Author Topic: San Jose KD 3/30-31/13 Planning Thread  (Read 866 times)

Offline Nero

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San Jose KD 3/30-31/13 Planning Thread
« on: March 06, 2013, 08:19:56 PM »
This is a publicly accessible thread for the upcoming shoot at San Jose's Metcalf range.  This features both long distance shooting out to 200 yards, and a simultaneous 25m AQT 'grind' for those working on score.  Since the range setup, logistical details, and course of fire will differ from the usual Appleseed shoot, this is a spot to find out what's going on and ask questions.  This will also be the landing spot for a 'warm up' message going out to shooters about 10 days in advance.

To get things started, based on experiences last time, I've done a bit of redesign on the target frames.  The frames themselves are the same, but the backer setups have changed.  There are two setups.  Here's number one:



If that doesn't stop people from cross-firing, I don't know what will!   &)  These will be used with QDAQTs and squares at 25 meters, with one frame downrange from each bay on the firing line.  They are also used with 'Advanced AQT' 100 yard silhouettes at 75 and 100 yards for stages 3 and 4 of the long distance AQT respectively.

Note that the end backers overlap the target frame verticals, so we'll be asking shooters to keep their targets off this area, and asking centerfire shooters to pick the center spots.  The frames can soak up a fair amount of punishment, based on experience last time.

Here's design #2:



(There are also yellow/red colored frames of similar design.)  These are used with full distance AQT repair centers at 100 and 200 yards for stages 1 and 2 of the long distance AQT respectively.  Long distance shooters will be assigned a consistent color for all of their stages.

It's a bit hard to see in the photo, but the backers are attached by heavy rubber bands to screws sunk vertically in the top and bottom frame rails.  This allows the entire backer and target to be quickly removed, replaced, and the target scored and patched back behind the firing line.  If we are shooting relays, each shooter will have one backer and target for each of 100 and 200 yards, will hang the target for his relay partner when pulling his own, and will then score and patch while the other relay is shooting.  If we are not shooting relays, each shooter will have two backer/targets for each distance (four total) and can quickly swap them while downrange.

Each of these frames is mounted to foundation stakes with two 14" zip ties per side.  We tried this when the mounting screws got mislaid at the last shoot, and it looks like it is stable enough, barring high winds.

Offline Nero

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Re: San Jose KD 3/30-31/13 Planning Thread
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2013, 07:36:21 PM »
What to bring:

In addition to your usual gear, shooters (and instructors) planning to shoot out to 200 yards ('known distance' or 'KD') should bring:

A small notebook for recording come-ups and current sight settings
Masking tape for patching targets
Black magic marker for coloring the tape
A pair of work gloves for setting up / tearing down target frames (lots of splinters and other pokey things)

In addition, if you have the following please bring them, it'll speed things up to have more:

Spotting scopes and tripods
3 lb or better sledge hammer

And if anyone has a laser rangefinder, that would be awesome, please post in this thread.

Offline spook_one

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Re: San Jose KD 3/30-31/13 Planning Thread
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2013, 05:27:45 AM »
Hey Simon here (1st post, will be 5th appleseed)

90% Sure i can bring a range finder. (will confirm by monday)
Can definitely bring a 3lbs sledge & gloves
+ always bring Scope, Tripod, Tape and marker (even on the bike)
if other tools (screw-gun/staple-gun) 're useful LMK... tho space on the bike is limited

FWIW i'm most interested in the long distance
tho  much to my consternation, in four classes i _still_ haven't beat 196
and am happy to do some 'grinding' to let others have turn at long distance
but the longer range w/ instruction is much harder to come by so that what i'm most interested in

I'm thinking I want to zero my AR for 100, and just change my hold over for 25, that seem reasonable?

Offline Nero

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Re: San Jose KD 3/30-31/13 Planning Thread
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2013, 11:16:02 AM »
I'm thinking I want to zero my AR for 100, and just change my hold over for 25, that seem reasonable?

Part of the long distance program is determining 'come ups' for your rifle, so you can quickly change the sights among various ranges (that's why it's called "known distance").

Offline Nero

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Re: San Jose KD 3/30-31/13 Planning Thread
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2013, 09:15:16 PM »
Procedures for known distance AQTs at the Metcalf shoot:

Since we are limited to 200 yards:
Stage 1 will be fired on full sized targets at 100 yards
Stage 2 will be fired on full sized targets at 200 yards
Stage 3 will be fired on scaled targets at 75 yards
Stage 4 will be fired on scaled targets at 100 yards

There will be 10 record shots on each target, that is, each shooter will have a single target silhouette for each stage.  Stage 4 will count double as usual, so there are a total of 50 shots, as scored.

Since the full sized targets we are using have only the 4 and 5 point scoring areas, we will use the 'Hits Count' rules: Only shots in the black count (on all stages), and an 80% score (40 of the 50 possible hits, including doubled stage 4) makes KD Rifleman.

The '30 caliber rule' will NOT apply to stages 1 and 2, since they are full size.  That rule WILL apply to stages 3 and 4, since those targets are scaled.

The stage 3 and 4 scaled targets are one-use and will be replaced for each AQT.  The full-sized targets for stages 1 and 2 will be attached to easily removable backers.  When we are firing relays, the shooter just completing an AQT will go downrange, remove his stage 1 and 2 backers, and take those and the one-use stage 3 and 4 targets behind the firing line.  Shots from the full scale targets will be transferred to witness targets, and the holes patched.  Shooters may also want to transfer the shots to record sheets, such as those attached, to help with sight adjustment and building a record book for the rifle.  (Thanks to yellowhousejake and the Indiana cadre for the record sheets.)  We'll have a few of these available at the shoot, but you may want to print out some for yourself.

Offline bigbwana

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Re: San Jose KD 3/30-31/13 Planning Thread
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2013, 05:48:09 PM »
Howdy Folks,

I'm looking forward to the weekend!

Nero-I can bring a small sledgehammer and a spotting scope.

See you all soon,

Jeff

Offline Eljay

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Re: San Jose KD 3/30-31/13 Planning Thread
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2013, 09:05:26 PM »
@spook_one If part of your problem is mental (which it may very well be at this point), the very best thing for you might be to spend a half day or a day shooting at distance, then the 25m ones won't seem so bad.

Offline Nero

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Re: San Jose KD 3/30-31/13 Planning Thread
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2013, 09:02:27 PM »
Lessons learned from this one:

Range setup and logistics:

Color coded backers and frames worked very well at reducing crossfires.  A bit spendy, but given the actual amount of damage sustained, we can probably use the same backers for quite a few shoots.  Quick disconnects (rubber bands) worked well also, held up in the face of significant wind.  But they break, come loose, get lost, so have lots of spares on hand. 

Use the staples, not pushpins on the full size D-targets.  They are meant to be patched, not replaced, so there's no advantage to the pushpins, and they can get knocked loose while transporting the backer, or the wind can get under the D target and pull them out.

Time to give up on the wire attachments for the small backers.  With the new source I've found, it'll cost about $4 for zipties to mount them, a good value compared to the time and risk of injury for mounting and dismounting with the wires.

Limited damage and no casualties among the target frames.  No damage at all to the foundation stake mountings.  Looks like this kit will last for a while.   O0

Program:

This batch of shooters was more dialed-in than the previous event, and moved more quickly to the KD part of the line.  We were shooting KD AQT for score on Saturday AM - didn't get to that until Sunday AM last time!   Under the assumption that this trend continues (which means these events stay 'previous shooter only') we need to have a specific instructional unit on KD firing procedures right at the start, rather than dribbling that out as folks move over from the 25m line.  Albert wrote a quick procedural handout which we taught on Sunday, and can keep refining.

Consider this as mostly a KD event, which happens to have a 25m line for initial sight-in and for firing QD AQTs as logistics allow, and build the COF in that fashion.  Since the next two events here will be one-day only, we'll get a chance to try out that approach.  This would also eliminate the target frame reset on Sunday AM, for two day events.

Shorter and more frequent breaks for history, instruction, etc.

Discussion on history of gun rights well received.  Developing that, Washington's Crossing material (and stealing the Indiana crew's material  >:D) should add some variety to the heritage.

Advanced shooters interested in expanding the range estimation exercise from a quicky 'fun shoot' to a more serious instruction unit.  We will work on that!   O0

We used sets of 4 MOA construction paper squares for sighting in for most shooters.  I tried using regular D targets when sighting, along with yellowhousejake's MOA grid forms.  That worked well for me, but no other takers when offered - shooters seemed happy with the simpler squares approach.  One attendee brought his own 'shoot and see' reactive targets for sighting - that also worked well.  Item for next time:  make 4 MOA squares in a variety of colors for each distance.  Bring some cheap easel or butcher paper for covering the 'holy' backers.  Mention 'shoot and sees' as option in the pre-event e-mail to shooters.