Why we fight...

[V]

People often ask me at Appleseeds, "Whats it like in England?"

Usually they don't believe the answers. Especially when I tell them you can't even use air rifles for under 18s so don't think you could do Appleseeds for kids with BB guns if it all came crashing down.

I'm not sure why I'm posting this as its difficult to decide what is more stupid and upsetting: the judge, the law, the attitude exhibited in the comments.

But I do know this.

If the lack of enthusiasm for the cause which seems to have overtaken us recently, if all this infighting, all these petty squabbles, continues you will wake up and find that this in an article in your local paper.

I know who, what and why I am fighting.

How about you?

[didactic]

I'm fighting to spread the idea that Americans can and should participate and take control of their own communities and nation.

And learning how to shoot better is a good thing, too.

So I'm ignoring the infighting within the Project, as much as possible.  I expect it'll subside.  But the mission will persist.

And I'm still working as many shoots as I can, which isn't nearly as many as I'd like.  But as Burke said,  "... because he could only do a little."

[Old Dog]

I don't know if the spring of 2007 was the first one or not.  I got here during the fall of 2006.

In my opinion some good folks (they worked Appleseeds, they always treated me decent, etc) left either on their own, or not.  Any time folks leave there will be mixed opinions not only on the folks leaving but why they left.  Its human nature that some of us like and get along with folks that others of us don't like and don't like to work with.  That's the way it is.  No surprise the same feelings are here this time (or the next time).

Also, in my opinion, the group survived the spring 2007 in-fighting and got larger and stronger afterwards.  The folks with the different view of the purpose of Appleseed and how to get there were mostly gone (or just gone quiet).  As the group grew more folks joined ( put the smiley here because more folks = growth but there's more to this than just more folks) and as the group grew larger it was only natural that there would be a growing number of folks with opposing viewpoints once again.  At some number of people we would once again reach a point where the folks with different views would attempt to sway the larger group that had remained after the spring 2007 split.

Sometimes folks (some folks might be a better way of putting it) are more open with their beliefs and their attempts to change the direction of the group.  Some folks are not.  They speak/act the way the majority of the group finds correct/comfortable when with the majority but manage to find/identify folks who feel the same way they do and they join together and work towards what they see is the "right" direction to take - but they do it behind the scenes.  They do it quietly.  They do it with the intent of growing their groups' size/influence to the point they feel they can force a change on the larger group of members.

I flat out hate the BS and politics (that's the most polite way I know to describe what these folks do) that goes with folks trying to maneuver their way to the top and take over.  The best outcome happened both times.  The smaller groups with opposing views broke away and started something they wanted.  The success/failure of those groups is on the shoulder of those groups and the people who wanted things their way.

Also, please realize that not everyone who leaves is taking the side of the smaller group that is attempting to bring about change.  Sometimes folks leave because they become so disillusioned with the infighting that they believe they've made a mistake and the larger group isn't what they thought it was and they feel they can't be a part of it any longer.  When we (we being the ones who stay) allow ourselves to say and do things that turn those good folks "off" and they leave we've failed in a way.  We not only lost the folks who wanted to be different we lost some folks who were on our side and trying to do the right thing.  They just got so disgusted with the language (name calling, threats, reactions of management, etc.) that they feel they must have been wrong about how good the work of the group is.

This isn't pointed at anyone in particular.  Just a bit of history (welcome or not, needed or not, but hopefully helpful to those who wonder what goes on here at times) that is my opinion based on a few years around the forum.

[RangeRat]

I'm fighting the general apathy that HOPE is an effective way to change things....  There can be much HOPING but without DOING, nothing's going to happen.  It's going to take a lot of hard work and sacrifice by many (and I don't just mean AS) to get this country back on track and heading in the right direction.  There are many good folks out there; it's our job to reach them and give them the "nudge".   Our local group has had its ups and downs but we keep forging ahead.

While there are some who believe that giving less than 100% doesn't count for much, I for one am glad for every bit that each of us gives to the program.  I'd rather have a solid 25% I can count on than someone preaching 90% who always seems to leave behind that 10% the program really needed.  We each have to live with our level of contribution and I find that I usually can't answer "Have I done all I can today" in the affirmative.  But I'm working on it..

Energy can be expended in a positive, productive fashion or just used.  It's our choice..  Make the right one.

RR

[Cooper]

I am recovering from many pulls and twists just now, trying to maximize gleaner apple picking by the truly poor and the Amish, trying to fully comprehend the appointment of an IL SB as RC for the Great Plains, and cooking a chicken in a Louisiana, South Central LA, Minnesota manner...

[V]

Did everyone miss that the word "this" was a hyperlink.... is this not visible because of the stoopid default style sheets for the forum since the update....
The quote includes the link explicitly.... I forget that I use a non-standard style (the silver theme settable in your profile) so that the forum color/style indications are visible in my browser....

Cheers
Phil
And thanks to those who PM'd me asking if there was supposed to be a link in this post.... there is and was....
/rant

People often ask me at Appleseeds, "Whats it like in England?"

Usually they don't believe the answers. Especially when I tell them you can't even use air rifles for under 18s so don't think you could do Appleseeds for kids with BB guns if it all came crashing down.

I'm not sure why I'm posting http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2058183/Antique-firearms-collector-140-guns-jailed-years-owning-air-rifles-licence.html as its difficult to decide what is more stupid and upsetting: the judge, the law, the attitude exhibited in the comments.

But I do know this.

If the lack of enthusiasm for the cause which seems to have overtaken us recently, if all this infighting, all these petty squabbles, continues you will wake up and find that this in an article in your local paper.

I know who, what and why I am fighting.

How about you?

[voortrekker]

Did everyone miss that the word "this" was a hyperlink.... is this not visible because of the stoopid default style sheets for the forum since the update....
The quote includes the link explicitly.... I forget that I use a non-standard style (the silver theme settable in your profile) so that the forum color/style indications are visible in my browser....

Cheers
Phil
And thanks to those who PM'd me asking if there was supposed to be a link in this post.... there is and was....
/rant

People often ask me at Appleseeds, "Whats it like in England?"

Usually they don't believe the answers. Especially when I tell them you can't even use air rifles for under 18s so don't think you could do Appleseeds for kids with BB guns if it all came crashing down.

I'm not sure why I'm posting http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2058183/Antique-firearms-collector-140-guns-jailed-years-owning-air-rifles-licence.html as its difficult to decide what is more stupid and upsetting: the judge, the law, the attitude exhibited in the comments.

But I do know this.

If the lack of enthusiasm for the cause which seems to have overtaken us recently, if all this infighting, all these petty squabbles, continues you will wake up and find that this in an article in your local paper.

I know who, what and why I am fighting.

How about you?

Phil,

First, thank you for the original post.

I sent the article to which you linked, some of your words and mine on a mass email journey.

The link in your first, post, I was barely able to make it out, but fortunately I captured it.  Could "this" not have been in bright red or some other contrasting color to indicate, hit this link towards original article?

Thanks again Phil, especially, with your experience on the other side of the pond, I always enjoy and learn from your personal insights.

Also, THANK YOU, for your time and knowledge, given selflessly, on the firing lines in California.


Brett

[Kosciusko]

That is one depressing article.  Even more so when you realize the hoplophobes in this country dream of enacting restrictions such as that here. 

I am reminded of the video of Tony Blair  where he spoke of enacting firearms legislation to "break the gun culture",  not to make people safer.

It can happen here, it  has happened just about everywhere else.

Now, back to the mission, so it    _doesn't_     happen here.

[NorCal22Gal]

I just posted it on my facebook....I sure hope that's not where we are headed.....  I "fight" so we don't end up there. so we aren't falling asleep and loosing the liberties that those men and women fought for....

Thanks V.

Laurie

[POP]

Yeah, Laurie, It can happen here. 
The price of Liberty is Eternal Vigilance.

From PHil's article:
This guy in England got convicted of having 4 illegal BB guns, 3 of which were modified to have an overlimit velocity.    "The police raid last December also uncovered what was described as an "air rifle kit" involving magazines, pellets and compression springs."    "Blennerhassett admitted possessing one air rifle without a certificate, which was just over the permitted velocity limit, and was convicted by a jury of illegally possessing three others which had been modified, and two charges of possessing a bullet."

And, I posted on my FB page several hours ago. 

[Francis Marion]

Disarmament in Briton?  Unthinkable, once:

"...Britons never-never-never shall be slaves!"

Insulted, Lady Liberty moved on.  She'll never waste time on people who despise her. 

She deserves our best, all the time.  Or we'll lose what they lost. 

Profit from this dreadful example: make good use of your time. 

[Johnnyappleseed]

Thanx for the reminder V

On winning --does anyone have the "art of war " quote ? know yourself - know your enemy - or something ?

Official state dept document . signed JFK 1961

" The manufacture of armaments would be prohibited except for those of agreed types and quantities to be used by the XXpeace force and those required to maintain internal order . ALL other armements would be destroyed or converted to peaceful purposes."

hummmppffffffffffff

[George Hacker]

Thanx for the reminder V

On winning --does anyone have the "art of war " quote ? know yourself - know your enemy - or something ?

Official state dept document . signed JFK 1961

" The manufacture of armaments would be prohibited except for those of agreed types and quantities to be used by the XXpeace force and those required to maintain internal order . ALL other armements would be destroyed or converted to peaceful purposes."

hummmppffffffffffff

"So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss." - Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[Johnnyappleseed]

Shadowman Thanx for your quick responce and your excellent research 

With that quote in mind , how many of us know what it takes to win according to what was written in "The art of war"

Is it also written that the best way of winning a war is w/o firing a shot ?
That the adversary is beaten defore it starts or something ?

[Roland]

"Sometimes, the best way to win is not to fight."- Sun Tzu

If I remember correctly, this was said not in the regards of surrendering, but in making your "enemy" agree with your ways of thinking.

Seems to ft pretty well with the mission to me.

Roland