anyone who wants can shoot.

BlueFeather spots while Captain shoots, followed by the rest of the remaining crew.



The target seems a long ways away in the waning light. The wind was blowing hard, but from our backs.
So the bullets were actually impacting about a minute higher or so with the HXP surplus.



Here is the freshly painted White Buff up close.
Rambling Wreck on the left and me on the right.

« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 10:30:37 AM by TaosGlock »
89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

Offline TaosGlock

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2019, 01:51:00 AM »
As long as there is evil and oppression in the form of tyranny we will need Rifleman. 
We will need men and women who believe in Liberty and who take seriously those values that make us
 American and who are willing to fight to preserve our heritage. 

We need patriots, from all walks of life, like those brave men, women and children who stepped out
 into the darkness and dawn of April 19th, 1775
and did nothing less than birth a new nation on the principles of effective marksmanship.

They fought against an evil that hopefully America will never see again. 
However if it does, the American Rifleman will once again rise up and face it.
 



« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 10:29:02 AM by TaosGlock »
89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

Offline desert_diver

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2019, 11:23:21 PM »
I've attended this class several times and always learned something new.  It is definitely worthwhile.


Offline sleepy

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2019, 08:36:24 PM »
This shoot format is constantly in evolution, so always a "first time" no matter how often you come back. It's very much a labor of love on the part of Gill, Dan, and Alan; and very much appreciated by all of us attending.

It's a test of man and rifle if you're shooting, even extending to us working in support. A part of my teaching assignments was understanding mil-dot (a growing presence on the line), And I just couldn't wrap my head around it. Thanks for stepping up to pass along your knowledge, Rob.

Offline Grandpa Chuckie

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2019, 12:29:36 PM »
WOW!!! This is my goal, to attend the "Unknown Distance" event! But being a newbie, I'll continue taking baby steps to get there, like attend the "Known Distance" first. TaosGlock, we haven't met, but can't wait! I want to hang around ones who are better than me, but small steps first. I just want to go and watch you guys!! The info you guys give here makes me want to sign up. Keep posting!! I'm working my way to being there!! Thank you!!

PS: Get that lovely lab from behind the target!! LOL.
“Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.” – Edmund Burke

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Offline TaosGlock

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2019, 01:00:44 AM »
WOW!!! This is my goal, to attend the "Unknown Distance" event! But being a newbie, I'll continue taking baby steps to get there, like attend the "Known Distance" first. TaosGlock, we haven't met, but can't wait! I want to hang around ones who are better than me, but small steps first. I just want to go and watch you guys!! The info you guys give here makes me want to sign up. Keep posting!! I'm working my way to being there!! Thank you!!

PS: Get that lovely lab from behind the target!! LOL.
The only requirement is a two day Appleseed.
No need for a KD event.  You are good to go!
89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

Offline AdobeWalls

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2019, 12:07:56 AM »
I attended this UKD course in Fall 2016 with Ken Tomblin - and of course Dan and his crew. I was pretty skeptical about the entire thing beforehand, and disparaged it as "an Easter Egg Hunt with rifles." But I went anyway. Well, I was dead wrong about the course - it had never occurred to me to tune my 300yd zero with my AR-10 - that's how wrong I was (for starts). Now I do it with every rifle I own on Ken's 400yd KD range. That's the zero that counts!
Ken Tomblin vectored me onto a couple top-of-the-distant-hillside targets that I never actually saw - that was an eye-opener too, and I was able to get hits on those targets with my 2d round each time. Good spotter! Now I understand why the spotter is usually the better shooter in a sniper team.
In the end, for the White Buffalo target, Ken Tomblin used a mat and a sling with his AR-10 to hit the White Buffalo. His first shot was centered, low, between the buffalo's feet. He fired a second, same aiming point - that's how you do it when you don't have a spotter - verified it, same result. Then he made some unannounced mental calculation, and hit with his third shot. I watched his hits though my scope, and understood. He's way better than me! I put my rifle on a bipod for the first time ever, Ken had advised to come up 11mils from my 300yd zero, and I held on top of the White Buffalo hump - ALWAYS hold on hair! - the Wyoming rule - and hit 3 out of 3. Then I dropped my mag, made my rifle safe and cased it, went to sit off by myself and think about what I had just done. I didn't know I could do that until I did it. That's why I'm in Appleseed.
Many thanks to TaosGlock, BlueFeather and LongRifle that year for good instruction all around. There's no place like the Whittington Center!
But you and all the kind of Christ are ignorant and brave,
And you have wars you hardly win, and souls you hardly save.
                            Chesterton, Ballad of the White Horse, 1911

The easy way is always mined.  Murphy's Law of Combat Infantry

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn no other way.  Twain

Offline TaosGlock

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Re: # RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2019, 05:34:07 PM »
Here are the UKD Dates for 2020, hot off the press:
Find it, range it,  shoot it and record it on you personal DOPE card.
See post in the NM Forum for more specifics...

May 9-10
Aug. 22-23
Oct. 3-4


All at the Coors Range!


A huge thanks to the Founders who sacrifced their all to make our current Liberty possible!
A huge thanks to the WC staff for all your continued support of Project Appleseed!
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 05:36:03 PM by TaosGlock »
89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

Offline Ramblin' Wreck

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2019, 09:30:24 AM »
Not many things are more rewarding than hearing the THWAK of a projectile on steel at a great distance. In 2018 when I helped Dan run the Adventure Camp at WC for youth in June and July we had a lot of time to shoot when we had nothing going on. One day we spent a couple of hours at the white buffalo range and we both had iron sights only. I was shooting my M1A Super Match. After taking about 5 shots to determine come-ups at 1123 yards it was no problem to empty the mag on the buffalo from prone using only the sling. Still looking for a challenge we decided to try it standing. No problem and we have video to prove it.  ;D   Most of us have a safe full of rifles but you better have at least one that you know well enough to make that hit on a target at least 500 yards away. All my go-to rifles have a 300 yard zero with a matching ammo/mag bag with ammo for it nearby.

Dan has the perfect range at WC for UKD and he has a fantastic COF for it. I hope to go back out and shoot with him sometime in the not too distant future.
Wreck

I attended this UKD course in Fall 2016 with Ken Tomblin - and of course Dan and his crew. I was pretty skeptical about the entire thing beforehand, and disparaged it as "an Easter Egg Hunt with rifles." But I went anyway. Well, I was dead wrong about the course - it had never occurred to me to tune my 300yd zero with my AR-10 - that's how wrong I was (for starts). Now I do it with every rifle I own on Ken's 400yd KD range. That's the zero that counts!
Ken Tomblin vectored me onto a couple top-of-the-distant-hillside targets that I never actually saw - that was an eye-opener too, and I was able to get hits on those targets with my 2d round each time. Good spotter! Now I understand why the spotter is usually the better shooter in a sniper team.
In the end, for the White Buffalo target, Ken Tomblin used a mat and a sling with his AR-10 to hit the White Buffalo. His first shot was centered, low, between the buffalo's feet. He fired a second, same aiming point - that's how you do it when you don't have a spotter - verified it, same result. Then he made some unannounced mental calculation, and hit with his third shot. I watched his hits though my scope, and understood. He's way better than me! I put my rifle on a bipod for the first time ever, Ken had advised to come up 11mils from my 300yd zero, and I held on top of the White Buffalo hump - ALWAYS hold on hair! - the Wyoming rule - and hit 3 out of 3. Then I dropped my mag, made my rifle safe and cased it, went to sit off by myself and think about what I had just done. I didn't know I could do that until I did it. That's why I'm in Appleseed.
Many thanks to TaosGlock, BlueFeather and LongRifle that year for good instruction all around. There's no place like the Whittington Center!
KD Requal 2/22/19 at 600 yards AR15 Service Rifle 50/50
25m Requal 2/1/2020 with AR15 scored 247
130 events as of 1/1/2020

Beware of an old man who still shoots iron sights.

Offline TaosGlock

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Re: AAR RATON, NM NRA WC UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOT Sept. 14-15, 2019
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2019, 09:36:45 PM »
Not many things are more rewarding than hearing the THWAK of a projectile on steel at a great distance. In 2018 when I helped Dan run the Adventure Camp at WC for youth in June and July we had a lot of time to shoot when we had nothing going on. One day we spent a couple of hours at the white buffalo range and we both had iron sights only. I was shooting my M1A Super Match. After taking about 5 shots to determine come-ups at 1123 yards it was no problem to empty the mag on the buffalo from prone using only the sling. Still looking for a challenge we decided to try it standing. No problem and we have video to prove it.  ;D   Most of us have a safe full of rifles but you better have at least one that you know well enough to make that hit on a target at least 500 yards away. All my go-to rifles have a 300 yard zero with a matching ammo/mag bag with ammo for it nearby.

Dan has the perfect range at WC for UKD and he has a fantastic COF for it. I hope to go back out and shoot with him sometime in the not too distant future.
Wreck

I attended this UKD course in Fall 2016 with Ken Tomblin - and of course Dan and his crew. I was pretty skeptical about the entire thing beforehand, and disparaged it as "an Easter Egg Hunt with rifles." But I went anyway. Well, I was dead wrong about the course - it had never occurred to me to tune my 300yd zero with my AR-10 - that's how wrong I was (for starts). Now I do it with every rifle I own on Ken's 400yd KD range. That's the zero that counts!
Ken Tomblin vectored me onto a couple top-of-the-distant-hillside targets that I never actually saw - that was an eye-opener too, and I was able to get hits on those targets with my 2d round each time. Good spotter! Now I understand why the spotter is usually the better shooter in a sniper team.
In the end, for the White Buffalo target, Ken Tomblin used a mat and a sling with his AR-10 to hit the White Buffalo. His first shot was centered, low, between the buffalo's feet. He fired a second, same aiming point - that's how you do it when you don't have a spotter - verified it, same result. Then he made some unannounced mental calculation, and hit with his third shot. I watched his hits though my scope, and understood. He's way better than me! I put my rifle on a bipod for the first time ever, Ken had advised to come up 11mils from my 300yd zero, and I held on top of the White Buffalo hump - ALWAYS hold on hair! - the Wyoming rule - and hit 3 out of 3. Then I dropped my mag, made my rifle safe and cased it, went to sit off by myself and think about what I had just done. I didn't know I could do that until I did it. That's why I'm in Appleseed.
Many thanks to TaosGlock, BlueFeather and LongRifle that year for good instruction all around. There's no place like the Whittington Center!

Those were good times indeed!
Hope you all can make it out here again!
89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
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