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Black Creek Dec. 4&5

Started by Dangerous Cook, December 06, 2010, 11:02:57 PM

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Dangerous Cook

Just wanted to say thank you to all the red hats and orange hats that made the weekend so much fun despite the cold (and wee bit of snow)  I wish I knew everyone's name, but both Rebecca and I had a blast. Rebecca is actively recruiting her teen friends to come with her next time.  So despite her tears on Sunday, she had a blast!  I'm still contemplating that orange hat thing.   
Stacie
"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
― Robert A. Heinlein

jmdavis

Quote from: Dangerous Cook on December 06, 2010, 11:02:57 PM
Just wanted to say thank you to all the red hats and orange hats that made the weekend so much fun despite the cold (and wee bit of snow)  I wish I knew everyone's name, but both Rebecca and I had a blast. Rebecca is actively recruiting her teen friends to come with her next time.  So despite her tears on Sunday, she had a blast!  I'm still contemplating that orange hat thing.   
Stacie


Stacie,

It was a pleasure to have you guys there. I will be calling you to discuss the Orange hat this week. I have your card at the office. Rebecca's last AQT was really good. I was impressed.


Mike


Mike
"If a man does his best, what else is there?"  - General George S. Patton Jr

  ...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
  Shall be my brother...-Shakespeare, Henry V
 

"There's a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top. Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and is much less prevalent. One of the most frequently noted characteristics of great men who have remained great is loyalty to their subordinates."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Your body can't go where your mind hasn't been."
- Alex Arrieta 1995 NTI Winner

The Wolfhound

I too, want to express my thanks.  I had to bribe Rebecca to come out.  Now she is contemplating the path to instructor.  I got her to come out and give it an honest try and she bettered my expectations.  She has not stopped smiling and sharing her experiences with her friends.  She has gained confidence in herself and her shooting.  I am most pleasantly amazed.

hawkhavn

Stacie and Rebecca,

Thank you for coming out and giving Appleseed a try!
Might I recommend you read this thread:
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=4577.0

And this one for Rebecca:
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=11133.0

Please post if you so desire.

HH
Criticism is the only known antidote to error.  David Brin

What a nation has done, a nation can aspire to.
Dr. Jerry Pournelle

Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as "bad luck."
---Robert Anson Heinlein

"Great things have been effected by a few men well conducted." - George Rogers Clark

"Appleseed is a safe place to learn because they care. They have the confidence and serenity of spring gardeners." 1IV on AR15.com

pbcook

Stacie and Rebecca,
My wife and I shot next to you all and enjoyed your company.   Looking forward to crossing paths again!
I've been experimenting on techniques to get those Marlin 795 mag changes to go a little smoother

Here's a quick question to the instructors--if my upper arm STILL aches like I just got a flu shot, does that mean I had my sling on sufficiently tight?

I'm calling it my Appleseed hangover...

hawkhavn

pbcook,

That would be my guess, remember 'taut' is the preferred tension on the sling...

HH
Criticism is the only known antidote to error.  David Brin

What a nation has done, a nation can aspire to.
Dr. Jerry Pournelle

Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as "bad luck."
---Robert Anson Heinlein

"Great things have been effected by a few men well conducted." - George Rogers Clark

"Appleseed is a safe place to learn because they care. They have the confidence and serenity of spring gardeners." 1IV on AR15.com

jmdavis

#6
Quote from: pbcook on December 07, 2010, 12:12:38 AM
Stacie and Rebecca,
My wife and I shot next to you all and enjoyed your company.   Looking forward to crossing paths again!
I've been experimenting on techniques to get those Marlin 795 mag changes to go a little smoother

Here's a quick question to the instructors--if my upper arm STILL aches like I just got a flu shot, does that mean I had my sling on sufficiently tight?

I'm calling it my Appleseed hangover...


From the looks of it yesterday your sling was "snug" enough. The best definition that I have heard for "snug" came from Appleseed founder "Fred." He defines snug as "if you loosen the sling by as little as 1/8th of an inch it is too loose."

You guys did good pb. I want to thank both of you for sticking it out and joining us for our "after shoot" meeting last night. I appreciate your work and your comments. The plan right now is to schedule the first shoot of the year for Feb, but it will likely be in VA Beach. I am working on a Montpelier shoot for March. The schedule should be coming together over the next few weeks as we get more info from our various locations and landowners.

Also, the Annapolis shoots are a good possibility for you guys. They are limited to 15 shooters, but the facility is good and BeSwift, PatentGuy et al are good instuctors.

The link below is for a WWII marksmanship training film. It has some excellent information and is very similar to the Appleseed program of instruction. Also, remember that a great deal of useful practice may be obtained through dry firing. The more seriously you take the process the more that you will get out of it.

http://www.archive.org/details/Rifle_Marksmanship_with_M1_Rifle_Part_1


Finally a piece of advice from VaShooter that I have used to improve my shooting in several disciplines. When you start shooting it is all a conscious effort. At this time you want to fill your mind with the act of shooting. Go through the process. Eventually more and more of the process will become sub conscious. You will find that you reach a point through live and dry fire where you can drop into position and you will have your npoa. When that happens you get your sight alignment, control your trigger, breath and fire. In other words you just "Breath. Relax and Squeeze."

Many things in shooting are negotiable, sight alignment and trigger control are not. They work and are common to a variety of disciplines.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions or thoughts.

"If a man does his best, what else is there?"  - General George S. Patton Jr

  ...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
  Shall be my brother...-Shakespeare, Henry V
 

"There's a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top. Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and is much less prevalent. One of the most frequently noted characteristics of great men who have remained great is loyalty to their subordinates."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Your body can't go where your mind hasn't been."
- Alex Arrieta 1995 NTI Winner

sgtmace

To have individuals come out, especially when the weather is dicey to participate in an event is great. To have couples come together is heart warming. But when families show up, it warms the very soul. So just imagine the effects this might have in the future if all are wearing hats as instructors. Just a thought. Thank you all for coming out, and I hope to see you all on the trail again soon.
sgtmace/Tim
If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget you were our countrymen.
Sam Adams

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force: Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." -- Patrick Henry

Dangerous Cook

Quote from: pbcook on December 07, 2010, 12:12:38 AM
Stacie and Rebecca,
My wife and I shot next to you all and enjoyed your company.   Looking forward to crossing paths again!
I've been experimenting on techniques to get those Marlin 795 mag changes to go a little smoother

Here's a quick question to the instructors--if my upper arm STILL aches like I just got a flu shot, does that mean I had my sling on sufficiently tight?

I'm calling it my Appleseed hangover...

I enjoyed shooting next to you as well and I am sure our paths will cross again!

After my first Appleseed I was so sore I could hardly move.  After my second, when I finally really understood the Natural Point of Aim and used it as best as I could, I was much less sore.  This time, except for thighs burning from so much up and down, I had no soreness.  I don't know if it is true, but I have attributed it to not "muscling" the rifle.

Stacie
"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
― Robert A. Heinlein

pbcook


Quote from: jmdavis on December 07, 2010, 12:51:59 AM
You guys did good pb. I want to thank both of you for sticking it out and joining us for our "after shoot" meeting last night. I appreciate your work and your comments.

Thanks Mike.  We were glad to see BD get his red hat and considered it a real privilege to be able to participate in the meeting.  Perhaps this has been thought up before, but "Mrs pbcook" had some additional thoughts about easing those with limited rifle experience onto the range.  Would it be possible to advertise and perform "Rifle 101" that could begin at 8:00 or so if the actual AS starts at 8:30?  Perhaps have a Ruger or a Marlin handy to show the basics of magazine changes, clearing misfeeds, etc.  I realize that this contradicts with the instructions to keep rifles in the car until instructed to fetch them, and I know folks should take the time to familiarize themselves with their rifle...but at least novices know beforehand that they will get some instruction, and the instructors know that these novices obtained an instructor-provided baseline.  Just a thought...

Speaking of Mrs Cook, I finished unpacking yesterday morning and decided to score some of our AQTs while I enjoyed some coffee in my RWVA mug.  I knew none of them were near Rifleman so we didn't waste yall's time, but I have to admit I was quite proud of my wife's shooting.  Her entire experience with a rifle is two weekends at Black Creek and now she's shooting in the mid 130s on the AQT, can put all three shots into the 300 yard red coat, and had at least one Morgan "head shot."

In other words, she's basically caught up to me--that's a testament to the work you all do! Like her silly husband, she can't see the 400 yard targets.  It was only after I put the scope on could I see them, and I immediately got an additional 30 point bump in my AQT scores.  After zeroing my scope in the first three stages of the first AQT of the day, I ripped off 90 points on the 400 yard targets...so I'm getting there.

I never did replicate that 90 point feat during the course of Sunday afternoon.  Just too many little things can go wrong.  As the temperature dropped, the scope slipped off the rails not once, but twice.  I ran out of time on several stages.  I started taking short cuts such as using the "open" sitting position because it took me too long to acquire my NPOA if I got in a firm sitting stance.  It was a trade: more accurate but fewer shots versus getting off 10 shots that weren't quite as good.  And as the afternoon wore on, I ran out of sort-of-dirty-ammo and had to use the really-dirty ammo, and my rifle started fouling--too many misfeeds in the final hour.   

Quote
Also, the Annapolis shoots are a good possibility for you guys. They are limited to 15 shooters, but the facility is good and BeSwift, PatentGuy et al are good instuctors.

I did notice some upcoming dates.  Heck I thought about driving up there Sunday morning to do some more AQTs, but the wife did manage to catch a pretty bad sniffle so I'll check their January shoot.  I'd like to think she caught this bug from the monsters children rather than from being out in the cold while husband tries to earn a patch and earn the right to do a KD shoot.

QuoteThe link below is for a WWII marksmanship training film.

Actually I do have this bookmarked and have been known to watch and dry practice in the basement.  I get a little twitchy when the wife's cats wander between me and the light socket/target. >:D

QuoteFinally a piece of advice from VaShooter that I have used to improve my shooting in several disciplines. When you start shooting it is all a conscious effort. At this time you want to fill your mind with the act of shooting. Go through the process. Eventually more and more of the process will become sub conscious. You will find that you reach a point through live and dry fire where you can drop into position and you will have your npoa. When that happens you get your sight alignment, control your trigger, breath and fire. In other words you just "Breath. Relax and Squeeze."

Many things in shooting are negotiable, sight alignment and trigger control are not. They work and are common to a variety of disciplines.

One instructor looked like I kicked his dog when I started using a scope, but it did one other amazing for me besides revealing the location of the 400 yard targets...it allowed me to relax a little bit.  I never realized how much stress I had trying to get my sight alignment and picture on a distant, blurry ghost.  Once I could see my target, I began to realize I was holding the rifle too tight and that my trigger control is, well, inconsistent.  Being able to see reduces the number of variables on why some shots  go astray.  As I see the hole appear two inches to the left of the target, I wonder, "did I just jerk that trigger..why yes, I think I did."  I've read elsewhere on this website that when teaching kids to shoot, its best to put them on a scope so they learn the basics and don't get frustrated.  For now I'm going to rationalize that I'm just a big kid ::)  And then I'll try again with iron sights...

Well now I'm getting tired and need to wrap this up, but I do have one last anecdote from the weekend.  A good shot is a lot like a good golf swing.  I'm not very good at golf, but every time I play, I always have one good shot that makes the whole day worth it whether it be a 200 yard drive that actually goes down the fairway or sinking a 50 foot putt. (After all, after 150 strokes, odds are at least one of them will be decent.)  After an AQT had gone wrong in Stage 2 where I only got off two shots and sabotaged myself with a bad mag change, I was suffering through an inaccurate fourth round.  I can't remember which instructor it was, but he said I was dragging wood and letting go of the trigger.  I had been battling this bad habit all day so on my 10th and final round I finally got my mind working right thought about the six steps and bang, right through the "V."  The shot of the day.  Now if I can only do that every time...