Maybe it's time to change our message

[mattra]

We refrain from discussing modern day politics and let attendees connect the dots for themselves, but maybe it's time to bridge the gap and start combating some of the misinformation that is out there - like what is and what is not an assault weapon and other propaganda favored by the gun grabbers.

We have an audience at many Appleseeds that may or may not respond well to discussions of modern day politics, but pretty soon, we might not be having many more Appleseeds. Different ideas are being floated in the current administration from the classification of ARs to NFA status (like silencers and legally transferable machine guns) to executive orders or even regular legislation where the GOP might crumble like a house of cards and allow the Dems to pass legislation that won't have a sunset provision and will make the last AWB look like a walk in the park.

I know some people out there think that what we need is to hit rock bottom and rebuild from there, but I don't think those people are truly prepared for what rock bottom means. Also, can you name me one country that has hit rock bottom and successfully rebuilt itself - I can't think of any.

I originally posted this over at Rimfirecentral out of respect for the usual status quo here concerning staying within the frame work of the Revolutionary War, but since they explicitly prohibit political discussion I figured I would risk it and post here as well.  It just might be time to be a little less subtle about the current state of affairs and a little more vocal about the rights that are currently being considered for the scrap heap. Maybe it's time to take the organizational power of the Appleseed group and start protesting in mass. I don't think we've been silent, but I am also starting to believe that we haven't been loud enough either.

[Two Wolves]

Mattra, I hear what you are saying and I too have thought that we don't seem to be bridging that gap between the Revolutionary past with todays problems. However, I can't help but believe that future Appleseed attendees will be coming to an Appleseed because they now "GET IT". All of the things in the media now are IMO going to bolster our program and we should go quietly and diligently about our business. After all, if the gun control lobbiest get their way, Appleseed would be a thing of the past unless we were to modify it for bolt fed only. As Appleseeders, we have been trying to wake up Americans but now they are going to be shaken to their core beliefs by this administration. Hold on to your hat! Yours in liberty, Two Wolves

[mattra]

We just might need to start reaching out and sharing the message beyond the firing line. If we continue to only spread the word to attendees, the rest of the world will continue to go on. One thing the hard left gun grabbers are very good at are organizing and spreading their message. Maybe we should take a play out of their book and start actively demonstrating so their message is not the only one that is heard.

[slim]

We're a non-profit and therefore barred from talking politics. Pretty simple.

And if you haven't noticed.... once you've 'seeded 'em, they get it.

[FiremanBob]

I agree with Slim. Besides, I wouldn't want to even give the appearance of crossing that line between history/civic involvement and modern politics.  We don't need to overstate the fact that arms confiscation was the issue that brought the Revolution to a flash point from the summer of '74 to April 19, '75, lest it seem that we are drawing too obviously a parallel that could be misinterpreted.

[SPQR]

The mohawk is right.  501(c)3 status prohibits it.

in other things, as a geographer, you may have to define "rock bottom".  Many countries have seen some pretty rough stuff and worked their way out of it.  Our definition of rock bottom may be different if we view it less globalistically. 

What may be as important as any effort made in Appleseed is to convince people to start thinking longterm about their posterity.  As we focus more on election cycles we seem to lose the long term focus of our forefathers.  That message we can make without politics and that message should be punctuated at every event.

[CiviSoldier]

With recent events and the obvious spike in sales, it's time to start taking the opportunity with newly appointed Rifle owners and inviting them to an event.  I already know two people who have felt the urge to purchase for fear of an upcoming AWB.  It's a good segway... Now that you own one, learn how to properly fire it!  This is an opportunity, lets grab and run with it....  What better way to grow the ranks...

God speed everyone and Merry Christmas...

[CiviSoldier]

I don't know about you, but I hear the lines at the gun counter at Walmart are pretty long due to NICS checks taking so long....  Maybe I'll have to stop by the local Wally World with my AS tee and start some conversations...   
V

[dragonfly]

Now that, my friend, is a fantastic idea 
D-fly Keeping the Faith

I don't know about you, but I hear the lines at the gun counter at Walmart are pretty long due to NICS checks taking so long....  Maybe I'll have to stop by the local Wally World with my AS tee and start some conversations...   
V

[Fred]

Why just might need to start reaching out and sharing the message beyond the firing line.

    They're called "Libraryseeds" (altho you don't need a library to do one).

Maybe we should...start actively demonstrating so their message is not the only one that is heard.

     Or you could put your energy into something really constructive, and help grow this program.

     I share your frustration - but the answer is "Appleseed!" (Technically, "more Appleseed!" )

[sgtrock]

We refrain from discussing modern day politics and let attendees connect the dots for themselves, but maybe it's time to bridge the gap and start combating some of the misinformation that is out there - like what is and what is not an assault weapon and other propaganda favored by the gun grabbers.

We have an audience at many Appleseeds that may or may not respond well to discussions of modern day politics, but pretty soon, we might not be having many more Appleseeds. Different ideas are being floated in the current administration from the classification of ARs to NFA status (like silencers and legally transferable machine guns) to executive orders or even regular legislation where the GOP might crumble like a house of cards and allow the Dems to pass legislation that won't have a sunset provision and will make the last AWB look like a walk in the park.

I know some people out there think that what we need is to hit rock bottom and rebuild from there, but I don't think those people are truly prepared for what rock bottom means. Also, can you name me one country that has hit rock bottom and successfully rebuilt itself - I can't think of any.

I originally posted this over at Rimfirecentral out of respect for the usual status quo here concerning staying within the frame work of the Revolutionary War, but since they explicitly prohibit political discussion I figured I would risk it and post here as well. 

It just might be time to be a little less subtle about the current state of affairs and a little more vocal about the rights that are currently being considered for the scrap heap.

Subtle,,, not me,,, But there are ways to get that message thru and still be 501c3 P.C. connection from the 18th century to now is not that hard to do to get people to see what is happening to our country, Passion for this country's survival is all it takes when you present your history,,, Don't slack on the history part of these shoots, it is more important than the rest of it, teaching shooting is easy, getting people to open their eyes and do something about it is another story,,, good post by the way,,,

Maybe it's time to take the organizational power of the Appleseed group and start protesting in mass. I don't think we've been silent, but I am also starting to believe that we haven't been loud enough either.

[PHenry]

Our cause is just, our methods unimpeachable.

Politics is not what causes our "ship" to sink any more than it is the MSM. What ails America is Americans. We, as a people have lost our way. What we do at events has a near magic way of awakening people to the path back to the ideals and traditions of the Founders and that is the only action that can save America. Whether they take the path or not is beyond our power.

You can certainly drag a horse to water, shove his head under and tickle his ribs, but in the end, the horse must decide to drink. No man is so blind as he who refuses to see.

Stay the course. Pass the message on, just as it was passed on to you, just as it was offered to me on a miserable day in January of 2007. Applesseds changes lives and does so without anything so silly, so frivolous or fickle as "politics".

Venues, promotion, staffing. More venues affords more events. More events bring more attendees, which results in more instructors, which seek out more venues, for more events for more instructors. Raw numbers. For every 100 attendees we might get a new IIT, for every 100 new IITs, we might get a few who make red hat. For every 100 red hats, we get so many that stay the course - that work 6+ events per year, year after year. Raw numbers.

A single sentence, taken out of context, could end Appleseeds, and for what? Politics? One day chicken, next day feather. Who cares?

The value of Liberty - they need to know what it cost in the beginning and how to maintain it. Leave the lies and fluff to the MSM and politicians. If they know that Liberty, that most Celestial Article, is more important than breathing, the rest will fall into place.

[CiviSoldier]

Well said!!!   

[yellowhousejake]

To simply tell them outright what to think is not helpful. I want them to connect the dots on their own. This country needs fewer mindless robots who simply parrot what they hear. They need to contemplate the value of their Liberty, the state of their soul, and make their own decision to act on that new knowledge.

It's not a case of winning folks to our camp or losing folks to "their camp", it's about building a better citizen, and that has to be done in one's own heart. We can only show them the way.
It's a tougher row to hoe, but the rewards are far greater because we gain citizens who can think on their own.

YHJ

[PHenry]

+1 

I have traveled a long road to get where I am tdoay. Appleseeds showed me the entrance to the path, but I found my own way. Where once I saw many things as important, now I see what is most important. Through the teachings of the Founders and sage counsel from fellow Appleseeders, I have learnt the value of Liberty and the true meaning of "self government".

How can any human repay both the dead and the living for something that is beyond price? I can only hope to pay it forward, by passing the gift of this incredible knowledge forward to others and ask them to do the same. One heart, one mind at a time.

I am self governed. I have no need of a master. That, to me, is the essence of Appleseed. That is my debt and my duty - to pass this "radical" notion forward, that my posterity may live Free as the Creator surely intended.

Shooters! Circle up! 

[mattra]

I don't think what we've done so far or what others have done is without merit, but it might not be enough. We pass the message on to shooters who come to events and to homeschool groups at libraryseeds - but what about the rest of populace? The left takes a page right out of Joesph Goebbels' own play book and by dominating the conversation with lies - the populace will inevitably believe them because it's the only message they hear.

Some might take great offense to this, but a question is often asked at events about how many people could you get to stand up for freedom and to answer the call. The question is asked in the context of what Paul Revere and others were able to do when they made that famous ride and sounded the alarm. Most Appleseeders think of themselves as willing to stand up and answer the call, but maybe truly answering the call involves more than promoting the program itself.

[TomM1Thumb]

Always remember that the Brown Bess was the assault Rifle of the Day!

I wish that We could get that Point across to the Current Gun Banning Crowd!

[oladcock]

Just as there were many "groups" (committees of safety, correspondence, Sons of Liberty, etc) back then, there are too today. All with similar missions possibly through different paths. Appleseed is a good one but not the only one. We choose which we give our time and effort, it was Appleseed for me. That doesn't mean I do "seeds" to the exculsion of other useful pursuits.

Not getting personal or pointing fingers but when was the last time one of us wrote letters to our law makers, at local, state, and federal levels? Help out at Church? Attended city council or county commission meetings where you've researched and spoke on a subject?? Developed relationships with those elected officials? Actively supported a candidate? We've had our own "powder alarms" right here in our time, who has answered the call? How does our personal Liberty resume look? Much of what we should be doing as individuals can not/should not be under the "Appleseed" banner. My personal prayer is for wisdom because if the Lord gives me strength, I'll need bail money! ...O.L.

[douglas34474]

mattra,

looks like you got the same response here that you got over at RFC. 

IMHO, you should bring AS complains here first, not RFC. 

[yellowhousejake]

Some might take great offense to this, but a question is often asked at events about how many people could you get to stand up for freedom and to answer the call. The question is asked in the context of what Paul Revere and others were able to do when they made that famous ride and sounded the alarm. Most Appleseeders think of themselves as willing to stand up and answer the call, but maybe truly answering the call involves more than promoting the program itself.

That is the other 28 days of Appleseed, welcome aboard. It's the job of every instructor to always be ready to present the message, to any group, anywhere. The goal of speaking at an event about seventh stepping is to get as many attendees to do the same. We cannot get the whole country to an Appleseed in order to change awaken their hearts and minds. We can get enough so that seventh stepping begins to take hold.

The goal is not to put a rifle into every American's hands, it is to put Liberty into every American's heart.

YHJ

[mattra]

If we join together and speak as a group instead of individuals, it would be a lot harder to ignore. When we all go our separate ways and speak out independently - we are easily ignored.

[NHale]

Gonna have to agree with Fred on this one. Grow the program. I'm still amazed at how many folks never heard of Appleseed. Keep the elevator speech memorized and ready to pass along. Invite friends and strangers alike. Be wary of those that invite you to step over the line in photo ops tailor made for the gun control crowd. Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

[pikid89]

I agree with mattra on this one.  I 7th step all the time but I still feel like just appleseeding is not going to save us from being legislated out of existence in short order.  After looking at the rough draft of the AWB, id have to say that 99% of the guns that show up to the firing line would be considered assault weapons. 

I am the president of a student club at UF that promotes the legalization of concealed carry on university campuses and in my experiences in protesting with them, I am shocked at the amount of misinformation about gun rights and laws that has pervaded our society, primarily through the MSM and liberal anti gun agendas. 

Getting more and more people out to appleseeds will assuredly open more people up to loving liberty in the long term, but that does not in anyway change the FACT that our gun rights are being assaulted right now!

  Fred,  As the leader of a great organization whose very existence depends on the fact that we can own and use guns, I am surprised to see that in your opinion, that doing other things other than 7th stepping to save our gun rights and the 2nd Amendment, is a waste of time and energy. 

[jmdavis]

Do your best. That is all that anyone can ask of you. But I have to agree with oladcock. If things are going to change it is going to require involvement in a number of different organization. On the firearms side we have NRA, GOA, JPFO, the various state rifle associations, the various concealed carry organizations. A number of Appleseeders are involved with these and that is good.

But you can also be involved at your local range. You can work with kids (that's where the future really lies). There are many things out there that all can make a difference. Do them.

[PHenry]

Looks like I'm the odd man out here. While I once maintained a strong presence in several orgs, as well as local and national politics, I have, for all intents and purposes,  dumped them all in favor of more Appleseeding. I will admit to a loss of faith. Faith in the very concept of government and the dangerous superstition that affords it the "authority" to rule. I put down the "kool aid" about two years ago, thanks to Appleseeds and the people and heritage it brought me to.

What ails this nation has nothing to do with politics, or legislation, or our elected employees (AKA: rulers). Here's the terrible truth IMHO: If we purged Congress today, from top to bottom, and replaced every member with an Appleseeder, in a very short time, it would be right back to where it is today - right now - totally corrupt and drunk on its own power and importance. You see my esteems colleagues, we get exactly the government that we deserve.

Self reliance, frugality, self-government, publik virtue, and marksmanship - these are the foundation upon which Liberty must be constructed. Failure to embrace, practice, apply and maintain these simple, but profound traditions is what brings us to where we are today and only a return to these traditions can save us. Embrace the horror folks. Accept our fate. Our government is run amuck, only because the People have done same. Most Americans want a master, need a master, and a master they will have.   

What set our ancestors apart from our contemporaries, was not the system of government they devised, nor how they applied their politics. It was their love of Liberty and their burning desire to live free of the oppressive rule of tyrants. Today, most would gladly give up the most essential of Freedoms for " for a few "glass beads". We are become sheep. We beg for tyranny. in our hearts, in our minds and in our actions.

Only when a preponderance of Americans realize that death is superior to life in a cage, can we as a people, ever hope to remain free. Voting has lost its charm for me, as I know in my heart, it makes so little difference. I no longer admonish students to call their Congressmen at events, because it would be utterly disingenuous. Instead, I ask them, near beg them to spread the word of Appleseeds and to get others to attend, so that they can be exposed to the "virus" of Liberty through the story of April 19th, 1775, and to the self reliance that only skill at marksmanship can offer.

For me, Appleseeds is the best medicine for what ails us, for no man, woman, child, or beast can be expected to cherish and protect what it does not value.
In Liberty,
PHenry

[yellowhousejake]

You ain't alone Phenry. The problem will be solved only when Liberty runs deep in the hearts and minds of the American citizen once again. It is a difficult concept for many to grasp due to it's simplicity.

YHJ

[Lakevillian]

I agree, the men that fought against the British were enough of a common mind set to bring about the formation of this nation.  Currently we live in a nation that has a large percentage of mind set intent to dissolve all of that.  I do not know what will come of this current set of affairs, but my hope for a bright future is increasing because I have seen that all happens for a reason.  Iron is tempered in a fire, but when you are in the fire you don't seem to remember why you are there, to become stronger.  Endeavor to objectively look at what is happening, and not react until it is proper.  Silent observation has a power of it's own.

[mattra]

Sometimes you can silently observe for too long - ask the Jews that were living in Germany during the 30s and 40s (if you can find any that escaped and who are still alive).

[mattra]

PHenry, I mostly agree with you and I share your cynicism - however, if we all just sit back and do nothing and don't participate in the current political process (acknowledging that much of it is a farce), what good is that? The left would love it if we sat home on election days and didn't vote. They would love it, and are loving it, that we aren't protesting at all. The way I see it, we have a three options - do nothing, engage in the political process, (your imaginations can fill in this). For me, the only option is to engage in the political process in hopes that it works, or at least some what works.

[Transform]

Voting has lost its charm for me, as I know in my heart, it makes so little difference.

I don't vote because I think it will make a difference, I vote to honor those who died for my right to vote.
The advantage of this approach is that I get to vote strategically, to vote my hopes instead of my fears.

I don't think you're the odd man out, lots of folks have lost their faith, but it's one's actions that count most.
Frankly, "dumping them all in favor of more Appleseeding" doesn't quite sound like a loss of faith to me.
Rather, it sounds more like a show of faith in "Self reliance, frugality, self-government, publik virtue, and
marksmanship" which are indeed "the foundations upon which Liberty must be [re-]constructed".

(A true loss of faith can be easily identified by the deepening indentations in one's couch cushions.)