Author Topic: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier  (Read 5103 times)

Offline fisherdawg

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2014, 04:13:28 PM »
There's nothing out there saying YOU can't be the biggest rock star in the program.

Think about that for a moment. YOU could be the biggest rock star in this program.

Medicus is a rock star  --- just don't tell him!
 >:D
If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. (James Madison)

"Young man, what we meant in going for those Redcoats was this: we always had governed ourselves and we always meant to. They didn't mean we should."
(Captain Levi Preston, of the Danvers militia, at age 91, remembering the day)

That it is an indispensable duty which we owe to God, our country, ourselves and posterity, by all lawful ways and means in our power to maintain, defend and preserve those civil and religious rights and liberties, for which many of our fathers fought, bled and died, and to hand them down entire to future generations.  Suffolk Resolves, September 9, 1774, attributed to Dr. Joseph Warren

Offline Agrivere

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2014, 10:56:44 PM »
I don't personally see a lot that's very interesting about the new ruger trigger for me, but I'll wager it will be a nice addition for a lot of shooters.

Regarding the secondary discussion, I'll simply say that our country has always gone to great effort and expense to make sure our soldiers have the best equipment they can have. It was as true in 1775 as it is today. Why some people choose to argue with those who want the best equipment that can have continues to baffle me. 

I can also say that for those who wish to learn to shoot better than a 4 MOA standard, you will learn more about your shooting than you can imagine. Remember a 2 MOA target ( the NRA Highpower slow prone target for example has a 2 minute 10 ring) is not half the size of a 4 MOA target - it's 1/4 the size. You will find the effort to be very rewarding, and I would suggest you'll learn a lot that will make you a much better instructor.

The Rifleman patch can be the end of a journey for some, but it can also be the start of a journey that can lead many places. Don't belittle those whose journey follows a different path than yours...
"The great body of our citizens shoot less as times goes on. We should encourage rifle practice among schoolboys, and indeed among all classes, as well as in the military services by every means in our power. Thus, and not otherwise, may we be able to assist in preserving peace in the world... The first step � in the direction of preparation to avert war if possible, and to be fit for war if it should come � is to teach men to shoot." -Theodore Roosevelt

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2014, 07:03:18 PM »
I'll say my "dander" with Slim was easily "quelled" simply by a discussion between him and I.

SIMPLICITY, and precision.

All too often this innernet thing becomes way too personal (myself included), to include my response on "Parralax" (I'm still a noob), of which I guess was meant to "Spin" Slim up.

We are all Volunteers! HUZZAH!

Hope we can all relax a BIT (not on our laurels, cause 2015 is gonna be busy), and re-center (is that a word?), or just RELAX for a week or two with our families, and then CENTER up again smartly for the year ahead!

Obviosuly we are all PASSIONATE as all heck about this stuff!

Merry Christmas, Hannukah, Kwanza, Festivus, and whatever you all celebrate.  Sadly Isaac Davis did not get to celebrate on 25 Dec 1775, can you imagine what it was like in Hannah's home?

WOW!

Respectfully,
Chris


Offline Unbridled Liberty

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2014, 12:52:42 PM »
I'll say my "dander" with Slim was easily "quelled" simply by a discussion between him and I.

SIMPLICITY, and precision.

All too often this innernet thing becomes way too personal (myself included), to include my response on "Parralax" (I'm still a noob), of which I guess was meant to "Spin" Slim up.

We are all Volunteers! HUZZAH!

Hope we can all relax a BIT (not on our laurels, cause 2015 is gonna be busy), and re-center (is that a word?), or just RELAX for a week or two with our families, and then CENTER up again smartly for the year ahead!

Obviosuly we are all PASSIONATE as all heck about this stuff!

Merry Christmas, Hannukah, Kwanza, Festivus, and whatever you all celebrate.  Sadly Isaac Davis did not get to celebrate on 25 Dec 1775, can you imagine what it was like in Hannah's home?

WOW!

Respectfully,
Chris

Well said sir!  We are all individuals with strong passions, especially for Liberty, otherwise we would be spending most of our time on our couches being entertained. 

In researching Dr. Warren, I found that he got into a flame war with another local physician via the social media of their day, the newspaper.  Some things never change. 

Maybe we can all start with a clean slate in 2015.  It is my hope that my Appleseed brothers and sisters whom I offended in 2014 will forgive me.  I plan on making some personal changes in that area, starting now.  For Liberty and posterity, here's to a productive and effective 2015... O0

UL

Offline viperrt1

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2014, 01:58:21 PM »
I'm inclined to keep my trigger pull above 3 pounds so that I'll be able to compete in the CMP Rimfire Sporter competitions without having to change anything. I'm convinced that the CMP Rimfire Sporter competition is a place where we could really make sure that Project Appleseed's presence is noticed.

And I still think that improving my trigger control is the best upgrade I'll ever make.

I 100% agree.

End of the day it's shooter not gear.
Instead of $2000 rifle get $200 one few hundred in good ammo and few hundred in class and be miles ahead. That Why I did appleseed with old 1022 iron sites. I wanted learn marksmanship. Not which rifle is most accurate
I keep my 22 at 4 lbs. And my NM garand at 5.5 lbs. I found in heat of competition I would pull though the first stage like it wasn't there at 4.5lbs.
I have found the smoothness and travel distance is key. Not weight.

But to learn proper trigger control I like the heavy, long pulls. It magnified my errors.

I on the other hand I like that is ruger going away from heavy long pulls. I just wish they were adjustable. There no one size fits all.

They both have there place.

« Last Edit: December 26, 2014, 02:04:51 PM by viperrt1 »
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Offline WinterRider

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2015, 04:30:38 PM »
Hey guys I'm new here . I was reading this post because I shot my first day of Apple Seed with a stock 10/22 before moving on to an ar. I was shooting with a scope and at one point on my stage three when my blood was pumping I got down into my NPOA had it dialed in and went to take my shot at my respiratory pause.... My crosshairs moved before the trigger break. I stopped paused and  focused on squeezing the trigger and it made all the difference and I shot three groups under 4 moa. Really focusing and not just playing lip service to the six steps is what did it for me. And I didn't really fully understand that untill I was examining what I did different on Saturday from Sunday and why I only shot a 197 on Sunday vs my 229 the day before. Putting my thoughts down to share with others as my instructors asked me to I think improved upon the skills they were teaching. I was thinking about a better trigger but then realized that for about  the same price of 7 triggers I can have an m1. ;)

Offline viperrt1

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2015, 08:27:57 PM »
You are perfect example of why a stock 10/22 is great rifle for this program! O0 that was great shooting.
If you do get that m1 bring that to a shoot as well. There are a lot of fun and the sacromento group will be more then happy to show you the in and outs of that rifle.
 :cool2:
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Offline Charles McKinley

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2015, 03:48:52 AM »
Has anyone here actually shot the new trigger yet?

DeckApe needs a trigger group as his stock group has developed a nasty habbit of firing when the safety is taken off.  No "work" has been done to the trigger but it is unsafe and has been taken out of service until fixed.

Chuck
Last evening, it occurred to me that when a defender of Liberty is called home, their load lands upon the shoulders of the defenders left behind. Just as the Founders did their duty for Liberty, every subsequent generation must continue their work lest Liberty perish. As there is no way for the remaining adults to take on the work of those that die, we must pass the ideals and duties on to the children. -PHenery

Offline FiremanBob

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2015, 09:05:35 AM »
The foremost gunsmith specializing in 10/22 triggers has said the BX is a good trigger group. Not as good as his products (which are truly excellent) but miles ahead of the stock trigger.

For someone who doesn't know how to disassemble and work on the trigger group, the BX seems to be an excellent solution - two pins out, swap groups (make sure the ejector is properly in its slot upon installation) and the two pins back in.

I'd like to see and diagnose the offending TG. It is not impossible that user error could be the problem. Is the user setting the safety on before cocking the hammer? The safety can not slide under the sear if the hammer is uncocked. The photos in this blog post: http://1022companion.wordpress.com/2014/12/02/making-the-rifle-safe-safely/ illustrate the relationship between the safety and the sear in the uncocked and cocked positions.
If this is not the problem, I would be very interested in seeing what the mechanical cause could be.
Author of "The 10/22 Companion: How to Operate, Troubleshoot, Maintain and Improve Your Ruger 10/22"

"Remember constantly that a nation cannot long remain strong when each man in it is individually weak, and that neither social forms nor political schemes have yet been found that can make a people energetic by composing it of pusillanimous and soft citizens." - de Tocqueville

Offline jmdavis

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2015, 11:14:37 AM »
An M1 is a fine thing to have. But if you don't already have ammo, it will cost you 7 triggers and $.70 per shot at reduced cmp (CMP prices) or $1 per shot at commercial ammo prices.

.22lr is currenrtly available for  $.096 per shot (CCI std at Midway, $39.99/brick + shipping).

"If a man does his best, what else is there?"  - General George S. Patton Jr

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  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
  Shall be my brother...-Shakespeare, Henry V
 

"There's a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top. Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and is much less prevalent. One of the most frequently noted characteristics of great men who have remained great is loyalty to their subordinates."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Your body can't go where your mind hasn't been."
- Alex Arrieta 1995 NTI Winner

Offline slim

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2015, 11:57:57 PM »
Has anyone here actually shot the new trigger yet?
I have. I'd been reading this thread a few weeks ago and couldn't wait for the chance to buy an easier way to make Rifleman.

I found a couple BX Triggers for sale at a local mom & pop (for $64.99) and I tried them out at the store last week. (They're packaged so you can try them before you buy them. - Great marketing!) After posting a few selfies on facebook to show all my friends they were available and pretty cheap I passed because I figured you can't buy skill.

After a week or so of thinking it over and reading more internetz I decided maybe you really can buy skill. So, I went back this week and bought one. It was interesting to note the two triggers in the store had very different trigger pulls. One was obviously waaaaay better than the other one. The resident gun shop guru confirmed that was the one I should buy so I pulled the trigger on it and took it home.

The Indiana IBC was this weekend so we passed it around for a while, took some more selfies with it (because you can never have too many selfies) and then after lots of head shaking, nay saying, ridicule and looks of disgust I put it in my rifle. It took all of 5 minutes and I used my Leatherman to do it. Very simple and easy, even for someone as awesome at gun maintenance as me. (I don't even clean my rifles except maybe once a year or when they stop working.)

The very first AQT I shot was a Rifleman score so this thing really does work as advertised. My factory trigger required about 8lbs of pull and this one is only 2.5 so that means it only requires about 31% of the effort the factory trigger needs in order to shoot Rifleman scores. If everyone puts this trigger group into their rifle they should make Rifleman scores easier by about 69%!!! My second AQT was also a Rifleman score so that right there is proof this thing works.

You really can buy an easier Rifleman score!


Offline Charles McKinley

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2015, 04:01:22 PM »
Thank you Slim for that informative and entertaining review.  I'll get one for my brother's rifle and maybe send the trigger group in it Bob's way if we can't figure it out easily.
Last evening, it occurred to me that when a defender of Liberty is called home, their load lands upon the shoulders of the defenders left behind. Just as the Founders did their duty for Liberty, every subsequent generation must continue their work lest Liberty perish. As there is no way for the remaining adults to take on the work of those that die, we must pass the ideals and duties on to the children. -PHenery

Offline Nero

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2015, 04:21:00 PM »

You really can buy an easier Rifleman score!


That might be more convincing if you handed it to someone who hasn't shot a score on a crappy 8lb factory trigger!  Just sayin'   ;D **)

Offline FiremanBob

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2015, 05:38:18 PM »
Sophomoric sarcasm doesn't deserve to be dignified with a response.
Author of "The 10/22 Companion: How to Operate, Troubleshoot, Maintain and Improve Your Ruger 10/22"

"Remember constantly that a nation cannot long remain strong when each man in it is individually weak, and that neither social forms nor political schemes have yet been found that can make a people energetic by composing it of pusillanimous and soft citizens." - de Tocqueville

Offline Nero

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2015, 06:19:22 PM »
Sophomoric sarcasm doesn't deserve to be dignified with a response.

Lighten up.  Slim can take a bit of a ribbing, he dishes it out enough.   -:)  ;D

Offline FiremanBob

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2015, 06:28:22 PM »
Nero, sorry if it wasn't clear - I was referring to Slim's post. His post is off the point. Of course a better trigger makes it easier to shoot well. If that weren't true, there would be no aftermarket for trigger jobs or drop-in parts for ARs or any other rifles. The title of this thread is "...making Rifleman easier". Nobody claimed the BX is a miracle product that guarantees any results. So, typical of bad satire, Slim is attacking something that nobody said.
Author of "The 10/22 Companion: How to Operate, Troubleshoot, Maintain and Improve Your Ruger 10/22"

"Remember constantly that a nation cannot long remain strong when each man in it is individually weak, and that neither social forms nor political schemes have yet been found that can make a people energetic by composing it of pusillanimous and soft citizens." - de Tocqueville

Offline MostlyHarmless

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2015, 08:37:33 PM »
If everyone puts this trigger group into their rifle they should make Rifleman scores easier by about 69%!!! My second AQT was also a Rifleman score so that right there is proof this thing works.

You really can buy an easier Rifleman score!

I don't need it to be easier. But if I can do it with less effort, I'm all about it!

If Ruger can contrive the 10/22 drop in part that will allow me to score rifleman from the comfort of my couch, they may have invented themselves the key to my wallet!  ::)
"Alas!! I spy a shooting bench and stool ahead in yonder treeline. Perhaps also there is a forefather with a rifle. I fear an ambush!"
-not overheard during the British retreat from Concord, Apr 19, 1775

Offline MostlyHarmless

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2015, 08:40:32 PM »
It was interesting to note the two triggers in the store had very different trigger pulls. One was obviously waaaaay better than the other one. The resident gun shop guru confirmed that was the one I should buy so I pulled the trigger on it and took it home.

That is not reassuring.

I am accustomed to Ruger's triggers not being consistent. Yet I had somehow assumed that this would not be the case with their upgrades also....
"Alas!! I spy a shooting bench and stool ahead in yonder treeline. Perhaps also there is a forefather with a rifle. I fear an ambush!"
-not overheard during the British retreat from Concord, Apr 19, 1775

Offline slim

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2015, 02:04:47 AM »
If you read the internetz - and a few places on this forum - you'll see the suggestion, over and over, that buying a do-hickey will make you better at shooting. It's simply not true.

You get better at shooting by learning the fundamentals and then practicing.

To see it suggested or implied on our forum that upgrading a trigger makes Rifleman easier is outrageous. Making Rifleman isn't about shooting a 210+ one time with a tricked-out rimfire rifle. It's about owning the skills to be a field shooter - someone who can pick up a rack grade rifle, surplus ball ammo, and make hits on man-sized targets at 500 yards.

When we lean toward target shooting and the gear race that some have been caught up in lately, we do ourselves a disservice. We're not a target program. We're not a gear program. We're a fundamentals program. High Power has its place. Smallbore has its place. But we keep blurring the lines between our place and theirs.

I'm not against folks doing "Other Than Appleseed" shooting. OTA is fun. OTA takes the shooting sports and spreads them to the people. OTA is necessary for us to do.

- But we shouldn't be doing it on our lines.

Instruct people on how to shoot 8lb triggers. Help them develop pride in doing so. Someday, they might just pick up a rifle that isn't all tricked out. I'm pretty sure they'll figure out how to run a 2lb trigger if they're familiar with the 8 pounder. Not so sure it'll work the other way around. 


Offline Medicus

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2015, 02:06:31 AM »
Parallax  >:D
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." Samuel Adams

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Offline KodyJaret

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« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 11:19:23 AM by KodyJaret »

Offline Nero

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2015, 12:25:40 PM »
The new Ruger trigger (and Appleseed) got a nice mention from Mas Ayoob today:

http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2015/01/20/more-cool-new-gun-stuff/

Offline Unbridled Liberty

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2015, 06:21:57 PM »
The new Ruger trigger (and Appleseed) got a nice mention from Mas Ayoob today:

http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2015/01/20/more-cool-new-gun-stuff/

Quote
"I expect a lot of them to show up at the great Appleseed events, which we at Backwoods Home enthusiastically support."
  This dude should be our national spokesman.

UL

Offline jmdavis

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2015, 12:45:09 AM »
If Appleseed is "Run what you brung" then criticizing people because the want a decent trigger (like the one on my 1950's Remington's or my M1, or my Anschutz, or a number of out of the box Savage Poducts), doesn't make sense.

I can shoot a Rifleman score with a 2lb trigger and with a 6lb creepy AR carbine trigger and I can do it with an 8lb trigger. The reason is because I learned what good trigger control actually is. But,  I greatly prefer a clean to a gravelly trigger. All of my M1's have clean triggers, they came that way. My M1A had a clean trigger it came that way too. My Rock River NM is a two stage trigger with a 4.5 lb pull. It works pretty darn good. A good trigger is worth a few points, if you know about sight alignment and trigger control. If you don't the best trigger in the world won't help.

By the same token, all of the bad practice in the world will never make you good.







"If a man does his best, what else is there?"  - General George S. Patton Jr

  ...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
  Shall be my brother...-Shakespeare, Henry V
 

"There's a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top. Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and is much less prevalent. One of the most frequently noted characteristics of great men who have remained great is loyalty to their subordinates."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Your body can't go where your mind hasn't been."
- Alex Arrieta 1995 NTI Winner

Offline Earl

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Re: Ruger offers product to making Rifleman easier
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2015, 03:49:55 AM »
This is one of the most positive strings on Appleseed I have read in awhile... since I don't do 10/22 much outside of helping others with theirs I didn't bite when it originally came out. I also think the shooter is easier to fix than the rifle, and much more flexible. Still it was great listening to y'all experts on triggers, shooting skills and cost value. Hope to see y'all on the range soon, new year and more challenges. ^:)^
... to catch the fire in another American for sharing the skills and our heritage to our posterity. Maybe my perfect shots will be made by those I met along the trials and trails of Appleseed. I know that America is a nation of Riflemen.