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Started by Rayne, June 19, 2013, 12:16:21 AM

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muffin308

#30
I will NOT become a collector.  **)   This is the conclusion I came to:

AR in 22LR, 223 and 308 (with adjustable stocks so they fit me, the wife and kids)  :---

in pistol:  Ruger LCP-380 auto (very small)  Glock 34-9mm (perfection)  and Springfield 1911-45acp (I like it's crisp light trigger, tighter slide tolerance and accuracy)  :~

IMO
There...!  His Majesty can now read my name without glasses.  And he can double the reward on my head!  - John Hancock
To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and to be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them. - Richard Henry Lee

Sly223

A half dozen is a collection,Sir,
And probably an Arsonal to the feds. ..:..
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What have you done for this program lately?
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C-1, Do-1, Teach many!
"Run all you want, you'll just die tired"!
There is U.S. & there is Dems!

jmdavis

A properly setup .223 shooting 69-77 gr bullets can accurately engage targets at ranges of 700 yards with a +65% first hit rate; if the shooter is trained and willing to try. This was proven at the first Military-seed back in 2009 when a group of artillery men were retasked and Boltgun71 ran them through a week long course firing a total of 350 rounds per man. I believe that total included 40 rounds for qual or alt C qual. They were using M4's (14.5 inch barrel) with ACOGS.

500 and 600 is absolutely doable with iron sights on targets such as the HP target, the Larue target and 18 inch steel gongs.

My point in bringing this up is to point out that a good bolt or semi-auto .223 has far more than a 400 yard effective range in the hands of someone trained to take advantage of it. You already have the basics of that training. All you lack is the experience. Perhaps at a later Atterbury event the cadre can be convinced to take the shooting out to 500 or even 600 if it is available. You can also look for midrange events called 3x600 which is 3-20 shot matches at 600 yards with 2 or more sighters available per match.

Regardless of rifle choice, don't sell yourself or your basic knowledge short.

Good luck.
"If a man does his best, what else is there?"  - General George S. Patton Jr

  ...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
  Shall be my brother...-Shakespeare, Henry V
 

"There's a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top. Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and is much less prevalent. One of the most frequently noted characteristics of great men who have remained great is loyalty to their subordinates."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Your body can't go where your mind hasn't been."
- Alex Arrieta 1995 NTI Winner

malabar

Affirmative. This is a common setup for mid-range (600-yard) shooting with heavy-barreled ARs.  In fact, from 600, the in-crowd hand-loads cartridges with 80-grain bullets. They're so long, they have to be loaded singly into the chamber.

tk


Quote from: jmdavis on June 20, 2013, 12:49:34 PM
A properly setup .223 shooting 69-77 gr bullets can accurately engage targets at ranges of 700 yards with a +65% first hit rate; if the shooter is trained and willing to try. This was proven at the first Military-seed back in 2009 when a group of artillery men were retasked and Boltgun71 ran them through a week long course firing a total of 350 rounds per man. I believe that total included 40 rounds for qual or alt C qual. They were using M4's (14.5 inch barrel) with ACOGS.

500 and 600 is absolutely doable with iron sights on targets such as the HP target, the Larue target and 18 inch steel gongs.

My point in bringing this up is to point out that a good bolt or semi-auto .223 has far more than a 400 yard effective range in the hands of someone trained to take advantage of it. You already have the basics of that training. All you lack is the experience. Perhaps at a later Atterbury event the cadre can be convinced to take the shooting out to 500 or even 600 if it is available. You can also look for midrange events called 3x600 which is 3-20 shot matches at 600 yards with 2 or more sighters available per match.

Regardless of rifle choice, don't sell yourself or your basic knowledge short.

Good luck.
The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed -- where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once.

-- Justice Alex Kozinski, US 9th Circuit Court, 2003

jmdavis

I forgot to mention that those 700 yard hits were with M855 62gr as well. 69 should do better in a a 1:9 barrel.
"If a man does his best, what else is there?"  - General George S. Patton Jr

  ...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
  Shall be my brother...-Shakespeare, Henry V
 

"There's a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top. Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and is much less prevalent. One of the most frequently noted characteristics of great men who have remained great is loyalty to their subordinates."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Your body can't go where your mind hasn't been."
- Alex Arrieta 1995 NTI Winner

Hop

A 16" 300 AAC Blackout / AR-15 might interest you.  30 cal bullet that can easily go that distance and isn't as prone to getting blown off course.  The ammo is hard to find right now though.  The best part about an AR is swapping uppers.  .22 upper for a 25 yard 'seed, .458 SOCOM upper for legal deer hunting in Indiana, 5.56mm for tyrants, etc...   :cool2:

dart67eb

My go to rifle if I could only carry one is my 20" HB AR-15 A3 with detachable handle and fixed stock.  I'll add an Aimpoint PRO when I get some change.
Ignorance may be bliss, but it's not a virtue.

techres

Quote from: Hop on June 20, 2013, 05:11:08 PM
A 16" 300 AAC Blackout / AR-15 might interest you. 

Rayne, the auto AR at your first shoot was a 300 AAC Blackout - the one I was doing a challenge against.  It is another great choice for someone who knows how to load their own.  Oh, wait, like you do already!
Appleseed: Bringing the Past into the Present to save our Future.

Rayne

#38
~
QuoteDo not forget those who fought for your Liberties and Freedoms and take care to guard them against all tyranny.

techres

Appleseed: Bringing the Past into the Present to save our Future.

Mudcat

I have a 16" 300 Blackout  AR as my "fighting or door kicking" rifle It is a great carbine and very effective. I have shot it out to 500 yards and yes it works but when you get out past 350 you had better be good at range estimation. Lots of drop to dial in especially with the 147 gran M80s with the 110 grain it is not as bad. I run a red dot on mine and it is not the greatest for dialing elevation with.
When I think of going to do KD or out to 500 yards it is not my first choice, my MVP is my first choice now because I enjoy shooting bolt action rifles and a very close second in my Garand. The .223 is cheaper to shoot and cheaper means more practice which means more fun.
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
--George Washington

AuntieBellum

I'm a'thinkin' this might call for an "everyone show up with their centerfire rifles so Rayne can try it" range day.  ;)
"Nothing is as strong as the heart of a volunteer."
-Lt. Colonel James Harold "Jimmy" Doolittle, US Army Air Corps, 1942

"You smell like Appleseed." - Rimshot

techres

Quote from: AuntieBellum on June 20, 2013, 11:05:11 PM
I'm a'thinkin' this might call for an "everyone show up with their centerfire rifles so Rayne can try it" range day.  ;)

Easy to do on an instructor day. 
Appleseed: Bringing the Past into the Present to save our Future.

Charles McKinley

What I have noticed with the longer barrel on the MVP Varmit compared to the shorter barreled .223 like the mini 14 is no to very little muzle flash and it is noticably quieter.
Last evening, it occurred to me that when a defender of Liberty is called home, their load lands upon the shoulders of the defenders left behind. Just as the Founders did their duty for Liberty, every subsequent generation must continue their work lest Liberty perish. As there is no way for the remaining adults to take on the work of those that die, we must pass the ideals and duties on to the children. -PHenery

AAOptics

Quote from: techres on June 20, 2013, 11:31:04 PM
Quote from: AuntieBellum on June 20, 2013, 11:05:11 PM
I'm a'thinkin' this might call for an "everyone show up with their centerfire rifles so Rayne can try it" range day.  ;)

Easy to do on an instructor day.

Informal shoot at my house in the winter?

Rayne

#45
~

QuoteDo not forget those who fought for your Liberties and Freedoms and take care to guard them against all tyranny.

brianheeter

Quote from: 42769vette on June 21, 2013, 09:34:31 AM
Informal shoot at my house in the winter?

Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!  ^This^

(Where's the emoticon for the guy hopping up and down in eager anticipation like he has to pee?)

I would love to have a day where Instructors (and generous range hosts   :)  )get together, bring rifles for other people to try (why not pistols, too, if the venue will support it?) and we just have session of, "Hey, I've heard and read about these but have never had the chance to handle one let alone shoot it."

brian
(refuse to) Kiss the Ring!

Hop

 :(  could I come out to play too or do I need a funny colored hat.   :-\

Brown

Quote from: Hop on June 21, 2013, 01:27:30 PM
:(  could I come out to play too or do I need a funny colored hat.   :-\

You have heard the history enough time can probably do it yourself so I vote for the funny colored hat. although I think I look pretty dang good in Red #)
I have noticed you get things done and I respect that-SPQR

Hop

A good buddy just listed the following stuff for sale.  If you want to try an AR platform that is...

I guess let me know if you want pictures.  He didn't list a price, just best offer.  He needs some new machine tools to get some new products into productions.  He keeps everything in near new conditions.

I haven't seen if there's a 4 sale area here yet.  I'll take a quick look and remove this if it's breaking a rule.
   
(1) HK 5.56 new
(1) Elcan DR 1.4x6 Scope
(1) ATN PS40-4 Night Vison
(1) Daniel Defense M4 v3 6.8 spc mint
(11) PRI6.8 mags
(2500) Rem, Hornaday 6.8 ammo

Rayne

#50
~
QuoteDo not forget those who fought for your Liberties and Freedoms and take care to guard them against all tyranny.

techres

Quote from: Rayne on June 21, 2013, 04:32:39 PM
Have you tried a green one on yet?  :cool2:

So Rayne agrees to take the orange if Brown takes the green?  Sounds like a win-win to me.
Appleseed: Bringing the Past into the Present to save our Future.

Rayne

#52
~
QuoteDo not forget those who fought for your Liberties and Freedoms and take care to guard them against all tyranny.

Brown

Nah. I collected that green hat from the Nashville shoot middle last september.

so. I have the GH and a VERY slightly used orange hat all ready for ya ~~:)

Quote from: Rayne on June 21, 2013, 05:26:45 PM
Quote from: techres on June 21, 2013, 05:14:13 PM
Quote from: Rayne on June 21, 2013, 04:32:39 PM
Have you tried a green one on yet?  :cool2:

So Rayne agrees to take the orange if Brown takes the green?  Sounds like a win-win to me.

I believe he has to earn his green hat and I haven't earned my orange one either.  I'm just wondering how far off he is from getting that green hat.  I remember him being an orange hat last year.
I have noticed you get things done and I respect that-SPQR

Slow2Speak

Yeah Rayne Brown is green he progress checked me into my red so where you gonna sighn up for your first shoot as orange :pop:

grunt soldier

Plus if you took that orange hat you could come to atterbury instructor shoot and try out whatever you decide :). It's in a few weeks!  Or you could show up out there and try lots of different set ups! 
custom kydex solutions.  specializing in sheaths and holsters.  let me know if I can do something for you fellow seeders :)  some pics of our work below

http://s967.photobucket.com/albums/ae158/gruntsoldier2/

"When it comes time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home." - Chief Aupumut (1725), Mohican.

Rayne

#56
~
QuoteDo not forget those who fought for your Liberties and Freedoms and take care to guard them against all tyranny.

Brown

Quote from: Slow2Speak on June 21, 2013, 08:52:16 PM
Yeah Rayne Brown is green he progress checked me into my red so where you gonna sighn up for your first shoot as orange :pop:

I see what you did there ;)
I have noticed you get things done and I respect that-SPQR

TaosGlock

Quote from: Rayne on June 19, 2013, 12:16:21 AM
  I'll let you know, I'm not a big fan of the AR platform, probably due to the fact I'm not that familar with them. I'd prefer semi auto, but do like bolt guns quiet a bit.  I definately want an external magazine that can hold at least 10 rounds so I can use it in KD appleseeds. 

My wife BlueFeather tried many of the MBR platforms in various calibers and prefered the AR hands down. Her first Expert score was shot with an AR at  her second Appleseed. Great ergos, easy to shoot, user friendly, fast to reload under time constraints especially if under stress and super accurate.

The AR can be custom tailored to fit you. Something most MBR's do not lend themselves to.
I am not talking about tacti-cool bling type stuff, but all the variations of the AR style.

Once you are "familar" with them you may decide you like it.
They are super easy to score Expert on the KD AQT. See our thread on BSZ and AR's here:
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=36211.0;topicseen
89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director/Current Lead Rifle Instructor: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

oladcock

Quote from: TaosGlock on June 22, 2013, 09:32:38 PM
Quote from: Rayne on June 19, 2013, 12:16:21 AM
  I'll let you know, I'm not a big fan of the AR platform, probably due to the fact I'm not that familar with them. I'd prefer semi auto, but do like bolt guns quiet a bit.  I definately want an external magazine that can hold at least 10 rounds so I can use it in KD appleseeds. 

My wife BlueFeather tried many of the MBR platforms in various calibers and prefered the AR hands down. Her first Expert score was shot with an AR at  her second Appleseed. Great ergos, easy to shoot, user friendly, fast to reload under time constraints especially if under stress and super accurate.

The AR can be custom tailored to fit you. Something most MBR's do not lend themselves to.
I am not talking about tacti-cool bling type stuff, but all the variations of the AR style.

Once you are "familar" with them you may decide you like it.
They are super easy to score Expert on the KD AQT. See our thread on BSZ and AR's here:
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=36211.0;topicseen


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