Author Topic: pistolseed patch  (Read 4582 times)

Offline Aim Small Hit Small

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pistolseed patch
« on: March 24, 2014, 09:16:40 PM »
Is there a patch for Pistolseed qualifiers?
June 15/16 2013 Rifleman (Charlotte, NC)
Feb. 7/8 2015 Rifleman (Boone, NC) (Winterseed)
April 18/19 2015 Rifleman (Ramseur, NC)
March, 2017 RBC Rifleman and KD Qualified
(Ramseur, NC) Took a Blue Hat.
April 22/23, 2017 Rifleman Requal (243)
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Offline 2 clicks low

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2014, 10:53:35 PM »
Patches? Patches? We don need no stinkin patches!

My request for a "Pistolero" patch was denied. Last I heard they were still discussing it.

2cl
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Offline Aim Small Hit Small

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2014, 11:06:17 PM »
One would think that with all the pride that goes with earning the Rifleman patch it would be a no brainer to do a Pistol patch.
I believe Pistolseed would see an increase in the event if a patch was offered.
June 15/16 2013 Rifleman (Charlotte, NC)
Feb. 7/8 2015 Rifleman (Boone, NC) (Winterseed)
April 18/19 2015 Rifleman (Ramseur, NC)
March, 2017 RBC Rifleman and KD Qualified
(Ramseur, NC) Took a Blue Hat.
April 22/23, 2017 Rifleman Requal (243)
Ramseur, NC
January 20/21, 2018 Rifleman Requal (244) Ramseur, NC
May 4/5, 2019 Rifleman Requal (249)
Ramseur, NC
May 24/25, 2019 KD Requal
Ramseur, NC

Offline Turtle

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2014, 11:16:55 PM »
the patch is a coveted treasure mounted on my wall.

the patch definaltey makes more people work harder


would it be the same patch just with pistolman instead of rifleman ?


also,,, is there a formal outline and procedure for pistol seed?? 

Offline CSTCoach

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2014, 11:38:01 PM »
"A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon." ~ Napoleon Bonaparte
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Offline Aim Small Hit Small

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2014, 11:46:45 PM »
"A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon." ~ Napoleon Bonaparte

I like that...and it is true.
June 15/16 2013 Rifleman (Charlotte, NC)
Feb. 7/8 2015 Rifleman (Boone, NC) (Winterseed)
April 18/19 2015 Rifleman (Ramseur, NC)
March, 2017 RBC Rifleman and KD Qualified
(Ramseur, NC) Took a Blue Hat.
April 22/23, 2017 Rifleman Requal (243)
Ramseur, NC
January 20/21, 2018 Rifleman Requal (244) Ramseur, NC
May 4/5, 2019 Rifleman Requal (249)
Ramseur, NC
May 24/25, 2019 KD Requal
Ramseur, NC

Offline jmdavis

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2014, 12:05:27 AM »
I never went to Appleseed for a patch. I went to learn.

When I earned the patch I was proud of it. But, it, my instructor, April 19, Shootboss, bootcamp, Senior Instructor, and other tabs stay in an envelope in my desk. My CMP silver in air rifle and bronze in EIC competition badges are on on the bookshelf across the room.

I would judge Bonaparte wrong. Men fight long and hard and are sometime awarded a bit of colored ribbon. I don't, however, think that they fight for it. I know or have known one man with the Medal of Honor, one man with the Navy cross, and three with the silver star. All but one was enlisted and those awards came from ground combat.

As one of the silver star recipients told me, "When it comes to medals like the silver star, it means things went seriously wrong and good people died. You don't want to get it." Since he tells the truth, I have to believe him.

On the question about formalization of the Pistolseed. There is a POI and COI that are under revision.
"If a man does his best, what else is there?"  - General George S. Patton Jr

  ...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
  Shall be my brother...-Shakespeare, Henry V
 

"There's a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top. Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and is much less prevalent. One of the most frequently noted characteristics of great men who have remained great is loyalty to their subordinates."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Your body can't go where your mind hasn't been."
- Alex Arrieta 1995 NTI Winner

Offline malabar

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2014, 02:04:13 AM »
I never went to Appleseed for a patch. I went to learn.

When I earned the patch I was proud of it. But, it, my instructor, April 19, Shootboss, bootcamp, Senior Instructor, and other tabs stay in an envelope in my desk. My CMP silver in air rifle and bronze in EIC competition badges are on on the bookshelf across the room.

I would judge Bonaparte wrong. Men fight long and hard and are sometime awarded a bit of colored ribbon. I don't, however, think that they fight for it. I know or have known one man with the Medal of Honor, one man with the Navy cross, and three with the silver star. All but one was enlisted and those awards came from ground combat.

As one of the silver star recipients told me, "When it comes to medals like the silver star, it means things went seriously wrong and good people died. You don't want to get it." Since he tells the truth, I have to believe him.


That's because they are heroes. 

For the average shooter, the patch is important.  It symbolizes an accomplishment that is outside their day-to-day lives.

tk

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Offline hawkeye

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2014, 09:01:23 AM »
We are still working on the patch , earning money got in the way of pursuing the patch and some other details of the project. I'm back on track now. What do you think of a Rifleman patch with pistol in place of Rifleman or a pistol tab to add under the Rifleman patch? I believe this would be a  more uniform approach to adding the patch. I'm not a patch collector either I'm in it for the knowledge gained at each shoot and the pride I fill watching the kids learn an uniquely  American skill.   
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of crap by the clean end." Texas A&M student

Online 308LIBERTY

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2014, 09:10:02 AM »
I like "Pistoleer" (a term that would've actually been used in the 18th century) better than Pistolman. Though we could just start off with a rocker to put under an RWVA patch.
"We have always looked upon men as a set of beings naturally free - that a people can never be divested of those invaluable rights and liberties which are necessary to the happiness of individuals, to the well-beings of communities or to a well regulated state, but by their own negligence, imprudence, timidity or rashness. They are seldom lost, but when foolishly forfeited or tamely resigned." ~Jonas Clarke

Offline hawkeye

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2014, 09:18:00 AM »
I was thinking of just having Pistol on the patch, not pistolman.
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Offline Chaps

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2014, 07:21:07 PM »
In the military tradition from which Appleseed is drawn, qualification with different platforms are indicated with distinct devices, not a tab, rocker or additive to a single qualification device; tabs, rockers, ladders, etc. are used to indicate levels or number of times qualified, like adjectives to the original patch. Therefore I would think that a separate patch would be most appropriate. Furthermore, does it necessarily follow that someone who is instructor qualified for Rifle will also be for Pistol, or will there be a separate course for that? In which case there would be a separate tab for that.
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Offline Turtle

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2014, 01:26:45 AM »
In the military tradition from which Appleseed is drawn, qualification with different platforms are indicated with distinct devices, not a tab, rocker or additive to a single qualification device; tabs, rockers, ladders, etc. are used to indicate levels or number of times qualified, like adjectives to the original patch. Therefore I would think that a separate patch would be most appropriate. Furthermore, does it necessarily follow that someone who is instructor qualified for Rifle will also be for Pistol, or will there be a separate course for that? In which case there would be a separate tab for that.

I agree at the least it requires a different patch name and distinct color change

Offline Lonestar6

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2014, 05:12:32 AM »
With all due candor and respect to my colleagues posting in this thread and coming from a distinctly US Army perspective; the US Army marksmanship badges indicated level of proficiency with a bar attached for each weapon you attained that profieciency with. Therefore if I attained an Expert rating with both rifle and pistol I would wear one badge with a rifle and pistol bar attached. Per Ar 70-1 you can only have three bars per badge; you are allowed up to three badges. For the curious I have gleaned the excerpt from the Military Awards regulation for your reference. Table 8-2 is long but includes Rifle, Pistol, Smallbore Rifle, Smallbore Pistol, Carbine and interestingly enough to Appleseeders: Bayonet. I looked at bayonet in the table tonight through a whole new lens, my Appleseed lens, and I smiled. So, with my documentation in order I would suggest a rocker may be a great option until and after a patch is designed.

Per AR 600-8-22:
Section IV
Marksmanship Badges and Tabs
8-47. U.S. Army Basic Marksmanship Qualification Badges
a. A basic marksmanship qualification badge is awarded to indicate the degree in which an individual, military or
civilian, has qualified in a prescribed record course and an appropriate bar is furnished to denote each weapon with
which he or she qualified. Each bar will be attached to the basic badge that indicates the qualification last attained with
the respective weapon. Basic qualification badges are of three classes. Expert, Sharpshooter, and Marksman. The only
weapons for which component bars are authorized are in table 8-2 at the end of this chapter. Basic marksmanship
qualification badges are awarded to U.S. military and civilian personnel, and to foreign military personnel who qualify
as prescribed.

Respectfully submitted,
LS6

Offline jmdavis

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2014, 10:39:32 AM »
With all due candor and respect to my colleagues posting in this thread and coming from a distinctly US Army perspective; the US Army marksmanship badges indicated level of proficiency with a bar attached for each weapon you attained that profieciency with. Therefore if I attained an Expert rating with both rifle and pistol I would wear one badge with a rifle and pistol bar attached. Per Ar 70-1 you can only have three bars per badge; you are allowed up to three badges. For the curious I have gleaned the excerpt from the Military Awards regulation for your reference. Table 8-2 is long but includes Rifle, Pistol, Smallbore Rifle, Smallbore Pistol, Carbine and interestingly enough to Appleseeders: Bayonet. I looked at bayonet in the table tonight through a whole new lens, my Appleseed lens, and I smiled. So, with my documentation in order I would suggest a rocker may be a great option until and after a patch is designed.


Correct to the point of the Distinguished Badge or EIC Bronze or Silver Medals, at which point you would wear the Rifle and/or pistol EIC or Distinguished Badges in lieu of the Qualification badge. So you might have a Distinguished Rifle or EIC Silver along with an Expert for pistol etc. Or you might have Distinguished badges in multiple disciplines such as Rifle, Pistol and International (pretty rare to find Triple Distinguished individuals though). There are also badges allowed for excellence in Intraservice and other competitions. Different services also have different rules.

But there are tabs that may be worn by all Army personnel and certain Coast Guard and Navy enlisted to denote marksmanship excellence as well. These would include the President's 100 tab and the Governors 20 or 10 (for USANG) tab.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marksmanship_Badges_(United_States)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 10:44:00 AM by jmdavis »
"If a man does his best, what else is there?"  - General George S. Patton Jr

  ...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
  Shall be my brother...-Shakespeare, Henry V
 

"There's a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top. Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and is much less prevalent. One of the most frequently noted characteristics of great men who have remained great is loyalty to their subordinates."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Your body can't go where your mind hasn't been."
- Alex Arrieta 1995 NTI Winner

Offline slim

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2014, 03:27:53 PM »
This patch should be bedazzled and/or sparkly. Maybe even one that would light up and blink!

Offline Chaps

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2014, 05:20:42 PM »
This patch should be bedazzled and/or sparkly. Maybe even one that would light up and blink!

So modeled after the Air Force Marksmanship badges? [with all due reverence to the sister service]
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Offline slim

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2014, 06:27:33 PM »
This patch should be bedazzled and/or sparkly. Maybe even one that would light up and blink!

So modeled after the Air Force Marksmanship badges? [with all due reverence to the sister service]
My Air Force small arms marksmanship expert medal is tactical... it's green. Even the bronze star on it is subdued. Extra tactical!

Offline Chaps

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2014, 09:30:18 AM »
This patch should be bedazzled and/or sparkly. Maybe even one that would light up and blink!

So modeled after the Air Force Marksmanship badges? [with all due reverence to the sister service]
My Air Force small arms marksmanship expert medal is tactical... it's green. Even the bronze star on it is subdued. Extra tactical!

Yeah, I really shouldn't talk; the Marine Corps expert pistol and rifle badges are sparkly, the Navy ones are dark blue with zombie green stripes and shiny gold dangly bits with sparkly devices, and the Army ones are subdued, but still shiny. Sounds like the Air Force would be a good model after all!

Edit: If anyone was truly offended by my jibe, you have my apologies. I entered Active Duty under Reagan and still wear the uniform today, although I am on my 3rd branch of service: Army, Marines, and now Navy. If it matters, my shadowbox, when they finally tire of me and kick this old fossil out, will have expert pistol and rifle devices from all three services. It has been my joy to serve with members of all branches of service - active, reserve and guard - ground combat, afloat, and ashore, which is why I keeping taking orders; I'd rather serve with our nation's finest than do anything else. So please take my jest in the confines of mutual respect and inter-service  rivalry; my sister is a USAF Commanding Officer and seems to collect Marine jokes.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 02:16:33 PM by Chaps »
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Offline PaleRider

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2014, 10:24:34 AM »
Funny chaps....NOT! We only wear the blinking and sparkly medals on our mess dress! Geez!  ;D
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Offline hawkeye

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2014, 02:19:10 PM »
So now you guys want the patch and a tab in subdued colours and a bling version. Is that with or without blinking lights?
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Offline slim

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2014, 02:26:08 PM »
They should be like pistols themselves. Blued/parked or chrome/nickle. One for field work, one for flash.

Offline Lonestar6

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2014, 04:06:27 PM »
So now you guys want the patch and a tab in subdued colours and a bling version. Is that with or without blinking lights?

IR blinking lights would be acceptable.

Offline Fedup Flyer

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2014, 09:08:54 PM »
What is the status of the pistolman, pistoleer, pistolero patch?
Esp since it has been a year since I qualified for it.

My Rifleman patch is getting lonely.


How about at least a rocker panel to go with the rifleman rocker.

Offline Aim Small Hit Small

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Re: pistolseed patch
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2015, 07:49:02 PM »
I think the idea has died due to a lack of support.  Oh well, I tried.
June 15/16 2013 Rifleman (Charlotte, NC)
Feb. 7/8 2015 Rifleman (Boone, NC) (Winterseed)
April 18/19 2015 Rifleman (Ramseur, NC)
March, 2017 RBC Rifleman and KD Qualified
(Ramseur, NC) Took a Blue Hat.
April 22/23, 2017 Rifleman Requal (243)
Ramseur, NC
January 20/21, 2018 Rifleman Requal (244) Ramseur, NC
May 4/5, 2019 Rifleman Requal (249)
Ramseur, NC
May 24/25, 2019 KD Requal
Ramseur, NC