Is there a patch for Appleseed Pistol Clinic qualifiers?
Patches? Patches? We don need no stinkin patches!
My request for a "Pistolero" patch was denied. Last I heard they were still discussing it.
2cl
One would think that with all the pride that goes with earning the Rifleman patch it would be a no brainer to do a Pistol patch.
I believe Appleseed Pistol Clinic would see an increase in the event if a patch was offered.
the patch is a coveted treasure mounted on my wall.
the patch definaltey makes more people work harder
would it be the same patch just with pistolman instead of rifleman ?
also,,, is there a formal outline and procedure for Appleseed Pistol Clinic??
"A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon." ~ Napoleon Bonaparte
Quote from: CSTCoach on March 24, 2014, 11:38:01 PM
"A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon." ~ Napoleon Bonaparte
I like that...and it is true.
I never went to Appleseed for a patch. I went to learn.
When I earned the patch I was proud of it. But, it, my instructor, April 19, Shootboss, bootcamp, Senior Instructor, and other tabs stay in an envelope in my desk. My CMP silver in air rifle and bronze in EIC competition badges are on on the bookshelf across the room.
I would judge Bonaparte wrong. Men fight long and hard and are sometime awarded a bit of colored ribbon. I don't, however, think that they fight for it. I know or have known one man with the Medal of Honor, one man with the Navy cross, and three with the silver star. All but one was enlisted and those awards came from ground combat.
As one of the silver star recipients told me, "When it comes to medals like the silver star, it means things went seriously wrong and good people died. You don't want to get it." Since he tells the truth, I have to believe him.
On the question about formalization of the Appleseed Pistol Clinic. There is a POI and COI that are under revision.
Quote from: jmdavis on March 25, 2014, 12:05:27 AM
I never went to Appleseed for a patch. I went to learn.
When I earned the patch I was proud of it. But, it, my instructor, April 19, Shootboss, bootcamp, Senior Instructor, and other tabs stay in an envelope in my desk. My CMP silver in air rifle and bronze in EIC competition badges are on on the bookshelf across the room.
I would judge Bonaparte wrong. Men fight long and hard and are sometime awarded a bit of colored ribbon. I don't, however, think that they fight for it. I know or have known one man with the Medal of Honor, one man with the Navy cross, and three with the silver star. All but one was enlisted and those awards came from ground combat.
As one of the silver star recipients told me, "When it comes to medals like the silver star, it means things went seriously wrong and good people died. You don't want to get it." Since he tells the truth, I have to believe him.
That's because they are heroes.
For the average shooter, the patch is important. It symbolizes an accomplishment that is outside their day-to-day lives.
tk
We are still working on the patch , earning money got in the way of pursuing the patch and some other details of the project. I'm back on track now. What do you think of a Rifleman patch with pistol in place of Rifleman or a pistol tab to add under the Rifleman patch? I believe this would be a more uniform approach to adding the patch. I'm not a patch collector either I'm in it for the knowledge gained at each shoot and the pride I fill watching the kids learn an uniquely American skill.
I like "Pistoleer™" (a term that would've actually been used in the 18th century) better than Pistolman. Though we could just start off with a rocker to put under an RWVA patch.
I was thinking of just having Pistol on the patch, not pistolman.
In the military tradition from which Appleseed is drawn, qualification with different platforms are indicated with distinct devices, not a tab, rocker or additive to a single qualification device; tabs, rockers, ladders, etc. are used to indicate levels or number of times qualified, like adjectives to the original patch. Therefore I would think that a separate patch would be most appropriate. Furthermore, does it necessarily follow that someone who is instructor qualified for Rifle will also be for Pistol, or will there be a separate course for that? In which case there would be a separate tab for that.
Quote from: Chaps on March 25, 2014, 07:21:07 PM
In the military tradition from which Appleseed is drawn, qualification with different platforms are indicated with distinct devices, not a tab, rocker or additive to a single qualification device; tabs, rockers, ladders, etc. are used to indicate levels or number of times qualified, like adjectives to the original patch. Therefore I would think that a separate patch would be most appropriate. Furthermore, does it necessarily follow that someone who is instructor qualified for Rifle will also be for Pistol, or will there be a separate course for that? In which case there would be a separate tab for that.
I agree at the least it requires a different patch name and distinct color change
With all due candor and respect to my colleagues posting in this thread and coming from a distinctly US Army perspective; the US Army marksmanship badges indicated level of proficiency with a bar attached for each weapon you attained that profieciency with. Therefore if I attained an Expert rating with both rifle and pistol I would wear one badge with a rifle and pistol bar attached. Per Ar 70-1 you can only have three bars per badge; you are allowed up to three badges. For the curious I have gleaned the excerpt from the Military Awards regulation for your reference. Table 8-2 is long but includes Rifle, Pistol, Smallbore Rifle, Smallbore Pistol, Carbine and interestingly enough to Appleseeders: Bayonet. I looked at bayonet in the table tonight through a whole new lens, my Appleseed lens, and I smiled. So, with my documentation in order I would suggest a rocker may be a great option until and after a patch is designed.
Per AR 600-8-22:
Section IV
Marksmanship Badges and Tabs
8-47. U.S. Army Basic Marksmanship Qualification Badges
a. A basic marksmanship qualification badge is awarded to indicate the degree in which an individual, military or
civilian, has qualified in a prescribed record course and an appropriate bar is furnished to denote each weapon with
which he or she qualified. Each bar will be attached to the basic badge that indicates the qualification last attained with
the respective weapon. Basic qualification badges are of three classes. Expert, Sharpshooter, and Marksman. The only
weapons for which component bars are authorized are in table 8-2 at the end of this chapter. Basic marksmanship
qualification badges are awarded to U.S. military and civilian personnel, and to foreign military personnel who qualify
as prescribed.
Respectfully submitted,
LS6
Quote from: Lonestar6 on March 26, 2014, 05:12:32 AM
With all due candor and respect to my colleagues posting in this thread and coming from a distinctly US Army perspective; the US Army marksmanship badges indicated level of proficiency with a bar attached for each weapon you attained that profieciency with. Therefore if I attained an Expert rating with both rifle and pistol I would wear one badge with a rifle and pistol bar attached. Per Ar 70-1 you can only have three bars per badge; you are allowed up to three badges. For the curious I have gleaned the excerpt from the Military Awards regulation for your reference. Table 8-2 is long but includes Rifle, Pistol, Smallbore Rifle, Smallbore Pistol, Carbine and interestingly enough to Appleseeders: Bayonet. I looked at bayonet in the table tonight through a whole new lens, my Appleseed lens, and I smiled. So, with my documentation in order I would suggest a rocker may be a great option until and after a patch is designed.
Correct to the point of the Distinguished Badge or EIC Bronze or Silver Medals, at which point you would wear the Rifle and/or pistol EIC or Distinguished Badges in lieu of the Qualification badge. So you might have a Distinguished Rifle or EIC Silver along with an Expert for pistol etc. Or you might have Distinguished badges in multiple disciplines such as Rifle, Pistol and International (pretty rare to find Triple Distinguished individuals though). There are also badges allowed for excellence in Intraservice and other competitions. Different services also have different rules.
But there are tabs that may be worn by all Army personnel and certain Coast Guard and Navy enlisted to denote marksmanship excellence as well. These would include the President's 100 tab and the Governors 20 or 10 (for USANG) tab.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marksmanship_Badges_(United_States)
This patch should be bedazzled and/or sparkly. Maybe even one that would light up and blink!
Quote from: slim on March 26, 2014, 03:27:53 PM
This patch should be bedazzled and/or sparkly. Maybe even one that would light up and blink!
So modeled after the Air Force Marksmanship badges? [with all due reverence to the sister service]
Quote from: Chaps on March 26, 2014, 05:20:42 PM
Quote from: slim on March 26, 2014, 03:27:53 PM
This patch should be bedazzled and/or sparkly. Maybe even one that would light up and blink!
So modeled after the Air Force Marksmanship badges? [with all due reverence to the sister service]
My Air Force small arms marksmanship expert medal is tactical... it's green. Even the bronze star on it is subdued. Extra tactical!
Quote from: slim on March 26, 2014, 06:27:33 PM
Quote from: Chaps on March 26, 2014, 05:20:42 PM
Quote from: slim on March 26, 2014, 03:27:53 PM
This patch should be bedazzled and/or sparkly. Maybe even one that would light up and blink!
So modeled after the Air Force Marksmanship badges? [with all due reverence to the sister service]
My Air Force small arms marksmanship expert medal is tactical... it's green. Even the bronze star on it is subdued. Extra tactical!
Yeah, I really shouldn't talk; the Marine Corps expert pistol and rifle badges are sparkly, the Navy ones are dark blue with zombie green stripes and shiny gold dangly bits with sparkly devices, and the Army ones are subdued, but still shiny. Sounds like the Air Force would be a good model after all!
Edit: If anyone was truly offended by my jibe, you have my apologies. I entered Active Duty under Reagan and still wear the uniform today, although I am on my 3rd branch of service: Army, Marines, and now Navy. If it matters, my shadowbox, when they finally tire of me and kick this old fossil out, will have expert pistol and rifle devices from all three services. It has been my joy to serve with members of all branches of service - active, reserve and guard - ground combat, afloat, and ashore, which is why I keeping taking orders; I'd rather serve with our nation's finest than do anything else. So please take my jest in the confines of mutual respect and inter-service rivalry; my sister is a USAF Commanding Officer and seems to collect Marine jokes.
Funny chaps....NOT! We only wear the blinking and sparkly medals on our mess dress! Geez! ;D
So now you guys want the patch and a tab in subdued colours and a bling version. Is that with or without blinking lights?
They should be like pistols themselves. Blued/parked or chrome/nickle. One for field work, one for flash.
Quote from: hawkeye on March 27, 2014, 02:19:10 PM
So now you guys want the patch and a tab in subdued colours and a bling version. Is that with or without blinking lights?
IR blinking lights would be acceptable.
What is the status of the pistolman, Pistoleer™, pistolero patch?
Esp since it has been a year since I qualified for it.
My Rifleman patch is getting lonely.
How about at least a rocker panel to go with the rifleman rocker.
I think the idea has died due to a lack of support. Oh well, I tried.