John Adams on HBO

[applesauce]

Hi all,
I just wanted to give you all a heads up. If you are able to, please take the chance to watche John Adams series that is now running on HBO. I saw all but the first half hour or so on Sunday night. I must say it seems to be a good review of history. If HBO put this out on dvd I will buy it. I know I will not be able to watch all episodes. I am curious if anyone else had the opportunity to see this show?

                                                                                     Applesauce

[Garand69]

One of the few times that I wish that I wasn't so cheep and actually had cable!!!

[SavageShootr]

This is now available on DVD. I was wondering if anyone who watched it has an opinion they wish to share.

Thanks.
~SS

[Johnnyappleseed]

Concerning the John Adams production by HBO. I had HBO back in the 90s + if HBO produces anything worthwhile or historically accurate it was probably by accident.
Maybe HBO has changed , if so I would  be delighted to re subsribe .
A sure way for HBO to gain respect would be for a documentary on the Appleseed program 
It is my recollection that HBO has been 100% ANTI RIGHTS 
Semper Fidelis
JA

[Nickle]

if HBO produces anything worthwhile or historically accurate it was probably by accident.

I think you'll find they got "Band of Brothers" right. Of course, they had the troops that were there as advisors, and even interviewed them.

I'll agree they can be "hit or miss", and I don't know, but don't much doubt they're anti-rights anti-freedom.

[funfaler]

COSTCO has the series a for $34, and they had a $10 off coupon, for $24.....the wife got it 

Just on episode one, so can't answer to content yet and my movie watching time has more  cartoons that history   so it might be a while to get to the end

[WECSOG]

I've seen the HBO special and I'm about 2/3rds through the book.

The series is really good but not great.  Some of HBO's poetic license is needed, such as the level of awe just after the vote for independence was passed, but also, at least so far, they've taken a few freedoms to "drama-up" the story and left out key pieces of Adam's life instead.  Such as they spent far too much time on his sickness in holland but left out the negotiations with British diplomats which led to the treaty of Paris, which Adams played a key role.  Nabby's marriage to the Colonel looks to be "drama up'd".

I'll report back more when I finish the book.

Too bad Adams only saw the aftermath of the battles of Lexington and Concord so the movie doesn't show any scenes from that day, but the battle of bunker hill seen from Abigail's perspective was impressive, but too short.

[PHenry]

Just finished a PBS doc on the Rev War. It was heavily slanted, but had a few nuggets in it.

Tonight I will re-watch the section that contains an excellent quote from a Hessian merc. It went something like this:

"The conditions these Americans are willing to suffer amazes me. Such conditions would send the finest German soldiers home. All of our generals would soon find themselves alone. What energy this idea of Liberty seems to give them. From this rabble rises men who would defy kings!"

It was a cold, statement of fact from a relatively impartial observer.

There were a few other good points, but only worth the Netflix rent - not worth owning.

[slim]

I'm kind of in the mindset now that anything, whether it's been "drama'd up" or not, relating to our nation's history is something that is worth taking the time to watch.

There's such a small amount of media out there on the Revolution and that time period that anything, especially a docu-drama like John Adams, is worth watching and talking about in order to pique the curiosity of those not familiar with that time period.

[PHenry]

I agree - even if it is not perfectly accurate - it still keeps some of the Tradition alive.

I have a friend that teaches the 3rd grade. Her principle told her specifically not to discuss the Constitution in her classroom, that it had no place in elementary school. I would imagine this attitude to be a symptom of a larger problem.

Such things serve as a reminder of the importance of Project Appleseeds. If we fail to maintain the ideals of the Founders, they will be lost forever. Once we loose them - we will surely loose our Liberty.

Also, maybe that drama'd up version will attract more viewers away from American Idol and it is hard for me to see that as a bad thing. 

[WECSOG]

I agree - even if it is not perfectly accurate - it still keeps some of the Tradition alive.

I have a friend that teaches the 3rd grade. Her principle told her specifically not to discuss the Constitution in her classroom, that it had no place in elementary school. I would imagine this attitude to be a symptom of a larger problem.

Such things serve as a reminder of the importance of Project Appleseeds. If we fail to maintain the ideals of the Founders, they will be lost forever. Once we loose them - we will surely loose our Liberty.

Also, maybe that drama'd up version will attract more viewers away from American Idol and it is hard for me to see that as a bad thing. 

I sincerely hope that your friend had a few choice words about the principles advice.  I'll keep my views about public school aside, however, my mother, sister and brother in law all work or have worked for the public school system and can attest that the last thing the schools are out to accomplish these days is to teach children how to think for themselves.  My mother, a grade school teacher, "retired" early due to the fact that she refused to teach the kids "outcome based education" OBE.  Contact me offline if you want to know more about what our kids are being "taught" in school today.

Oh, regarding the Adams series, I was merely giving a point of view from a purist perspective only.  I failed to mention that for HBO it was an amazing series that, better than anything today, give us a perspective on how our founding fathers thought, the rough times they endured, and the sacrifice we all take for granted.  With regards to other shows on TV today, which I avoid like the plague, the John Adams series was so far out of their league as to not even be funny, even in lieu of its minor "drama" short comings.

I only wish it was required watching and or reading in our schools today...

[PHenry]

WECSOG,

As to your comments on th series - I nevr figured diffrnt. As to the standard TV fair of today - it only serves as further evidence of the dire need for Appleseeds.

I have little time for TV anymore anyway, between promo work, dry-firing, instructing, and a little actual range time, oh and that exquisite little inconvenience of "earning a living" - I am a busy guy.

I haven't read a non-Rev War book in months. I did watch an action flick recently, but please - nobody tell Fred! 

PH

[SavageShootr]

Thank you all for your input, it looks like I will be using the Costco coupon. 
~SS

[slim]

I have a friend that teaches the 3rd grade. Her principle told her specifically not to discuss the Constitution in her classroom, that it had no place in elementary school. I would imagine this attitude to be a symptom of a larger problem.

Such things serve as a reminder of the importance of Project Appleseeds. If we fail to maintain the ideals of the Founders, they will be lost forever. Once we loose them - we will surely loose our Liberty.

I heard at some schools now they don't say the Pledge of Allegiance anymore. Apparently that has no place in schools either.

No Pledge, no Constitution, OBE..... soon we won't even want our Bill of Rights.


Has anyone ran it by their PTA if it would be OK to pass out Appleseed info at, say, show and tell?

[ItsanSKS]

After the recommendation to watch this series, I decided to check it out from the local library, and have found it to be fascinating.  I have always been a history geek, and would love it if there were more docu-drama's made about the revolutionary war period.  Ya'll wouldn't happen to know of any, would you?

I heard at some schools now they don't say the Pledge of Allegiance anymore. Apparently that has no place in schools either.

No Pledge, no Constitution, OBE..... soon we won't even want our Bill of Rights.

No, slim, we apparently don't need to teach our children about the history of our nation; how it was founded, what we were standing up for, or who the men and women were who continued the fight when all seemed lost.  In this age of 'no child left behind' our schools seem less the 'bastion of free thought' than liberal-minded concentration camps for kids. 

Such concepts as 'allegiance', 'civic duty', 'moral responsibility', and other mainstays of the American Way Of Life, have been left behind, to make room for more 'politically correct' lessons.  You are more likely to hear a diatribe against guns in the classroom than you are to hear a class students Pledging their allegiance to this nation. 

For those of you who have children in our public school system, I urge you to become active in your Parent/Teacher organizations.  You will find that many of the teachers in your community feel as you do, but also feel powerless to change the status quo.  They need your help in breaking down the barriers that have been built up in the last few decades, and they need it now.

[PHenry]

Our history is simply too "radical" to teach children - right?

And then there was Appleseeds!

So long as we remember the Founding generation - they are still alive!

Long live Liberty and long live Appleseeds!

[Johnnyappleseed]

We finished this HBO 3part series on John Adams.
While the music + period dress were done well ,I would not recomend it to any one who was not a serious history student.
The worst misinformation was concerning President + Mrs Washington. In part 3 the Adams moved into the White House and HBO led the viewer to believe the Washingtons ,not only lived in filth,but were thieves as well. (Stole all the furniture)   
What a clever way to malign one of the greatest men in the last 1000 years. Washington who ,refused to be King George of America.
Others may want to fill in the blanks left out here on The father of our country.
It sickens me to see some little puke working for anti rights media giant (HBO) portaying George + Martha as if they were like a recent presidential couple who did steal silver + did trash the white house . This band of fools even took the Ws off computers when they left.
Semper Fidelis
JA

[4bfox]

I've been watching the John Adams mini-series, too. As you say, most of it is pretty relevant...but they're WAY off on the Adams' moving into the White House. Washington picked the site and supervised construction of the White House, but DIED about a year before it's completion. John and Abigail Adams were the FIRST occupants of the White House.

I have NO IDEA where the writers dreamed up the trashed White House!

[lysander6]

I was underwhelmed but the period costumes were amusing.  I have no love lost for Adams since he was a Federalist.

There was a film made in 1984 with Barry Bostwick portraying George Washington that was fairly good.  I don't even know if it is out on DVD  It was based on Thomas Flexner's book on the man:

http://www.amazon.com/Washington-Indispensable-James-Thomas-Flexner/dp/0316286168/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271873083&sr=1-1  I recommend the book.

As far as the government schools not teaching the Constitution, I am shocked since it is a device to create a leviathan government.  The government supremacists who run the schools apparently have ignored their own history.  It is the Bill of Rights that they are primarily afraid of but the Constitution?  That is one of the mechanisms that has enabled the government we have today.  The adoption of the Constitution was a very close thing and almost set the fire of war again in the States because the Anti-Federalists had given fair warning of what a tyrannical document it was.  This is an unpopular notion but certainly open to discussion.  The glory of Appleseed is that the Declaration is our touchstone document so we don't have to even discuss the Constitution for those of us who prefer the Articles of Confederation as a superior mechanism.  And it just so happens that the AoC are far more germane to our topic in Appleseed because the Constitution was not even adopted until 1791 (it lost its only popular ballot for ratification in Rhode Island).

Read my essay here:  http://www.lewrockwell.com/buppert/buppert29.1.html

I will be speaking on this very topic at Freedom Fest in Vegas in July.

To quote the great Albert Jay Nock:

The Constitution looked fairly good on paper, but it was not a popular document; people were suspicious of it, and suspicious of the enabling legislation that was being erected upon it. There was some ground for this. The Constitution had been laid down under unacceptable auspices; its history had been that of a coup d'état.

It had been drafted, in the first place, by men representing special economic interests. Four-fifths of them were public creditors, one-third were land speculators, and one-fifth represented interests in shipping, manufacturing, and merchandising. Most of them were lawyers. Not one of them represented the interest of production - Vilescit origine tali.

In the second place, the old Articles of Confederation, to which the states had subscribed in good faith as a working agreement, made all due provision for their own amendment; and now these men had ignored these provisions, simply putting the Articles of Confederation in the wastebasket and bringing forth an entirely new document of their own devising.

Again, when the Constitution was promulgated, similar economic interests in the several states had laid hold of it and pushed it through to ratification in the state conventions as a minority measure, often - indeed, in the majority of cases - by methods that had obvious intent to defeat the popular will. Moreover, and most disturbing fact of all, the administration of government under the Constitution remained wholly in the hands of the men who had devised the document, or who had been leaders in the movement for ratification in the several states. The new president, Washington, had presided over the Constitutional Convention. All the members of the Supreme Court, the judges of the federal district courts, and the members of the cabinet were men who had been to the fore either in the Philadelphia Convention or in the state ratifying conventions. Eight signers of the Constitution were in the Senate, and as many more in the House. It began now to be manifest, as Madison said later, who was to govern the country; that is to say, in behalf of what economic interests the development of American constitutional government was to be directed.

Mr. Jefferson was slow to apprehend all this. He had hitherto regarded the Constitution as a purely political document, and having that view, he had spoken both for it and against it. He had criticized it severely because it contained no Bill of Rights and did not provide against indefinite tenure of office. With these omissions rectified by amendment, however, he seemed disposed to be satisfied with it. Its economic character and implications apparently escaped him, and now that for the first time he began, very slowly and imperfectly, to get a sense of it as an economic document of the first order, he began also to perceive that the distinction between Federalist and anti-Federalist, which he had disparaged in his letter to [Francis] Hopkinson, was likely to mean something after all.

Read the rest:  http://www.lewrockwell.com/nock/nock17.1.html

[Johnnyappleseed]

4bfox thank you for doing the research on the whitehouse and President Washington's role in starting construction .
I heard recently that George Washington stole 2 books ,or something . Not having much TV(no cable) we are not sure of who put out that important missing part of history 
JA

[4bfox]

Funny you should mention that.....I heard a news item about the same thing....the reporter said Washington had checked out 2 books and never returned them.