Techres and I had this idea, see?

[SPQR]

I need help, and lots of it. 

Indiana has a problem.  We need to get people to shoots at Riley.  Techres and I had this idea for this upcoming shoot.  We were going to strategically break down target groups and attack them with our promotions efforts in a specific attempt to build interest in this weekend's Riley shoot.  Guess what happened?  Next to nothing.  Tech unleashed a highly sophisticated attack on local media and networked groups to push people into Riley.  I was laughed out of the room by one ROTC commander, laughed off the phone by another, and simply ignored by a third.  I am not military, how could I possibly have anything to offer their training efforts?  The local sheriff's department scoffed at me because I don't have other people buy my guns for me (okay, that one isn't true, they just don't have enough personnel to free anyone up on the weekend).

Our efforts gained very little.  Just 3 pre-regs. 

So the success of this shoot comes down to what the success of a shoot always comes down to, the ability of Appleseed volunteers to drag people to shoots.  Fred calls it "Low-teching".  The idea is that you find someone in your life and drag them to a shoot.  Drag em kickin.  Drag em screamin.  Drag em by their hair (no, don't do that, its a little too cavemaney for me).  Drag em by their belt loops. 

Frankly, we have to save this range.  It is a great range.  I went to my first seed there.  I Riflemaned there.  Lots of people can say that.  The real problem is that I don't live there, and neither does techres.  Not only that, but I am not very well liked.  After a couple years on the trail I have brought just about all my friends to Seeds.  One thing Indiana has, though, is a wealth of new folks coming into the program.  One thing you will find out soon enough is that we are responsible for our own successes.  We have to get people to shoots.  We  need to fill Riley because it costs us money to reserve the range, and we are going to have to make a decision at some point to keep it up or let it go.  I, for one, do not like to sound a retreat.  I like to keep on pluggin.  I don't like to back up unless I am drawing someone into a trap and this, my friends, is no trap.  This is the truth.  We may have to let go of this range if we can't put people on it, and that is a problem WE CAN FIX. 

I remember that spring day in 09 like it was yesterday.  TBE and I had no idea what we were getting into.  We even had a code worked out in case Appleseed didn't pass the sniff test.  If somebody said the word we would just grab our gear and leave.  As it turned out, we hardly said anything to each other at all.  Shoots were different then.  They were mostly dudes, mostly experienced, and more serious.  It was still a transformative experience, it was still that great feeling, that sense of discovery and the sensation that when you look up things seem to be far closer to you than they have ever been before.  There were no singing instructors, no ruggedly handsome and roguishly charming young men to set the tone.  Just a couple years later the shoots feel very different, but just like now, there was magic on that day.  On that day there were some instructors who now we look to as wizened veterans.  Guys like Techres, DaveD, and Bill3 were but mere orange hats and Don Hawkhavn, Capo di tutti capi, was holding the state together with his fingernails.  Now these jokers ask me for help on things.  We owe debts to their instruction.  It isn't gratitude to them that we owe, but guidance to the next guy.  Still, we have to get that next guy to the shoot.  So...LETS GO GET THEM.  Then when I dump my work on you, you can ask them to help. 

[dragonfly]

Indiana has singing instructor's, if I didn't already have plans I know where I would be. The only thing keeping me away is another Appleseed  http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=22617.0 Riley IN looks like a great place to be. Appleseed; its like a family picnic with shooting.

D-fly  Keeping the Faith 

[funfaler]

You had a good idea, but it appears that the application may be lacking (not an insult, by any means, just an observation).

The groups you mention have not traditionally been "interested" in Appleseed.   Partly because they are better than Appleseed, partly because they are simply too busy with "their stuff".   They can only be cracked by their own.

However, speak with some of the folks who helped in the wacky EMP program.   We saw 50% increases in some shoots, from homeschoolers and some other focused groups.

There is a wealth of information on this forum some place, on this effort.   But the fact is, Appleseed must be an outreach program, to many different areas.   It can not look to "gun minded" areas, those are both dried up and proven to be not interested in Appleseed.   

But hey, what do I know?   

The future of the program is not current gun owners, they have proven themselves pathetic when it comes to being active and actually "doing things" (ask the NRA).   The future is with other groups who have a tangent interest in firearms.   Homeschoolers, private schools, preppers, and other folks concerned about the future of the country (you could easily group the Tea Party here).   

Good luck

[techres]

You are preaching to the choir here FF.  The other 50% is the goal and we are making some strides there and have seen huge results in other areas of the state, just not in that corner which is odd.

Scuzzy is still driving the homeschoolers community and I personally send links for the homeschooler conventions to each and every state for local teams to work on.  The Library seeds are getting under way in Indiana and elsewhere and the two ATM has done have gathered more attendees than Riley has all year. 

Youth, women, non-gun owners are flooding into Bedford and other IN ranges, but Riley is dead.

It is frustrating to say the least and we have not given up, but it is not a solved situation either by any means.

Glad to see you on the boards and I would welcome your help and ready to give you a ring if you have the time!  The EPT is not dead, but Scuzzy can use all the help we can get...

You had a good idea, but it appears that the application may be lacking (not an insult, by any means, just an observation).

The groups you mention have not traditionally been "interested" in Appleseed.   Partly because they are better than Appleseed, partly because they are simply too busy with "their stuff".   They can only be cracked by their own.

However, speak with some of the folks who helped in the wacky EMP program.   We saw 50% increases in some shoots, from homeschoolers and some other focused groups.

There is a wealth of information on this forum some place, on this effort.   But the fact is, Appleseed must be an outreach program, to many different areas.   It can not look to "gun minded" areas, those are both dried up and proven to be not interested in Appleseed.   

But hey, what do I know?   

The future of the program is not current gun owners, they have proven themselves pathetic when it comes to being active and actually "doing things" (ask the NRA).   The future is with other groups who have a tangent interest in firearms.   Homeschoolers, private schools, preppers, and other folks concerned about the future of the country (you could easily group the Tea Party here).   

Good luck

[SPQR]

Yeah.  Techres and I are champions of the "We can win this thing by reaching to everyone" message but this was a specific problem at a specific range we were trying to address with our plan.  We are trying to find the person that is the "IN" in that community as neither of us lives there.  Oddly, I have received four PMs from people that have lived in or around the Terre Haute area since I posted this and they all lament a variety of things about the area in terms of getting people to a seed.  Oddly, none of those people still live there which speaks to part of our problem.  People don't stay around there and we haven't won over anybody that does.  One thing tech and I talked about was how do we find Riley's chilidog or DaveD, the guy who looks at a range and says, "This one is mine, I am going to make Appleseed a success here."  When I went to my first seed there only a couple of folks were from the area, a surprising number came from Bloomington, which is where tech and I lived and was almost two hours away.  It was the same story at my second seed there.

Now Indiana is in a weird place where the success of our other ranges prevents Riley from drawing people from the distances it used to.  Why would some knucklehead like me go to Riley to shoot when I could go to Bedford or West Baden?  It boils down to finding someone local who buys in and wants to see the program succeed there and that was the main thrust of tech's side of the efforts.  I don't want to give up on this range and this area.

[gr8horses2003]

SPQR and Techres,
One suggestion for you, but first let me say that I am a newbie and not a rifleman...yet.  My experience is that Appleseed doesn't do a very good job of follow-up.  For many, like me, becoming a rifleman is a process.  After a shoot it would be nice if there was some follow up by the "staff".  If you stay connected, you will find that there are still un-met expectations and needs by the group.  This is "internal" marketing and if you use it, I don't think you'll have any trouble keeping your range.

I see Appleseed as at least a three step process: the initial encounter, the process of becoming a rifleman, and the continuing education process.  So, the range becomes the focus of a bunch of activities.  As you have discovered, it is the continuing involvement of people with good experiences that keeps new people coming.  Marketing data says about 18 people for each good experience, but Appleseed has to do its part...you have to follow-up personally with each person that attends and stay connected.  You'll be surprised how this "mining" activity will pay off.

MHO   

[techres]

SPQR and Techres,
One suggestion for you, but first let me say that I am a newbie and not a rifleman...yet.  My experience is that Appleseed doesn't do a very good job of follow-up.  For many, like me, becoming a rifleman is a process.  After a shoot it would be nice if there was some follow up by the "staff".  If you stay connected, you will find that there are still un-met expectations and needs by the group.  This is "internal" marketing and if you use it, I don't think you'll have any trouble keeping your range.

I see Appleseed as at least a three step process: the initial encounter, the process of becoming a rifleman, and the continuing education process.  So, the range becomes the focus of a bunch of activities.  As you have discovered, it is the continuing involvement of people with good experiences that keeps new people coming.  Marketing data says about 18 people for each good experience, but Appleseed has to do its part...you have to follow-up personally with each person that attends and stay connected.  You'll be surprised how this "mining" activity will pay off.

MHO 

You are 100% right!  We do well up to 80% and falter up to 100% and fail at the 110% which is followup.  We are just now working on facebook as a way to get to where we need to be with constant contact, but the mining is where we are still very much lagging.

Now, I hate to do this, but you sound like someone who really understands both need and performance towards a goal.  Any way we can get you working on helping to solve the followup contact work?

We could use your help if you can give it!

[KYWindage]

Any thoughts on how to better use this FaceBook thingy?  I'm open to all suggestions, Let's get'em coming!

[kate]

I'm on the facebook page for Indiana Appleseed and I think that we should make the page open to the public and announce the shoots and dates of library appleseeds on the page. It would also help if we got a lot more people in Indy to join the page and it would probably help to post a call out for the Riley shoot.

I don't know that much about it, this is from a shooter point of view

-kate

[SPQR]

Sounds good.  Could you also do a facebook search for historical societies, scouts, 4-H clubs etc. in the Vanderburg County area and see if we can promo Evansville at the same time?

[George Hacker]

I'm on the facebook page for Indiana Appleseed and I think that we should make the page open to the public and announce the shoots and dates of library appleseeds on the page. It would also help if we got a lot more people in Indy to join the page and it would probably help to post a call out for the Riley shoot.

I don't know that much about it, this is from a shooter point of view

I am working with Western Rose and TruTenacity on the Northwest Region Project Appleseed facebook page.  We are experimenting and doing some things to encourage more participation by shooters and their non-Appleseed friends.  You can see what we are currently doing by going here:  https://www.facebook.com/#!/NorthwestRegionProjectAppleseed

First, facebook doesn't work by itself.  The page requires regular care and feeding.  We post photo albums of the best of breed photos from all shoots in our region with a link to the AAR and other picassa albums.  We also post reminders (with links) to upcoming shoots.  We also post questions from time to time to get our audience to interact with the page.  This kind of effort keeps WR, TT, and myself coordinating with each other and a little busy.

Second, we have been telling shooters at the end of the day at shoots how to use our facebook page as a tool for seventh stepping.  We give them the address of the page and tell them to check it out.  If they want to stay informed about AS events, then they should "Like" our page and they will get updates.  They are encouraged to interact with parts of the page that interests them.  If they see an article or picture that they like, then they should "Like" that particular topic.  If they love the topic and want their friends to know about it, then they should "Share" it and it will appear on their wall.  They can also post comments and do other things on the page without special permissions or AS approval.  Shooters need to be plugged into FB at the shoots and told how to use it to show their friends what a great time they had at Appleseed.

Also, we try to have the photo albums posted Monday (Tuesday at the latest) after the shoot so the shooters will have something to interact with right away.  We are continuing to learn as we experiment with our page, but so far so good.  (We also have another FB page that regularly reposts our articles.  )

Western Rose or TruTenacity - Anything else you care to add?

- ShadowMan

[gr8horses2003]

Techres,
I'm sorry, I can't help you directly...I don't live anywhere near IN.  But I would be happy to advise you on the follow-up contact system.  It has been used in a non-Appleseed setting for years with mega success.  But it does require personal follow-up by some member of "the staff".  You can contact me directly if you're interested.

Harry

[DaveD]

As I've read this post I realized that I have been missing  that ever important item "Followup".

For each of my shoots have been sending Western Rose a welcome letter which she sends out to all pre-registered shooters for me.  I will from now on send a followup letter - thanking them for coming, giving link to the AAR, asking for comments, giving info on other shoots in the area that they might be interested in, etc.

In this particular case, my range is close to Riley so perhaps can encourage attendance there, although I don't seem to get shooters from the Riley area.

[Mudcat]

I believe to use social media like Facebook we need to make a point to welcome the shooters to become FB friends with us. To do this we must have a presence on FB. If we become friends with even half of the shooters at an event this can possibly put our AAR and pictures in the face of 400 - 500 people even more. Be cause what we share with them or they share with other shooters will be shown to the other friends that they have.
This is why we need to make sure pictures like Kate running back from the target line holding her redcoat target get put on all of our FB walls. A picture like that ( in focus, smile, young lady obviously having a great time) will make it to several hundred if not thousands of peoples wall by them sharing them.

I will from now on be asking for my shooters to become FB friends with me and the other instructors including IITs  if they so wish. It makes it easier for them to follow up and say thanks or "hey I tagged you in a picture"than it is on a forum board. A lot of shooters come to read but do not register here and post on the AAR. However if they are replying to the SB or another instructor or even shooter on FB they know that person and have been through a personal experience with them. Makes it much easier to talk to them. plus when we post that we are attending another shoot at X location and date it puts that in front of them as well. So they are more apt to return if they know when the dates are and we are talking it up.

I have tried to post pictures and videos of the shoot to FB while the shoot was going on but the only shoot where I have had enough time to do so I did not have service.   But doing this can show people what it is all about and reignite the fire in those that have been wanting to return for another shoot.

The Indiana Appleseed page is good too but has some of the same drawbacks of not personal enough and the size of the statewide page may keep shyer people from posting when they might on their instructors or SB page because they actually know them.

[George Hacker]

Great points, Mudcat!  This use of social media also allows us to follow up without requiring the shoot boss and Western Rose's involvement.

Many of the folks who are participating the most on our regional FB page are also FB friends of one or more instructors/IITs.  I doubt that is a coincidence and thank you for pointing that out.

- ShadowMan

[DaveD]

Okay, you guy's are going to force    me to get on FB.  I'm just doing good to keep up with this forum   

[TruTenacity]

AS's homepage now has a "Find us on Facebook" link.  That links you to a list of FB pages within each region.  There are a few links that don't work which scuzzy will fix for us.

In one week we received 8 hits on our FB page which came directly from AS's homepage.  As an administrator there are all kinds of stats available to see the activity of the FB page so we can determine what types of posts get the most hits and shares.  The Northwest decided to remain as a region rather than have individual state pages.  It makes us look bigger and people can see the AS activity in neighboring states.

ShadowMan, thanks for being the horse that drives the NW Region FB page.  You've done a great job keeping us on task.

[KYWindage]

I'm on the facebook page for Indiana Appleseed and I think that we should make the page open to the public and announce the shoots and dates of library appleseeds on the page. It would also help if we got a lot more people in Indy to join the page and it would probably help to post a call out for the Riley shoot.

I don't know that much about it, this is from a shooter point of view

-kate

Lol, we do that already... 
The Northwest has an excellent page(*taking notes*) I may aquire some new things from there.
Observations/thoughts:
The Indiana Appleseed page is a Group whereas the Northwest Appleseed has it's own Page.
What would be good key words that we could add that would increase our chances of getting a hit on search engines....
How many us are 7th Stepping with Facebook?
How many people even know that we have an Indiana Appleseed Group?

[Western Rose]

One good reason to have a page is that you can "favorite" other pages. For example, the Northwest page has been able to "favorite" other Appleseed pages which makes each more visible. Also, as a page, you can comment on other page's comments, links, etc.

As far as key words, I think having "Project Appleseed" in the title helps.

The people on the Northwest page seem to use it quite often. Not just the instructors, attendees as well. Also, the people can tag themselves in the pictures (in the photo albums) and then that will show up on their walls as well. Quick question, can groups have photo albums?

We've started to tell the shooters that we have a facebook page (and what it is) at the beginning of the shoot and at the end, sometimes during the shoot as well.

If this is making this topic get off track, I'd be happy to message with any of you about this along with Shadowman.

I have to admit, until Shadowman came along and was willing to help with the facebook page, it was pretty dead, posted on sporadically... not much use. He's given it the direction that we needed. Thank you!!!

[George Hacker]

We are still experimenting and learning with the NW Regional facebook page.  Maintaining the page requires a team effort.  TruT, Western Rose, Evenstar and I work together to keep it up and to post things in a timely manner.  We also share ideas about things we would like to try.  So there is strength in numbers.

But ultimately the page would not be very successful without support from the field.  If the instructors and shoot bosses don't inform AS participants the page exists (and how to interact with it and use it to share their AS experience with their friends) then we wouldn't get much traction.

Having instructors post comments and interact with the page is very valuable.  Western Rose did something that got folks interacting with the page.  As a page administrator she asked the following question: "How was your weekend? If you went to an Appleseed, what was the highlight of the event that made your weekend special?"  A handful of people responded pretty quickly, but that single question has been viewed by almost 1,000 facebook users.

Our facebook page is still a work in progress.  We will be happy to share with others as we find out what works (and what doesn't), but it is definitely a team effort.

- ShadowMan

[SPQR]

These are all good things.  I support it 110%.  Now we gotta get folks to the Riley shoot this weekend.  What is the fix for that?

(crickets)

Drag em.  I got one.  Anybody else?

[KYWindage]

(cough cough) Your idea was not just for Riley, although that was you illustration, but overall how to get shooters to the line by making it a festive/enjoyable atmosphere. Right?

Facebook is a growing treasure trove of ways to get the word out and for people to get a visual of what happens.

Although I have placed a flyer in almost every gun shop south of I-64 and around the Louisville Metro Area, I know that I have not done my 100% best to get them to a line. I'm in agreement that word of mouth to friends/ family is the best way to fill the lines. They trust and like you enough to get off the couch. But, unless they are actively searching, most people will not attend. With FB we can present Appleseed to them from the comforts of their home when they are losing themselves in social media. How many of you remember someone from your old high school that would love Appleseed? 4-H?
The only excuse that we have now is laziness and we know that that really isn't an excuse.

[Eddie]

Since getting the e-mail on this from SPQR I have:
-invited the local sheriff's department
-invited our town marshall, CO and everyone else in local law enforcement that I know personally
-invited some people from the Vigo County prosecutor's office
-contacted a local FBI Agent who at least agreed to forward my e-mail to his co-workers
-posted two different invites on INS
-posted an invite on Hoosier Topics
-handed out flyers to two guys who were painting in my building when I overheard them talking about shooting

To date I have exactly one tentative yes from a THPD guy who says he will bring his son to the Sunday portion of the Riley shoot and there are still only 3 preregistered shooters (one of whom is my son).

I'm not giving up.  As was said above, there is an institutional mentality that LEO's cannot learn from anyone other than another LEO.  All we need is to get one guy hooked to break through that barrier. 

[George Hacker]

I'm not giving up.  As was said above, there is an institutional mentality that LEO's cannot learn from anyone other than another LEO.  All we need is to get one guy hooked to break through that barrier.

Also consider approaching firefighters.  Many of them like to shoot and they usually have a friendly competition going with their police dept. counterparts.  If the firemen go shooting with their police officer friends and start outshooting them, that will get LEOs attention.

- ShadowMan

[Western Rose]

To date I have exactly one tentative yes from a THPD guy who says he will bring his son to the Sunday portion of the Riley shoot and there are still only 3 preregistered shooters (one of whom is my son).

There are 7 preregistered shooters right now according to eventbrite.

[RBKL]

I have a maybe from 2-3 additional shootser.  They have some family issues in OH and may need to travel this weekend.  They really want to come if possible.  They will let me know tonight.   

Final hook for them:  I sent them a link to the Fort Drum, NY AAR.

I have not caught up to the other prospect yet today.

RBKL

[techres]

Ok, rounded up some loaners and am bringing a family member.

[Eddie]

I scrounged up one more shooter (non-LEO) who will sign up in the morning.

[POC]

I POUND my friends on FB with invites for the shoots, especially the ones at my range.  So far, -0-.  Some people are interested, until it comes right down to "giving up" an entire weekend......lots of excuses, not that I'm a stranger to those!

I don't know if I'm a friend to the Indiana FB page or not...will go investigate.....

[George Hacker]

I POUND my friends on FB with invites for the shoots, especially the ones at my range.  So far, -0-.  Some people are interested, until it comes right down to "giving up" an entire weekend......lots of excuses, not that I'm a stranger to those!

I don't know if I'm a friend to the Indiana FB page or not...will go investigate.....

Persist, POC.  Your efforts will not be in vain.

I just had a young friend and his younger sister come out to the Castle Rock shoot on Saturday only because of repeated Facebook invitations.  Both had a great time and the sister asked when the next one was (on FB) and is glowing to all her friends how cool it is for women to learn how to shoot (on FB).  She also asked me when the next shoot would be.  I hope to take her and some other friends out to the range with a few redcoat targets.

BTW - An approach I used to get the brother out was to throw down the gauntlet on FB.  I posted on his FB wall that I bet I could outshoot him (he is active military).  He started trash talking so I challenged him to let his targets do the talking for him.  After he pulled his first redcoat on Saturday I pulled my cleared one out from my shooting bag (freshly shot the previous weekend) and said I would sling up if he cleared his redcoat in the afternoon.  Sorry to say, but they had to leave just before the last AQT so he didn't shoot another one.

- ShadowMan