Hey, y'all. Some time back, maybe as much as a year ago, I remember reading about new patches in development as incentive to keep folks coming back to shoots even if they've already gotten their Rifleman patch. It was, as I recall, a special patch for 230+ with iron sights, and 240+ with optics.
I can't find any reference to them now. Whatever happened with that?
To the best of my knowledge, this was either started or stolen ;) by beswift in Maryland. Not sure if he has kept up these, it was about 5 years ago... Are you trying to start it up or earn one?
Carl
only "advanced" patch that matter says "Full Distance" on it. ;)
I'm not proposing it. Somebody already did that. I'm merely trying to find out its status. Was the plan scrapped? Or just delayed?
I would PM beswift directly. He is a great guy and will know the history/current status.
Quote from: carlb on October 24, 2017, 02:58:12 PM
I would PM beswift directly. He is a great guy and will know the history/current status.
Thanks!
I would very much like to see three patches. One for 22 rimfire, one for CF and one for KD, as there is an enormous difference. However, this would surely cause great consternation and added expense so might not be worth it in all respects.
I'm still waiting for word on this as well. Almost a year ago the AOC put out that they were planning/developing a "designated Rifleman" patch for the following scores.
230+ open sights
240+ Scoped
Quote from: TxRebel on October 24, 2017, 04:28:05 PM
I'm still waiting for word on this as well. Almost a year ago the AOC put out that they were planning/developing a "designated Rifleman" patch for the following scores.
230+ open sights
240+ Scoped
THAT'S what they called it! I couldn't remember
This is something that the AOC approved, and I SOLELY have dropped the ball on... There was a TM issue with the design that I was planning on using, and I need to redesign/rename the patch. I'll get this on my radar, and hope to have some news by Jan at the latest... My bad :wb:
BeSwift
Quote from: BeSwift on October 24, 2017, 06:56:11 PM
This is something that the AOC approved, and I SOLELY have dropped the ball on... There was a TM issue with the design that I was planning on using, and I need to redesign/rename the patch. I'll get this on my radar, and hope to have some news by Jan at the latest... My bad :wb:
BeSwift
Sure, you've got nothing else to do, right? ;)
You'll get there, when you get there. I was just wondering if it was still a "thing. "
BeSwift - Make sure that you ask for a raise. Considering the time this requires, along with your day job, I think that this patch is probably worth a 5% bump in Project Appleseed pay ;D
Seriously, though - Thank you for both your work on this, and the update. Much appreciated!
Quote from: TxRebel on October 24, 2017, 04:28:05 PM
I'm still waiting for word on this as well. Almost a year ago the AOC put out that they were planning/developing a "designated Rifleman" patch for the following scores.
230+ open sights
240+ Scoped
Awesome, I'll take one ;D I seem to be stuck on 241 and shot three of them this past weekend in Kansas :wb: !@#) :wb:
When I do put 4 perfect stages together for a 250, I will definitely be commissioning a gold colored rifleman's patc ..:.. ;) ;D @@)
Quote from: Three'oEight on October 24, 2017, 12:50:37 PM
only "advanced" patch that matter says "Full Distance" on it. ;)
I agree
Quote from: Roswell on October 25, 2017, 04:02:36 PM
Quote from: Three'oEight on October 24, 2017, 12:50:37 PMh
only "advanced" patch that matter says "Full Distance" on it. ;)
I agree
I guess those of us who live several hundred miles from the nearest KD are just SOL, huh?
Quote from: Roswell on October 25, 2017, 04:02:36 PM
Quote from: Three'oEight on October 24, 2017, 12:50:37 PMh
only "advanced" patch that matter says "Full Distance" on it. ;)
I agree
I guess those of us who live several hundred miles from the nearest KD are just SOL, huh?
Quote from: Mrs. Smith on October 25, 2017, 06:00:21 PM
I guess those of us who live several hundred miles from the nearest KD are just SOL, huh?
Someone consistently shooting in the 230s at 25 with CF will have no problem at distance.
The most important part about KD is that it can't be shot with rimfire, so it forces folks to put away the rimfire rifles and pull out the CFs.
The reason many folks don't shoot well at distance is b/c they can't shoot their CF rifle all that well at 25.
A very wise man once said "what works at 25 works at distance". It's one of strongest parts of the Appleseed program. It's really at the core of the program.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of separate patches for distance. But there is a huge difference between rimfire at 25 and centerfire at 25. If it gets people to put away the rimfire and pull out the CF, great.
But you could do that without attending a KD, And then, when your CF scores at 25 are solid in the 230s, when you go to the KD, you will rock.
My .02, for whatever it's worth - FloydF brings up some good points.
Adjusting for a bullet drop at KD wasn't a problem. I did a little research before-hand - had to tweak it a bit, but it got me in the ballpark.
The bigger challenge for me was dealing with recoil. Sure, I can get good groupings at 25 yards taking my sweet time. Now let's try those 10 shots in 65 seconds, toss in a magazine change, and I realize that my prone position was a little sloppy, and as a result I wasn't absorbing the recoil as well as I should have been.
The experience made me a better shooter & a better instructor.
As I recall, the purpose of the new patches was incentive for shooters to keep attending events after they've scored Rifleman. The next "brass ring, " so to speak.
Return shooters = revenue = keeping the lights on.
Quote from: Mrs. Smith on October 27, 2017, 04:03:13 PM
As I recall, the purpose of the new patches was incentive for shooters to keep attending events after they've scored Rifleman. The next "brass ring, " so to speak.
Not only that, but it's nice to recognize those shooters who do exceptionally well.
I'm sure it varies from one area to the next, but attendance at KD's has been really low compared to the regular Appleseeds that I've been to. If we can't get people to come to a KD, maybe we can give then another reason to come back to a regular Appleseed (besides being able to hang out with incredibly handsome instructors). ;)
Quote from: RaggedHole on October 25, 2017, 03:19:55 PM
When I do put 4 perfect stages together for a 250, I will definitely be commissioning a gold colored rifleman's patc ..:.. ;) ;D @@)
Now that's an awesome idea. A gold Rifleman's patch, or at least a gold "250" rocker/tab.
I'm still hoping for strips that go under the Rifleman patch that say:
____________________
Iron Sights
____________________
Optics
____________________
Bolt Action
____________________
Semi Auto
____________________
100 Degrees
____________________
32 Degrees
____________________
400 Yards
____________________
We would award no more than two per qualifying Rifleman score on an AQT at an Appleseed.
400 yards because regular people don't understand the concepts of Full Distance or Known Distance. 400 yards tells an understandable story.
32 degrees likewise is understandable
100 degrees likewise is understandable
If you are not achievement oriented then this post means nothing for you. Carry on.
For those of us who are achievement oriented it means I need more rifleman scores, more Appleseeds, and perhaps another rifle and scope!
Costs and inventory:
Make these as a single patch, cut edge, not fully embroidered. = CHEAP
Shoot Boss gets a handful for each shoot, uses scissors to cut the strips apart and issue the earned ones, the others go into inventory for next event.
Actual patch and stitching would be as shown below, the gap between rectangles is the cut line to separate the strips:
____________________________
| |
| OPTICS |
|___________________________|
____________________________
| |
| IRON SIGHTS |
|___________________________|
____________________________
| |
| 400 YARDS |
|___________________________|
____________________________
| |
| 100 DEGREES |
|___________________________|
IMHO, competency-based bling is, at absolute worst, tolerable. It's just a signal; nonverbal communication counts for a lot sometimes.
Also - in the age of AR15s, I think noise has more to do with centerfire tummy troubles than recoil. Not going to lie, sitting on a concrete slab firing line with a metal roof and 10-15 braked carbines with 16" barrels isn't my favorite thing in the world either. 160+ dB is loud, and giving that sound nowhere to go is totally uncool, bro.
I prefer shooting "out in the elements" on open ranges, by a ton. I grew up behind a drumset, my ears are hosed enough as it is.
Quote from: Kennebago on October 28, 2017, 10:42:10 AM
Also - in the age of AR15s, I think noise has more to do with centerfire tummy troubles than recoil.
Fair point; I don't necessarily disagree. For clarification - I was shooting my M1A. The kick isn't bad, but combined with a sub-optimal body position the recoil was enough to force me to re-adjust and re-acquire NPOA between shots. If I had taken my AR-15 it might not have been something I even noticed, but my M1A shoots better.
You asked, we heard, and have answered!
Everyone wants that Rifleman patch and now there's an opportunity to join us on the line again for some extra recognition.
We are pleased to roll out the Appleseed Distinguished Rifleman designation. The Distinguished rocker will be awarded to shooters who score 230 or higher using iron sights or 240 or higher using optics on the Appleseed Qualification Test (AQT).
Ready for a Known Distance (KD) event? We've got new Known Distance rockers as well. And if you're really motivated, why not try for that elusive perfect 250? We've got a rocker for that too! Check out the schedule for an event near you!
(https://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26165916_2102705503284322_7710279359032138135_n.jpg?oh=dbd0413124692377e51944c3254d0254&oe=5ABE6452)
Great work on making those available, I know from the comments on FB and other 10/22 groups a lot of people are excited about coming back and earning a new patch. Rich, is the Inferno Seed patch still being looked at to be made official?
Quote from: DrRichP on January 04, 2018, 04:16:36 AM
You asked, we heard, and have answered!
Everyone wants that Rifleman patch and now there's an opportunity to join us on the line again for some extra recognition.
We are pleased to roll out the Appleseed Distinguished Rifleman designation. The Distinguished rocker will be awarded to shooters who score 230 or higher using iron sights or 240 or higher using optics on the Appleseed Qualification Test (AQT).
Ready for a Known Distance (KD) event? We've got new Known Distance rockers as well. And if you're really motivated, why not try for that elusive perfect 250? We've got a rocker for that too! Check out the schedule for an event near you!
(https://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26165916_2102705503284322_7710279359032138135_n.jpg?oh=dbd0413124692377e51944c3254d0254&oe=5ABE6452)
Huzzah! That's great! Thank you to those who made this happen.
YES!!!!!!!
Are these backdateable, or are all of us going to have to flop down on a mat and requalify?
I thought the patch after Rifleman was the Instructor Rocker, followed up by the Shoot Boss rocker?
Why has this changed?
2cl
Quote from: 2 clicks low on January 04, 2018, 05:22:09 PM
I thought the patch after Rifleman was the Instructor Rocker, followed up by the Shoot Boss rocker?
Why has this changed?
2cl
Wait, we get rockers for those?!? I knew I was off my rocker around here! (also, is it a rocker if it's rectangular? My "long range" rocker is curved, presumably to go with the oval patch).
Love em....!! Nice work!
Quote from: 2 clicks low on January 04, 2018, 05:22:09 PM
I thought the patch after Rifleman was the Instructor Rocker, followed up by the Shoot Boss rocker?
Why has this changed?
2cl
To get more people back out to the line and present new challenges. I know a lot of shooters love coming out but aren't interested in instructing. I think it is great!
I like the patches. It will probably result in more shooters on the line.
Quote from: Birdman on January 04, 2018, 10:04:47 PMI like the patches. It will probably result in more shooters on the line.
That's the hope.
New goals and new accomplishments for 2018.
I'd recommend requal.. if for volunteers/RH/SB's then I'd say SB discretion.. Not official policy, just my opinion...
Quote from: Kennebago on January 04, 2018, 04:30:00 PM
YES!!!!!!!
Are these backdateable, or are all of us going to have to flop down on a mat and requalify?
This has not changed, but it'll give us several more shots (pun intended) at prior attendees who might now decide to step up...
Quote from: 2 clicks low on January 04, 2018, 05:22:09 PM
I thought the patch after Rifleman was the Instructor Rocker, followed up by the Shoot Boss rocker?
Why has this changed?
2cl
Quote from: BeSwift on January 17, 2018, 08:11:41 PM
This has not changed, but it'll give us several more shots (pun intended) at prior attendees who might now decide to step up...
Quote from: 2 clicks low on January 04, 2018, 05:22:09 PM
I thought the patch after Rifleman was the Instructor Rocker, followed up by the Shoot Boss rocker?
Why has this changed?
2cl
The new tabs (I don't call them rockers because they aren't shaped like rockers) will bring repeat students to the line and provide more OPPORTUNITY for exposure to INSPIRING instructors.
As instructors - really as storytellers - we have to do our part to convert that inspiration to action.
Quote from: Kennebago on January 04, 2018, 04:30:00 PM
YES!!!!!!!
Are these backdateable, or are all of us going to have to flop down on a mat and requalify?
Asked and answered
Quote from: DrRichP on January 06, 2018, 08:55:06 PM
Quote from: eaglescouter on January 06, 2018, 04:30:53 PMRetroactive? Or just on new AQT's?
New AQT's. The idea of tha patches was to give folks a reason to come back to Appleseed and strive for new goals; not to give out patches retroactively. If they did it before, they should be able to do it again. Come back to Appleseed!
Waco had it's first "Distinguished" patch earned Saturday. Score was 240 scoped rifle. AWESOME!
Awesome!! O0
Are there rockers for 240+ with irons on a *** KD AQT ***? I shot a 210 with irons (in the cold rain, I might add) at the last KD shoot in New Braunfels back in November. I did that with my NM A2 but I'm considering taking my M1A for the KD shoot later this month. Should I chase the 240+ distinguished rocker and bring my AR again, or should I try for rifleman score at all with 30cal and irons? 240+ in a KD with an M1A and irons might be a stretch for me right now, but it's one I'd like to try for at some point. Having rockers for 240+irons+KD or 30cal+irons+KD sounds like a fun challenge.
Quote from: perdurabo on March 07, 2018, 03:58:24 PMAre there rockers for 240+ with irons on a *** KD AQT ***? I shot a 210 with irons (in the cold rain, I might add) at the last KD shoot in New Braunfels back in November. I did that with my NM A2 but I'm considering taking my M1A for the KD shoot later this month. Should I chase the 240+ distinguished rocker and bring my AR again, or should I try for rifleman score at all with 30cal and irons? 240+ in a KD with an M1A and irons might be a stretch for me right now, but it's one I'd like to try for at some point. Having rockers for 240+irons+KD or 30cal+irons+KD sounds like a fun challenge.
No, there are no additional rockers for 240+ with irons on a KD AQT. The 240 distinguished rocker and the KD rocker would apply if the scores were attained after those patches came out. We can't make rockers for everything, but I hope you achieve and enjoy the ones we have.
it's great to know the Distinguished Patch exists. Now, if I could figure out how to get my patch for shooting a 244 back in January? Yes, it was after the emails went out about the Distinguished Patch program. The SB didn't know anything about the program and said I would eventually get mine. Follow up with the SB two months later and he says there are no patches available. Right now I'm not too impressed with the implementation of the program.
Quote from: Aim Small Hit Small on March 09, 2018, 06:13:05 PMit's great to know the Distinguished Patch exists. Now, if I could figure out how to get my patch for shooting a 244 back in January? Yes, it was after the emails went out about the Distinguished Patch program. The SB didn't know anything about the program and said I would eventually get mine. Follow up with the SB two months later and he says there are no patches available. Right now I'm not too impressed with the implementation of the program.
The Distinguished patches are most certainly available! I was at supply 2 weeks ago and saw them. Don't be on these threads spouting that B.S. :tsk:
The Distinguished patches have been available since the program was announced and the patch program was implemented properly. Others have been awarding those patches.
- https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=52796.msg352413#msg352413
- https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=52729.msg352337#msg352337
Right now, I'm not too impressed with the follow-up from either you or your SB. !@#)
Instead of coming on here and posting B.S. of the patches not being available and the program not being implemented right; how about the alternate approach of just asking?
Something like "
I shot a 244 back in January after the emails went out about the Distinguished Patch program but my SB didn't have one. When will they be available?"
OR send the same in a PM to Thaddeus or Cousin Hart in supply chain and CC your SB.
We're not sending out the 'Distinguished' patches en masse, but they are certainly available from supply.
Shoot bosses who witness someone shooting the criteria for award, or individuals who shoot the criteria (with shoot boss approval) can request a patch from supply.
Simply PM Thaddeus or Cousin Hart and we can get one sent right out.
Drrichp, what I posted was factual and not BS. I'm sorry if your feeling got hurt. That wasn't my intention. I have spent three months waiting on my numerous requests to the SB to act. I really thought that was the proper channel.
Quote from: Aim Small Hit Small on March 12, 2018, 10:52:00 PMDrrichp, what I posted was factual and not BS. I'm sorry if your feeling got hurt. That wasn't my intention. I have spent three months waiting on my numerous requests to the SB to act. I really thought that was the proper channel.
My feelings are not hurt. The patches are, and have been available since the program was implemented. Any insinuation otherwise is not factual.
Your SB obviously did not know he needed to order them from supply. IF he had followed up with supply chain to ask, Thaddeus would have taken care of it. It doesn't seem as though that happened.
Comments like "
Right now I'm not too impressed with the implementation of the program." on a forum thread as opposed to a simple PM or e-mail asking is never the best approach. Applying Occam's razor, which is more likely A) my SB doesn't have the patches and 2 mos later forgot to follow-up on how to get me one?; or B) the program is so incompetent they announced a program that 2 mos later still isn't implemented? ??? Yeah, probably better to just ask.
I'm sorry if I seem sensitive. We ALL work very hard at the national level to be thoughtful and well planned and to do things well; from the AOC to Thaddeus and Cousin Hart in supply, to Scuzzy.
All of us. To go on forums and see false criticism's like this (
and it's not new), is getting old! Just ask first, just ask.
Have you gotten your patch yet? If not, please see what Thaddeus wrote:
Quote from: Thaddeus on March 10, 2018, 12:30:47 PMWe're not sending out the 'Distinguished' patches en masse, but they are certainly available from supply.
Shoot bosses who witness someone shooting the criteria for award, or individuals who shoot the criteria (with shoot boss approval) can request a patch from supply.
Simply PM Thaddeus or Cousin Hart and we can get one sent right out.
I don't know how to insert quotes in my posts, so I refer whoever is interested to DrRichP last post. A reference is made to Occams Razor Principle, which essentially states that "the explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct".
aj
Quote from: airplanejoe on March 14, 2018, 10:40:44 AM
I don't know how to insert quotes in my posts, so I refer whoever is interested to DrRichP last post. A reference is made to Occams Razor Principle, which essentially states that "the explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct".
aj
Look to the upper right corner of the post you want to quote...there's a button that says Quote. When you click that button, a new post will open for you that has the quote already inserted with all of the necessary tags.