Author Topic: "Advanced" Rifleman patches  (Read 8649 times)

Offline Mrs. Smith

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"Advanced" Rifleman patches
« on: October 24, 2017, 08:23:05 AM »
Hey,  y'all.  Some time back,  maybe as much as a year ago,  I remember reading about new patches in development as incentive to keep folks coming back to shoots even if they've already gotten their Rifleman patch. It was,  as I recall,  a special patch for 230+ with iron sights,  and 240+ with optics.

I can't find any reference to them now.  Whatever happened with that?
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." - Robert A. Heinlein

"A generation which ignores history has no past, and no future." - Lazarus Long

"I will accept the rules that you feel are necessary for YOUR freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." - Robert A. Heinlein

"What we do now echoes in eternity." Marcus Aurelius

"I can kill you with my brain." - River Tam

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Offline carlb

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2017, 10:35:50 AM »
To the best of my knowledge, this was either started or stolen ;) by beswift in Maryland. Not sure if he has kept up these, it was about 5 years ago... Are you trying to start it up or earn one?

Carl

Offline 308LIBERTY

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2017, 12:50:37 PM »
only "advanced" patch that matter says "Full Distance" on it. ;)
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Offline Mrs. Smith

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2017, 02:38:39 PM »
I'm not proposing it.  Somebody already did that.  I'm merely trying to find out its status.  Was the plan scrapped? Or just delayed?
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." - Robert A. Heinlein

"A generation which ignores history has no past, and no future." - Lazarus Long

"I will accept the rules that you feel are necessary for YOUR freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." - Robert A. Heinlein

"What we do now echoes in eternity." Marcus Aurelius

"I can kill you with my brain." - River Tam

Rifleman 5/29/16
Distinguished Rifleman 06/19/19 LADYSEED
KD Rifleman 10/20/19  KD Requal 10/04/20

Offline carlb

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2017, 02:58:12 PM »
I would PM beswift directly. He is a great guy and will know the history/current status.   

Offline Mrs. Smith

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2017, 03:04:58 PM »
I would PM beswift directly. He is a great guy and will know the history/current status.

Thanks!
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." - Robert A. Heinlein

"A generation which ignores history has no past, and no future." - Lazarus Long

"I will accept the rules that you feel are necessary for YOUR freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." - Robert A. Heinlein

"What we do now echoes in eternity." Marcus Aurelius

"I can kill you with my brain." - River Tam

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Distinguished Rifleman 06/19/19 LADYSEED
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Offline PHenry

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2017, 04:19:00 PM »
I would very much like to see three patches. One for 22 rimfire, one for CF and one for KD, as there is an enormous difference. However, this would surely cause great consternation and added expense so might not be worth it in all respects.
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Offline TxRebel

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2017, 04:28:05 PM »
I'm still waiting for word on this as well.  Almost a year ago the AOC put out that they were planning/developing a "designated Rifleman" patch for the following scores.

230+ open sights
240+ Scoped

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Offline Mrs. Smith

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2017, 04:34:53 PM »
I'm still waiting for word on this as well.  Almost a year ago the AOC put out that they were planning/developing a "designated Rifleman" patch for the following scores.

230+ open sights
240+ Scoped

THAT'S what they called it! I couldn't remember
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." - Robert A. Heinlein

"A generation which ignores history has no past, and no future." - Lazarus Long

"I will accept the rules that you feel are necessary for YOUR freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." - Robert A. Heinlein

"What we do now echoes in eternity." Marcus Aurelius

"I can kill you with my brain." - River Tam

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Offline BeSwift

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2017, 06:56:11 PM »
This is something that the AOC approved, and I SOLELY have dropped the ball on... There was a TM issue with the design that I was planning on using, and I need to redesign/rename the patch.  I'll get this on my radar, and hope to have some news by Jan at the latest...   My bad   :wb:
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Offline Mrs. Smith

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2017, 06:59:52 PM »
This is something that the AOC approved, and I SOLELY have dropped the ball on... There was a TM issue with the design that I was planning on using, and I need to redesign/rename the patch.  I'll get this on my radar, and hope to have some news by Jan at the latest...   My bad   :wb:
BeSwift

Sure,  you've got nothing else to do,  right?   ;)

You'll get there,  when you get there. I was just wondering if it was still a "thing. "
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." - Robert A. Heinlein

"A generation which ignores history has no past, and no future." - Lazarus Long

"I will accept the rules that you feel are necessary for YOUR freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." - Robert A. Heinlein

"What we do now echoes in eternity." Marcus Aurelius

"I can kill you with my brain." - River Tam

Rifleman 5/29/16
Distinguished Rifleman 06/19/19 LADYSEED
KD Rifleman 10/20/19  KD Requal 10/04/20

Offline AF5US

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2017, 10:54:09 AM »
BeSwift - Make sure that you ask for a raise.  Considering the time this requires, along with your day job, I think that this patch is probably worth a 5% bump in Project Appleseed pay  ;D

Seriously, though - Thank you for both your work on this, and the update.  Much appreciated!
Rifleman:                          04/2016
Known Distance Rifleman:  10/2018
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Offline RaggedHole

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2017, 03:19:55 PM »
I'm still waiting for word on this as well.  Almost a year ago the AOC put out that they were planning/developing a "designated Rifleman" patch for the following scores.

230+ open sights
240+ Scoped

Awesome, I'll take one  ;D I seem to be stuck on 241 and shot three of them this past weekend in Kansas  :wb: !@#) :wb:

When I do put 4 perfect stages together for a 250, I will definitely be commissioning a gold colored rifleman's patc ..:.. ;) ;D @@) 
[Current Quest] Shoot Rifleman/230+ on a 5 minute "Down & Dirty" AQT. Equipment: 24" Henry Frontier Long Barrel w/ Lyman 17 Front Globe sight & Williams FP-GR-TK rear sights.

First Appleseed: Lewiston, ID 7/16
Rifleman Patch: Lewiston, ID 7/16' [218]
KD Qualified: Ramseur, NC 10/16 [40/50]
Orange Hat: Ramseur, NC 10/16
Personal Best: Waco, TX 4/18 [242/ DISTINGUISHED BADGE :)]

Appleseed Attended In [4/50] States: ID, WA, NC, TX, & KS

Offline Roswell

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2017, 04:02:36 PM »
only "advanced" patch that matter says "Full Distance" on it. ;)

I agree
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Offline Mrs. Smith

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2017, 05:31:09 PM »
h
only "advanced" patch that matter says "Full Distance" on it. ;)

I agree

I guess those of us who live several hundred miles from the nearest KD are just SOL, huh?
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." - Robert A. Heinlein

"A generation which ignores history has no past, and no future." - Lazarus Long

"I will accept the rules that you feel are necessary for YOUR freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." - Robert A. Heinlein

"What we do now echoes in eternity." Marcus Aurelius

"I can kill you with my brain." - River Tam

Rifleman 5/29/16
Distinguished Rifleman 06/19/19 LADYSEED
KD Rifleman 10/20/19  KD Requal 10/04/20

Offline Mrs. Smith

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2017, 06:00:21 PM »
h
only "advanced" patch that matter says "Full Distance" on it. ;)

I agree

I guess those of us who live several hundred miles from the nearest KD are just SOL, huh?
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." - Robert A. Heinlein

"A generation which ignores history has no past, and no future." - Lazarus Long

"I will accept the rules that you feel are necessary for YOUR freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." - Robert A. Heinlein

"What we do now echoes in eternity." Marcus Aurelius

"I can kill you with my brain." - River Tam

Rifleman 5/29/16
Distinguished Rifleman 06/19/19 LADYSEED
KD Rifleman 10/20/19  KD Requal 10/04/20

Offline floydf

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2017, 10:11:33 PM »
I guess those of us who live several hundred miles from the nearest KD are just SOL, huh?

Someone consistently shooting in the 230s at 25 with CF will have no problem at distance.

The most important part about KD is that it can't be shot with rimfire, so it forces folks to put away the rimfire rifles and pull out the CFs.

The reason many folks don't shoot well at distance is b/c they can't shoot their CF rifle all that well at 25.

A very wise man once said "what works at 25 works at distance".  It's one of strongest parts of the Appleseed program.  It's really at the core of the program.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of separate patches for distance.  But there is a huge difference between rimfire at 25 and centerfire at 25.  If it gets people to put away the rimfire and pull out the CF, great.

But you could do that without attending a KD,  And then, when your CF scores at 25 are solid in the 230s, when you go to the KD, you will rock.

Offline AF5US

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2017, 01:14:04 PM »
My .02, for whatever it's worth - FloydF brings up some good points.

Adjusting for a bullet drop at KD wasn't a problem.  I did a little research before-hand - had to tweak it a bit, but it got me in the ballpark.

The bigger challenge for me was dealing with recoil.  Sure, I can get good groupings at 25 yards taking my sweet time.  Now let's try those 10 shots in 65 seconds, toss in a magazine change, and I realize that my prone position was a little sloppy, and as a result I wasn't absorbing the recoil as well as I should have been.

The experience made me a better shooter & a better instructor.
Rifleman:                          04/2016
Known Distance Rifleman:  10/2018
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Offline Mrs. Smith

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2017, 04:03:13 PM »
As I recall,  the purpose of the new patches was incentive for  shooters to keep attending events after they've scored Rifleman. The next "brass ring, " so to speak.

Return shooters = revenue = keeping the lights on.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." - Robert A. Heinlein

"A generation which ignores history has no past, and no future." - Lazarus Long

"I will accept the rules that you feel are necessary for YOUR freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." - Robert A. Heinlein

"What we do now echoes in eternity." Marcus Aurelius

"I can kill you with my brain." - River Tam

Rifleman 5/29/16
Distinguished Rifleman 06/19/19 LADYSEED
KD Rifleman 10/20/19  KD Requal 10/04/20

Offline Nashville Stage

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2017, 05:47:57 PM »
As I recall,  the purpose of the new patches was incentive for  shooters to keep attending events after they've scored Rifleman. The next "brass ring, " so to speak.

Not only that, but it's nice to recognize those shooters who do exceptionally well.

I'm sure it varies from one area to the next, but attendance at KD's has been really low compared to the regular Appleseeds that I've been to. If we can't get people to come to a KD, maybe we can give then another reason to come back to a regular Appleseed (besides being able to hang out with incredibly handsome instructors).  ;)
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Offline Nashville Stage

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2017, 05:52:47 PM »
When I do put 4 perfect stages together for a 250, I will definitely be commissioning a gold colored rifleman's patc ..:.. ;) ;D @@)

Now that's an awesome idea. A gold Rifleman's patch, or at least a gold "250" rocker/tab.
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Offline eaglescouter

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2017, 06:25:28 PM »
I'm still hoping for strips that go under the Rifleman patch that say:

____________________
Iron Sights
____________________
Optics
____________________
Bolt Action
____________________
Semi Auto
____________________
100 Degrees
____________________
32 Degrees
____________________
400 Yards
____________________


We would award no more than two per qualifying Rifleman score on an AQT at an Appleseed.


400 yards because regular people don't understand the concepts of Full Distance or Known Distance.  400 yards tells an understandable story.
32 degrees likewise is understandable
100 degrees likewise is understandable


If you are not achievement oriented then this post means nothing for you.  Carry on.
For those of us who are achievement oriented it means I need more rifleman scores, more Appleseeds, and perhaps another rifle and scope!

Costs and inventory: 
Make these as a single patch, cut edge, not fully embroidered.  = CHEAP
Shoot Boss gets a handful for each shoot, uses scissors to cut the strips apart and issue the earned ones, the others go into inventory for next event.

Actual patch and stitching would be as shown below, the gap between rectangles is the cut line to separate the strips:

____________________________
|                                                      |
|                    OPTICS                      |
|___________________________|
____________________________
|                                                      |
|                IRON SIGHTS                 |
|___________________________|
____________________________
|                                                      |
|                  400 YARDS                   |
|___________________________|
____________________________
|                                                      |
|                 100 DEGREES                |
|___________________________|
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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2017, 08:19:51 PM »
Bling lives!!
aj

Offline Kennebago

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2017, 10:42:10 AM »
IMHO, competency-based bling is, at absolute worst, tolerable. It's just a signal; nonverbal communication counts for a lot sometimes.

Also - in the age of AR15s, I think noise has more to do with centerfire tummy troubles than recoil. Not going to lie, sitting on a concrete slab firing line with a metal roof and 10-15 braked carbines with 16" barrels isn't my favorite thing in the world either. 160+ dB is loud, and giving that sound nowhere to go is totally uncool, bro.

I prefer shooting "out in the elements" on open ranges, by a ton. I grew up behind a drumset, my ears are hosed enough as it is.
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Offline AF5US

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2017, 03:25:56 PM »

Also - in the age of AR15s, I think noise has more to do with centerfire tummy troubles than recoil.

Fair point; I don't necessarily disagree.  For clarification - I was shooting my M1A.  The kick isn't bad, but combined with a sub-optimal body position the recoil was enough to force me to re-adjust and re-acquire NPOA between shots.  If I had taken my AR-15 it might not have been something I even noticed, but my M1A shoots better. 
Rifleman:                          04/2016
Known Distance Rifleman:  10/2018
Distinguished Rifleman:      07/2020

Offline DrRichP

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2018, 04:16:36 AM »
You asked, we heard, and have answered!

Everyone wants that Rifleman patch and now there’s an opportunity to join us on the line again for some extra recognition. 

We are pleased to roll out the Appleseed Distinguished Rifleman designation.  The Distinguished rocker will be awarded to shooters who score 230 or higher using iron sights or 240 or higher using optics on the Appleseed Qualification Test (AQT). 

Ready for a Known Distance (KD) event?  We’ve got new Known Distance rockers as well.  And if you’re really motivated, why not try for that elusive perfect 250?  We’ve got a rocker for that too!  Check out the schedule for an event near you!

DrRichP

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Offline RaggedHole

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2018, 04:33:04 AM »
Great work on making those available, I know from the comments on FB and other 10/22 groups a lot of people are excited about coming back and earning a new patch. Rich, is the Inferno Seed patch still being looked at to be made official?

You asked, we heard, and have answered!

Everyone wants that Rifleman patch and now there’s an opportunity to join us on the line again for some extra recognition. 

We are pleased to roll out the Appleseed Distinguished Rifleman designation.  The Distinguished rocker will be awarded to shooters who score 230 or higher using iron sights or 240 or higher using optics on the Appleseed Qualification Test (AQT). 

Ready for a Known Distance (KD) event?  We’ve got new Known Distance rockers as well.  And if you’re really motivated, why not try for that elusive perfect 250?  We’ve got a rocker for that too!  Check out the schedule for an event near you!


[Current Quest] Shoot Rifleman/230+ on a 5 minute "Down & Dirty" AQT. Equipment: 24" Henry Frontier Long Barrel w/ Lyman 17 Front Globe sight & Williams FP-GR-TK rear sights.

First Appleseed: Lewiston, ID 7/16
Rifleman Patch: Lewiston, ID 7/16' [218]
KD Qualified: Ramseur, NC 10/16 [40/50]
Orange Hat: Ramseur, NC 10/16
Personal Best: Waco, TX 4/18 [242/ DISTINGUISHED BADGE :)]

Appleseed Attended In [4/50] States: ID, WA, NC, TX, & KS

Offline Nashville Stage

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2018, 02:18:41 PM »
Huzzah! That's great! Thank you to those who made this happen.
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Offline Kennebago

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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2018, 04:30:00 PM »
YES!!!!!!!

Are these backdateable, or are all of us going to have to flop down on a mat and requalify?
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Re: "Advanced" Rifleman patches
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2018, 05:22:09 PM »
I thought the patch after Rifleman was the Instructor Rocker, followed up by the Shoot Boss rocker?
Why has this changed?
2cl
"Semper Fritos" 1st. Chicago Chairborne