Author Topic: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle  (Read 1889 times)

Offline cyclingbob

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Hi to All,
I will be shooting a 1022 at North Berwick on 9/14 and 15.

I am considering bringing my .177 Crosman  Benjamin Marauder as a backup rifle. Is a pellet gun allowed at Appleseed Shoot? Tested velocity with factory chronograph ranges 982 to 999 over 10 shots. This rifle is a blast to shoot.

Thanks a bunch
Bob

Offline 2 clicks low

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Re: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2013, 12:41:38 PM »
Unless you have done home gun-smithing beyond your skills, there is no real need of a backup for a 10/22. They are extremely reliable.

Get good (tech) sights or a low power scope. AND A SLING.

In the unlikely event of a problem, most time the instructors can fix it on the spot. If not they just might lend you their rifle.

It is up to your SB if you can use a BB gun on the line but I have never seen one at an AS.

2cl
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Offline Charles McKinley

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Re: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2013, 01:53:28 PM »
I see two potential problems.  I'm not Sure how fast you can do the mag changes. How many shots do you have before change of impact starts?

As stated you shouldn't need a back up to a 10/22.  You will need tech sights or a scope, swivel studs and a sling.

You will need a tank to fill it as you will not have time to use a manual pump.

With a full tank it would not hurt to try an AQT with it after you have shot Rifleman.

Welcome and enjoy your first Appleseed.
Last evening, it occurred to me that when a defender of Liberty is called home, their load lands upon the shoulders of the defenders left behind. Just as the Founders did their duty for Liberty, every subsequent generation must continue their work lest Liberty perish. As there is no way for the remaining adults to take on the work of those that die, we must pass the ideals and duties on to the children. -PHenery

Offline cyclingbob

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Re: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2013, 03:47:56 PM »
Thanks for the posts.

True confessions. First Appleseed in 2011 but I had to skip 2012 due to illness. I will be happy just to be able to participate in 2013.

I shot a Bolt Action first shoot so I know the bolt action makes things interesting.

For 2013 I have a 1022 Target with Sweet 22 scope and GI sling.

I will concentrate on the 1022  Riflemen this year and have some fun in the process. If I make it then I can have even more fun with the PCP.

PCP Marauder update

I have 4 -10 shot mags. and changing out can be done reasonably fast. We'll see if its fast enough.

Leapers AccuShot 3-12x44 30 mm scope. Very nice.

I have an 80 cubic inch tank and one fill should work for the 40 shots of the AQT. I can fill the rifle reservoir in about 3 minutes. 

I also can swap out the sling I use for the 1022 so I have the sling covered.

The Marauder is fine rifle and a blast to shoot. Very accurate at 50'. I will test at 82' and if accurate results will give it a try. No worries about ammo.

Look forward to the shoot at North Berwick, ME in Sept. 2013.

Thanks to all for suggestions.

Bob

Offline jmdavis

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Re: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2013, 05:03:49 PM »
I have the crossman MAR177 PCP upper for my AR, so I can answer some of your questions.

1. They are quite accurate at 25m (as I am sure the marauder will be).

2. Shooting mags of 2 and 8 may be a problem. I have the same magazines in the MAR177.  But the real reason for the mag change isn't to test your ability to change a magazine. It is to cause you to break position and NPOA. You can break NPOA without a "magazine change (as one might with a tube fed).

3. Depending on how you are cycling the bolt you may be breaking position anyway to operate the rifle.

4. I do agree with the advice to give it a try. More importantly use the time with the Marauder as training time. I believe that airgun training is some of the best training around. Airgun forces you to develop good follow through and good follow through applied to rifle shooting can make for really small groups.

Proponents of Airgun training include the Army Marksmanship Unit and David Tubb. It works!!!!

5. You might be the first person to publicly shoot a rifleman score with an airgun. That could be cool.

I think, though, that the reservoir on your rifle is 80cc, not 80ci. 80 cubic inches is around 1311 cc or larger than the the bore size of the original Volkswagens. It is in fact the size of a Harley engine.

"If a man does his best, what else is there?"  - General George S. Patton Jr

  ...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
  Shall be my brother...-Shakespeare, Henry V
 

"There's a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top. Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and is much less prevalent. One of the most frequently noted characteristics of great men who have remained great is loyalty to their subordinates."
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Offline jmdavis

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Re: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2013, 05:15:01 PM »
By the way, I have brought my MAR-177 "BB Gun" to several Appleseeds for demo purposes. At 25m with the iron sights it averages around 1moa  in prone. It is absolutely capable of cleaning an AQT.
"If a man does his best, what else is there?"  - General George S. Patton Jr

  ...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
  Shall be my brother...-Shakespeare, Henry V
 

"There's a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top. Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and is much less prevalent. One of the most frequently noted characteristics of great men who have remained great is loyalty to their subordinates."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Your body can't go where your mind hasn't been."
- Alex Arrieta 1995 NTI Winner

Offline eaglescouter

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Re: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2013, 05:16:04 PM »
Hi to All,
I will be shooting a 1022 at North Berwick on 9/14 and 15.

I am considering bringing my .177 Crosman  Benjamin Marauder as a backup rifle. Is a pellet gun allowed at Appleseed Shoot? Tested velocity with factory chronograph ranges 982 to 999 over 10 shots. This rifle is a blast to shoot.

Thanks a bunch
Bob

I believe the focus of this discussion should be refined to "Is it permissible to use an air rifle at an Appleseed event?"

Can an airgun score a rifleman score is an entirely different question, as would be blow gun darts.

Quote
From the RWVA Web Page FAQ's:

What kind of rifle do I need? What kind of sights are allowed?

Appleseed is content-free, so in regards to sights: you can use any. Rifles? Well, you can use any safe firearm which can be accurately shot from the shoulder, from a .22 to a .32 (8mm). We're semi-auto and bolt-gun friendly. The important thing is that it works, so before you come to a shoot make sure you clean it, break it in (if need be), and lube it properly in preparation for the day. Due to the high cost of ammo, we recommend using a .22 for the training on Saturday and if the range you are shooting at has a long distance range, then bring your center fire rifle for that on Sunday.

What caliber is best?

In a nutshell: they all are. Appleseed is not caliber-specific. It doesn't matter to us if you use .308, .30-06, .223, .22, 7.62x39, 8mm, .303 -- they're all fine. Marksmanship and caliber are independent of each other. If you're a good marksman, you'll be able to hit with any caliber. So, if you have an AR-15, SKS, or 10/22 please feel free to join us.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 05:19:14 PM by eaglescouter »
Make yourselves good scouts and good rifle shots in order to protect the women and children of your country if it should ever become necessary.
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Offline jmdavis

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Re: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2013, 05:26:51 PM »
[

I believe the focus of this discussion should be refined to "Is it permissible to use an air rifle at an Appleseed event?"

Can an airgun score a rifleman score is an entirely different question, as would be blow gun darts.


The answer to the first  question is "That is up to the shoot boss." As a shootboss I would have certainly allowed it if it was 1. Safe and 2. Not so much of a handicap that I believed it would frustrate the shooter.

There is nothing in even the most recent instructor manual to prohibit it.

The answer to the second is that an airgun can and has shot rifleman scores.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 07:59:55 PM by jmdavis »
"If a man does his best, what else is there?"  - General George S. Patton Jr

  ...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
  Shall be my brother...-Shakespeare, Henry V
 

"There's a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top. Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and is much less prevalent. One of the most frequently noted characteristics of great men who have remained great is loyalty to their subordinates."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Your body can't go where your mind hasn't been."
- Alex Arrieta 1995 NTI Winner

Offline BeSwift

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Re: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2013, 09:43:06 PM »
One of the things on my "to do" list is to explore the possibility of a Air RifleSeed as a way to expand the program. As a SB, if a shooter is able to safely perform the COF, I see no issue with is myself...  BeSwift
"The purpose of life is not to be happy. It is to be useful, to be honorable, to be compassionate, to have it make some difference that you have lived and lived well"
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Offline Charles McKinley

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Re: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2013, 11:40:33 PM »
The 80 cu. in. tank is a scuba tank to refill the small tank on the rifle.
Last evening, it occurred to me that when a defender of Liberty is called home, their load lands upon the shoulders of the defenders left behind. Just as the Founders did their duty for Liberty, every subsequent generation must continue their work lest Liberty perish. As there is no way for the remaining adults to take on the work of those that die, we must pass the ideals and duties on to the children. -PHenery

Offline jmdavis

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Re: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2013, 11:56:06 PM »
I guess it is possible to have an 80CI tank, but my scuba tanks are 80cf (cubic feet, at 3000 psi).
"If a man does his best, what else is there?"  - General George S. Patton Jr

  ...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
  Shall be my brother...-Shakespeare, Henry V
 

"There's a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top. Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and is much less prevalent. One of the most frequently noted characteristics of great men who have remained great is loyalty to their subordinates."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Your body can't go where your mind hasn't been."
- Alex Arrieta 1995 NTI Winner

Offline Charles McKinley

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Re: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2013, 11:01:12 AM »
Oops! :-[  Those pesky units got me.  At least it wasn't a multi million dollar Mars rover.
Last evening, it occurred to me that when a defender of Liberty is called home, their load lands upon the shoulders of the defenders left behind. Just as the Founders did their duty for Liberty, every subsequent generation must continue their work lest Liberty perish. As there is no way for the remaining adults to take on the work of those that die, we must pass the ideals and duties on to the children. -PHenery

Offline cyclingbob

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Re: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2013, 01:47:06 PM »
My Bad. Sorry for the confusion.

Yes. I have an 80 cubic foot scuba tank. Ugh. Pesky units indeed.

My other left.

It is a comfort to know that details matter.

We shoot pellet guns of all types during the winter.  The Crosman Marauder PCP .177 is great training - fun, inexpensive to shoot and incredibly accurate. Very cool with the Leaper's scope.

My wife is a gardener and when the garden range goes hot she is pleased I am thinning the varmint herd. Crosman's comment on the box says the varmints..."never here it coming." True enough.

Thanks a bunch.

Bob


Offline The Old Guide

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Re: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2013, 08:03:32 AM »
I just noticed this thread and since the subject shoot is in Maine I'll chime in.

This is not a BB gun. It is a highly accurate rifle.

As State Coordinator I would allow it to be used on the line.

There is no need to break cheek weld to work most bolt actions.

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Offline cyclingbob

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Re: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2013, 09:25:30 AM »
I just sighted the Benjamin Marauder  .177 at 82 feet shooting at the black one inch squares on the "25 Meter Drill Targets."  Leapers AccuShot 3-12x44 30 mm - great scope.

I also zeroed my 1022 Ruger with basic BSA Sweet 22 scope.

The accuracy death match puts the BM a bit ahead of the Ruger.
 
Breathtaking for both. There is no loser here.

Bob


Offline Niskibum

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Re: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2013, 10:46:00 AM »
Is the Leapers AccuShot designed for an air rifle? If not you might want to take it off the air rifle before it gets destroyed.

Offline cyclingbob

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Re: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2013, 11:28:59 AM »
Niskibum

Yes the Leapers is for air guns and in particular spring piston power plant. The PCP BMar has nearly zero recoil and a whisper at the shot. Take a look at http://www.pyramydair.com/    Very good video on BM.

Thanks for your concern.

Bob

Offline Charles McKinley

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Re: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2013, 01:45:10 PM »
Yep PCP guns do not have the scope destroying recoil of the spring piston guns.  I really want one of the new AirForce  Condor SS. http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/AirForce_Condor_SS_PCP_Air_Rifle_Spin_Loc_Red/3065

Near .22 long performance and dime size groups at 50 yards with the right pellets.
Last evening, it occurred to me that when a defender of Liberty is called home, their load lands upon the shoulders of the defenders left behind. Just as the Founders did their duty for Liberty, every subsequent generation must continue their work lest Liberty perish. As there is no way for the remaining adults to take on the work of those that die, we must pass the ideals and duties on to the children. -PHenery

Offline jmdavis

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Re: Use of Precharged Pneumatic (PCP) at Appleseed shoot as backup rifle
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2013, 02:22:23 PM »
.

There is no need to break cheek weld to work most bolt actions.

The Old Guide

The MAR177 uses an AR style bolt handle and thus you need to move your head to load the next round into the chamber. This is not a serious disadvantage even with 60 seconds on the AQT.
"If a man does his best, what else is there?"  - General George S. Patton Jr

  ...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
  Shall be my brother...-Shakespeare, Henry V
 

"There's a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top. Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and is much less prevalent. One of the most frequently noted characteristics of great men who have remained great is loyalty to their subordinates."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Your body can't go where your mind hasn't been."
- Alex Arrieta 1995 NTI Winner