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Laramie Wyoming UNKNOWN DISTANCE AAR 02-03Nov2019

Started by M1bzrk, November 02, 2019, 06:29:06 PM

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M1bzrk

Well the action is still going on, but thought I'd start this for Alan and Dan.  I could only stay for the initial instruction, but I was very impressed.  LongRifle and Taos Glock are a great team and keep things interesting and informative.  Had not seen LR in 10 years or so and had never met Taos Glock before.
Wish I could have joined the folks on the line; they are a small but enthusiastic bunch and I know it's going to be a great shoot.  Thanks to sleepy for getting things organised, and to Norm for coming all the way from Rock Springs, as well as Ryan from Colo, and Caitlin and Steve from Cheyenne - via Connecticut - and of course TG from New Mexico and LR from Colorado.  Hope you can all return to the Laramie Rifle Range!

TaosGlock

#1
An amazing wintery UKD.  Quite balmy by Wyoming standards. What a rugged lot of patriots and a Wyoming crew that is most welcoming. It was  an honor to meet you M1bzrk. You and your Appleseed  patriots  have done great things to advance liberty in your state.  A huge thanks to the folks at the Laramie Rifle Range for their support and thanks to sleepy for doing the logistics to make this shoot happen. :bow:
All shooters at this event qualified to 800 yards.

Still on the road so I will get more up later....
89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director/Current Lead Rifle Instructor: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

sleepy

#2
Great shoot! My only regrets are that so few had the chance to enjoy it.

I wanted to make a quick mention of the (not completely; thanks Dan!) unsung heroes behind the shoot; the Laramie Rifle Range. A labor of love, this range was carved out of the Rockies bit-by-bit over the last thirty years. The results are an incredible centerfire playground up in the canyon; a 1000yd KD / 1200yd steel course to challenge man and rifle.

With lots of support from the range board and a little help coaxed from Appleseed by the late DrRichP, a Rimfire KD range (five berms over 100m allowing for inexpensive .22lr simulation of a centerfire known distance course) and full-distance (100-400m) KD range were seamlessly integrated into the existing 1000yd range.

Thanks to the board, and to our Appleseed instructors on the board. Your hard work, vision,and attention to detail made our job a lot easier, and better results possible.

And anyone looking for a great rifleman's vacation would do well to check out what the Laramie Rifle Range has to offer before finalizing their plans.

Captain

That is a beautiful range and I can't believe all the work they did to make it so great for the Appleseed events. I've told a few people about the fixed firing position and having targets simultaneously out at 100-200-300-400 yards for a full distance AQT - just perfect! I wish I could have seen (and shot) the UKD you all had put together there. That range is definitely a liberty maker  :)
There's things that gnaw on a man worse than dyin'. - Open Range

Shep

Sounds like a very interesting shoot.

I'd love to come give the unknown distance a try some day, but perhaps with a little better weather!

Shep
"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." -Thomas Jefferson

TaosGlock

#5
Wyoming's First Unknown Distance Event!

Below, a Redcoat steel targets attempts to hide in a snow drift.


Getting to Wyoming involved traveling from here in northern New Mexico. 
This time of year the weather offers many challenges.
Snow hammered the Rockies a day before I drove up and the nearly 35 some 14,000' peaks
I observed from the road were clearly hammered with snow. 

On one pass I just got there the moment they lifted the chain law. 



After crossing 3 passes to nearly 10,000 feet I eventually rolled
down into the brown cloud of Denver where one deals with the sheeple hordes on I-25.

I spent the night in Ft. Collins and then Long Rifle and I headed into Wyoming the next day.

Chain law lifted, you may now proceed down road.


Good weather on the other side of the passes.  The black ice had melted.







Upon entering the Wyoming border it started to snow, then turned into a full on blizzard.







Still snowing. Just inside the Laramie Rifle Range and heading into our own private mile long canyon.








End of the road, time to hump steel and hide targets.



...more later as I get caught up.
89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director/Current Lead Rifle Instructor: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

TaosGlock

#6
This course puts into action the duties of a Rifleman which are only briefly discussed in our
standard 2 day event. These universal skills include target detection, range estimation, estimating the wind and finally taking the shot by applying the fundamentals.  In essence, this Unknown Distance Rifle Course
is a field expedient precision rifle course as target distances were from 245 to 801 yards and included 9 targets.


A Rifleman is a man/woman who can make first round hits from prone at
unknown distances, under unknown conditions, on demand and against the clock.-Jeff Cooper.


As this is an Unknown Distance precision rifle course, there are no AQT's shot nor Rifleman patches awarded. 
What you leave with is a sense of confidence that you can quickly and effectively engage 2-4 moa targets
from 245 to 805 yards.   
Either slung up prone or bipods/shooting packs are allowed for this unknown distance course.


There was the snowy side of the canyon and the windblown side of the canyon. 
This was a huge bonus for our target detection part of this course.
It was like having two vastly opposing target detection areas.

All these targets will be located, noted on a range map and later measured with your scope reticle.
Modern reticle systems based on a MIL or MOA based series of hashmarks makes this process fast and precise on small targets.
Mil dots work fine.  Even a typical duplex or the front sight can work as a measuring device, though slower and a bit less precise.

Long Rifle heads back to the snowy side for more steel.




This shootable man size torso steel balanced on the rock at 653 yards shape blends in nicely with the other
rounded features and was later custom cammoed to match the immediate area.
It was the hardest to detect and for part of the day we thought it had blown over or someone had snuck
in and took it. As the end of the day, when the light changed, we finally caught part of the edge.  Good job LR with the cammo job.




This classic IDPA man size torso shape at 659 yards differs significantly from the rounded rocks and will only stand out
in the right light. Long Rifle and sleepy make sure it is cammoed to match the brush as closely as possible.




This small white target represents a man size torso at 904 yards but is only 252 yards away.
Long Rifle and sleepy hang it carefully. Placed at a 45 degree angle to the firing line it is only half of its measured width.



An old wooden stock and broken scope are put to good use.




Long Rifle and sleepy hiking back up in the deep snow to the snowy side of the canyon for more steel.



In the deep snow and next to the bush this man size torso steel at 469 yards will be hard to spot in any condition.
We made it harder by moving it to a place where our tracks were not visible.




Long Rifle with two pieces of steel. The small red one represents a man size torso at a over 2000 yards!
The other large piece was painted blue-green and hung in such a way to make a shape that required careful
observation to discern what it was. 
From  551 yards it actually looked like a guy with a red watch cap, tan coat and blue-green pants.




Are we having fun yet...the class has not even begun!


...Oh, and before I forget:

"Mountainous terrain held by Riflemen who know what they are about cannot be militarily defeated"-Bubbert's Law of Military Topography

And speaking of mountainous terrain. From the 800 yard target just an hour before sundown. Looking West to the Laramie Mountains and the Snowy Mountains.


...more later as I get caught up.

89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director/Current Lead Rifle Instructor: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

TaosGlock

#7
Up before sun to set the very first COF-the 300 yard Redcoat



The sun is just coming up and drenching the Laramie Mountains and Snowy Range in a warm glow.



And yes, it is a bit cold.  The high winds scoured much of the snow away.



And then it's back to the clubhouse to greet the shooters by 8:00.

89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director/Current Lead Rifle Instructor: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

TaosGlock

#8

"The most important item of equipment that a Rifleman can have
in his possession is a well zeroed rifle".-Unit Marksmanship Training Program of Instruction,
How to do it Guide. USAMU (1979), p.73


Fred sez..."Your job as a Rifleman involves target detection, range estimation
and firing an accurate shot-in  that order of difficulty.
If you can't see the target, you as a Rifleman can still hit it, but if you don't detect it, you never
fire the shot."



As Master Gunnery Sgt. of the 1st Marine Div., Guadacanal 1942 said
"Teach them to look in the air and trees and to learn where the enemy likely will be."




The 300 yard Redcoat.



After the safety briefing, we review, Bipod prone, prone, The 6 steps to Firing a Shot, NPOA, IMMC and Rifleman's Cadence. 
We spend time at 25 yards refining our shooting to 4 MOA or less.  It is a mistake to move to fast at his stage of the game.
High winds mean we struggle to keep the targets up.




Outdoor classroom on the line or between two vehicles for a windbreak.




Shooters ask themselves, "where is my group and how big is my group"? 
Always a strict application of advanced talking targets is rigorously applied to each target until we get
4 MOA or less....like Norm.  Later he will adjust elevation.
 



25 yard warm up shooting.




sleepy coaches on the line. Thanks sleepy for some of these pics!

89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director/Current Lead Rifle Instructor: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

TaosGlock

#9

Rilflery is a skill that must be ground into a fine edge by a competent instructor.
As many a Redcoat discovered on April 19th, 1775:

"The most deadly weapon on any battlefield is the single well
aimed shot"-Capt. Jim Land USMC, Sniper School Instructor Vietnam 1966.


The Minutemen of Concord did not stand around quoting Locke to the Redcoats, they shot them early,
often and very effectively....all the way back to Boston.


As Admiral Farragut would later say, : "The best defense is well directed fire
from your own rifles."


And as Major Buttrick said at the North Bridge of Concord on April 19th, 1775,
"Fire, fellow soldiers! For God's sake fire! Fire as fast as you can!"





Shooters are now shooting about 4 MOA and zeroed at 25 yards. So without adjusting their sights
and using the same POA, we have them shoot their first 300 yard group.

Then it's down to the 300 yard target line to check groups.




Each backer has a 1 MOA (for a visual ruler and to re-enforce IMC) and 4 MOA square as an aiming point and
again, to re-emphasize IMC.





Most rifles, from their 25 yard zero, will require a minute or two in elevation (or about a half a Mil) on average to center the 300 yard group for a Battle Sight Zero.

Again, how big is my group and where is my group?
Shooters record shots on a record sheet.






We do this a couple times until we are zeroed at 300 yards.
Then we go back and shoot a group at 25 yards to see where our new near zero is.

This is about the end of our first long and cold day.

89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director/Current Lead Rifle Instructor: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

sleepy


Captain

These are some great pictures from the shoot. Thanks for sharing. I like the new 1 MOA/4 MOA squares - this course is always improving.
There's things that gnaw on a man worse than dyin'. - Open Range

azmule

SWEET!  As much as I dislike snow and cold, I'm jealous.
Talk is cheap because the supply exceeds the demand.

Do or do not - there is no "try."'  -Yoda

Mrs. Smith

Quote from: azmule on November 06, 2019, 09:22:03 PM
SWEET!  As much as I dislike snow and cold, I'm jealous.

Says the man who moved from Arizona to Pennsylvania  **) **) **) **)

Hey, Scott!  ;D
"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't." - Margaret Thatcher

You can have peace, or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once. - Robert A. Heinlein

"A generation which ignores history has no past, and no future." - Lazarus Long

"What we do now echoes in eternity." Marcus Aurelius

Waco 1-17       Waco 1-19     El Paso 7-19       Alamogordo 5-20     Albuquerque 7-21       Houston 8-21 (SBC)    Colorado Springs  2-22 (SBC)    Midland 8-22 (KDIBC)     Albuquerque 2-23      Harvard 5-23      El Paso 12-23 (PIBC)     Phoenix 2-24    El Paso 3-24

TaosGlock

#14
Instructors and shooters checking hits at the 800 yard full size Redcoat steel.
All shooters made 100% hits with their AR-15's using only mil surp ammo!


89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director/Current Lead Rifle Instructor: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

M1bzrk


Shep

Thanks for posting all the photos and info, great write up!

Shep
"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." -Thomas Jefferson

elitegeek

"The truth of the matter is that you always know the right thing to do. The hard part is doing it."
                             -General H. Norman Schwarzkopf



Son of the American Revolution
      Pvt Sanford Carder, Virginia (b: 16 Sept, 1760 - d: 7 Aug 1845)
     Pvt Jacob Rose, New York (b: 21 April, 1761 - d: 20 Aug, 1839)

TaosGlock

#18
Time for target detection and range estimation.
Still cold.

Shooters took about an hour to find as many targets as they could out of the 9 total. Take your time here,  if you can't detect you cannot shoot it!
Then we gave them some hints to find the ones they did yet find.
They made a range map to find them again during the range estimation exercise that followed.

Then they measured them with their scope reticle. This figure was either in MOA's or MIL's. 
Then we ran it thru a distance formula to get the distance.  Then they compared their results with the
actual measured distance.  We then discussed any variations.

These targets, the steel ones,  were then used to shoot and were at non-100 yard intervals. 
Thus the shooters had to apply their come ups accordingly.  Generally, the standard set of come ups for mils or moa's works fine on this size target.

Spotters watched for bullet trace to help determine how hi or low a shot was.
Wind was to our rear all day with no value.  Shooters shoot one at a time so we can hear the impact on steel. 
Then they record come up data from the last shot. Targets are shot from near to far.

Looking east into the target detection area.  They're out there.  They're everywhere.




This requires the careful spotting and recording of possible targets.



Dialing come ups and recording the data. Rocks were placed on the clipboards to keep the data sheets from blowing away.



Shoot that way!



Not this way!!


Antelope are a natural Rifleman's challenge.



Can you spot the 5 shooters walking downrange to check their target?




Final shot looking towards the Laramie from the furthest target at the end of the canyon on this fantastic range.

89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director/Current Lead Rifle Instructor: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

SKSRifleman

Great write up! Looks like you guys had a great time. I need to swing by Raton and see you all again some day. The classes that you guys instructed there a few years ago were awesome.
The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves; whether they are to have any property they can call their own; whether their Houses, and Farms, are to be pillaged and destroyed, and they consigned to a State of Wretchedness from which no human efforts will probably deliver them." - George Washington - July 2, 1776

"Like it or not, everything is changing. The result will be the most wonderful experience in the history of man or the most horrible enslavement that you can imagine. Be active or abdicate, the future is in your hands." - William Cooper