Winter Seeds are fine, what about Summer Seeds?

[Hambone]

Just curious, as not but a few months ago we were holding shoots in 108+ degree weather. Myself and Jules made multiple trips off-range to refill the 2 large water-dispensers so as to keep the Shooters and Instructors hydrated.
I am unsure if it was mentioned in the IAAR but my comments on the weather at the Sat AAR in Sac. were positive in regards to the extreme heat. It was a challenge that was overcome by the Shooters and Instructors alike.
108 is pretty high for NorCal. I cannot imagine what it must be like in SoCal or, Science help them, Arizona, and I believe that if there is to be special recognition for severe weather, Heat and wind must also be taken into consideration alongside cold and rain.

/just sayin'

[AZbinary]

108 is simply a brisk fall day here...   seriously, the summer season is dangerous and unpredictable enough that we don't attempt to Appleseed during that time of year.  The last thing the program needs is a fatality.

[dart67eb]

Try Mississippi in July.  Totally drenched by 0730.  But it's a wet heat.  I don't care, though.

[polygunner]

Summer seeds?
Don't forget spring and fall seeds too.
Instead of the sub classifications how 'bout we get back to Appleseeds.
Carry on.
pg

[BaldDragn]

The best thing about an Appleseed in 111* in August is that the people who show up are really really serious about getting off the couch.

That's better than a new patch.

[polygunner]

The best thing about an Appleseed in 111* in August is that the people who show up are really really serious about getting off the couch.

That's better than a new patch.

Amen brother!
pg

[Mark Davis]

Ahh the joy of shooting.
Appleseed in a heat wave, Logan MT July 2007 shooting up in a breezless bay with the sun baking down, shooters lined up like fishsticks on a cookie sheet.
Appleseed April 2008 Whittamore Range Three Forks MT. Snow, rain, hail, wind gusts that shifted prone shooters 6 minutes right. Kept digging mud out of my left ear.
Appleseed Feb 2010 Laramire Wy. -5 temps at 8:30 am warming to just above freezing around 1:00PM pretty nice though with very light winds. The clay fireing line was like 2" of melted ice crean on top of frozen clay.
Nice thing about shooting in the wind and cold, there no gnats swarming in your face messing with your sight picture.
A green patch is a good patch.

[Wheeler44]

But Cloddy.. You're missin' the point.....We need pink patches if ya shot like a girl and blue ones if you're a guy...Super sized patches for super sized shooters ( or was that KD, I can't remember). I can see a red patch for hot days and ones that turn blue below freezin'...We need a Rainbow colored patch for...well..I'll think of somethin'...Ol' Western Rosey should have a pink/backwards patch for shootin' lefty like a girl...We could have a patch for "almost Rifleman"  Oh I can see the possibilities......Lots of possibilities....

W44

[eaglescouter]

If it takes a patch or three to motivate americanus doofus to rise off his couch and get involved then we probably should have more opportunities to 'earn' patches.

Perhaps strips to go under the Rifleman Patch to show what 'extras' you have accomplished?

Bolt Action
Rimfire
Semi Auto
Centerfire
Full Distance
Wrong Handed
Iron Sights
Scoped
Cold
Hot
PMS
Grouchy

Perhaps grouchy is going a bit too far....

[Jules]

If it takes a patch or three to motivate americanus doofus to rise off his couch and get involved then we probably should have more opportunities to 'earn' patches.

Perhaps strips to go under the Rifleman Patch to show what 'extras' you have accomplished?

Bolt Action
Rimfire
Semi Auto
Centerfire
Full Distance
Wrong Handed
Iron Sights
Scoped
Cold
Hot
PMS
Grouchy

Perhaps grouchy is going a bit too far....

No, not when Instructing in Lemoore. There should be a patch for that. And a patch for surviving Piru

[BP]

I think the only patches that should be given are regular rifleman patches, and cleaning patches. Clean that rifle, and be happy you get recognition for a 210!

[Mr Pete]

As a veteran of Piru I understand the desire...if there are Winterseeds why not Summerseeds.

For junior shooters Luther Blanchard patches are that little something-something that may provide extra motivation.  Perhaps Summerseeds and Winterseeds should be a rocker or embellishment like State rockers, KD pins, etc. 

Because of cost maybe these "accessory" patches are only available in the online store (Winterseed included). 
1)  It is a draw back to our online community
2)  SBs don't need to stock tons of extra patches
3)  Costs are kept down
4)  Puts extra dough in the kitty
5)  Hardliners (EARN that one and only OD patch) and Fun-seekers (I like pink to match my rifle) = happy

-Pete

[BaldDragn]

Very nice solution Pete!

[Garand69]

But Cloddy.. You're missin' the point.....We need pink patches if ya shot like a girl and blue ones if you're a guy...Super sized patches for super sized shooters ( or was that KD, I can't remember). I can see a red patch for hot days and ones that turn blue below freezin'...We need a Rainbow colored patch for...well..I'll think of somethin'...Ol' Western Rosey should have a pink/backwards patch for shootin' lefty like a girl...We could have a patch for "almost Rifleman"  Oh I can see the possibilities......Lots of possibilities....

W44

How about it 

[Wade]

Patches Patches patches,,,,,,also there could be a patch for shooting aqt with a singal shot rifle  or for being pre babtised (i.e allready soaking wet)

How about S.O.M  stay on mission,,,, we teach  practical Rifle Marksmanship and American History ! wake ppl up get them to Think !

I could get wraped around the axle on the patches thing  but that would take me away from my primary mission of Appleseeding .

I will ask this,  is that bigger better patch a form of an EGO boost ? EGO = Edging  God  Out .
imho even my Riflemans patch is a learners permit we can all get better at shooting no matter what the skill level and there is ALLWAYS some one that shoots better.  outside of AS I am knowen for enjoying "abit" of target shooting thats something I enjoy , When I can I work AS into it I.E where I learned the basic's of Rifle shooting the building blocks  of Good  Marksmanship.
Winning Hearts and Minds , The History of April 19th 1775 is more Important then all the shots I can put on target at what ever given distance ,,,As Fred used to say Win the Soft War.
STAY ON MISSION
STAY ON MISSION
STAY ON MISSION

Wade

[Mr Pete]

Isn't this part of the soft war?  Doesn't building a sense of community = winning hearts and minds?

I'm not saying we have to indulge every fashion or interest (the mauve, bolt-action, monte-carlo left hander league).

What if the benefits to community outweigh our personal preferences and sensibilities?

Rather than just saying I don't like it (and I personally don't) shouldn't we make this work for us if we can?

-Peter

[JustJeff]

What if the benefits to community outweigh our personal preferences and sensibilities?

Rut Roh......
last time I heard something along those lines, my 4A rights were about to be violated.

[Mr Pete]

Zing!  Ouch...

All I'm saying is shouldn't we figure out if it is a tool that can help us.

I personally don't like the idea of the Winterseed patch (or Summerseed for that matter) but if it helps accomplish our mission without compromising it shouldn't we at least think about it?

-Pete

What if the benefits to community outweigh our personal preferences and sensibilities?

Rut Roh......
last time I heard something along those lines, my 4A rights were about to be violated.

[Pvt.Joker]

Isn't this part of the soft war?  Doesn't building a sense of community = winning hearts and minds?

I'm not saying we have to indulge every fashion or interest (the mauve, bolt-action, monte-carlo left hander league).

What if the benefits to community outweigh our personal preferences and sensibilities?

Rather than just saying I don't like it (and I personally don't) shouldn't we make this work for us if we can?

-Peter

I agree, Mr. Pete. This is a valuable asset in the soft war. Without a sense of community, friendships, relationships with those next to us... we lack the most important thing the heroes of April 19, 1775 had. They were families, and neighbors and friends from childhood. Anything we can do to intensify the bonds, the relationships, the esprit de corps, should be done unless there is an identifiable detriment to the mission.

Let the average friendless American see this kind of connectedness, and it will just be one more reason to get off the couch again.

[Garand69]

Zing!  Ouch...

All I'm saying is shouldn't we figure out if it is a tool that can help us.

I personally don't like the idea of the Winterseed patch (or Summerseed for that matter) but if it helps accomplish our mission without compromising it shouldn't we at least think about it?

-Pete

What if the benefits to community outweigh our personal preferences and sensibilities?

Rut Roh......
last time I heard something along those lines, my 4A rights were about to be violated.

Mr. Pete, in regards to patches, the best way we can accomplish our mission is to get rid of this "Collect all Twelve" mentality and actually get the most important part of earning a Rifleman's Patch across to the new "Rifleman"  which is that it isn't a trophy or a collector piece.... It is a new responsibility to pass on the knowledge learned while earning it.

Edited to add...

No one who showed up on 4/19/1775 showed up for a different color patch.......

[nmmi9100]

I'm all for just 2 patches.

Green for folks that live where it's green.

Tan for folks that live where it's not.

-David
Edgewood, NM

[JustJeff]

I'm all for just 2 patches.

Green for folks that live where it's green.

Tan for folks that live where it's not.

-David
Edgewood, NM

Sure you don't want a "Dust Devil" patch to go with those blustery and sandy shoots you've had?

[Wheeler44]

Zing!  Ouch...

All I'm saying is shouldn't we figure out if it is a tool that can help us.

I personally don't like the idea of the Winterseed patch (or Summerseed for that matter) but if it helps accomplish our mission without compromising it shouldn't we at least think about it?

-Pete

What if the benefits to community outweigh our personal preferences and sensibilities?

Rut Roh......
last time I heard something along those lines, my 4A rights were about to be violated.

Mr. Pete, in regards to patches, the best way we can accomplish our mission is to get rid of this "Collect all Twelve" mentality and actually get the most important part of earning a Rifleman's Patch across to the new "Rifleman"  which is that it isn't a trophy of a collector piece.... It is a new responsibility to pass on the knowledge learned while earning it.

Edited to add...

No one who showed up on 4/19/1775 showed up for a different color patch.......

Well said G69....well said..

W44

I was being facetious about the multi-patch syndrome in my above aside to Cloddy.. Sarcasm fail on my part

[Wade]

Mr. Pete, in regards to patches, the best way we can accomplish our mission is to get rid of this "Collect all Twelve" mentality and actually get the most important part of earning a Rifleman's Patch across to the new "Rifleman" Which is that it isn't a trophy of a collector piece.... It is a new responsibility to pass on the knowledge learned while earning it.

Edited to add...

No one who showed up on 4/19/1775 showed up for a different color patch.......
[/quote]
Note that with this Riflemans patch came a responsibility to teach others not just the shooting skill but a reminder of a debt owed to the founding fathers of this country,,,,,,At one time I was worried about a Rocker Patch for my home state ,I no longer concern myself with that it would be feeding my EGO , I can feed my ego or I can use the same energy to feed the growth of the Appleseed Project.
Look at bolth why you want it and why you would not want it  take an honest inventory of it ,,I know darn it I am asking you all to think again ,if it works out for the right resones in favor of a new patch fine  if not fine .

Wade

[Mark Davis]

Well Wheeler,
I recognized your sarcasm, and a witty answer never came.
And since good ole cloddy is at least partly responsible for W Rosie's left handed dive I thought I should keep keep quiet.
Just walking on eggs over here.
But maybe I can give away one them there rainbow patches.

[Wheeler44]

But maybe I can give away one them there rainbow patches.

Fred used to pick on you folks in MT because Elton John drew a bigger audience than Appleseed.....Maybe if someone traded in an Elton John ticket for a spot on the line, we could work sumpthin' out.....er sumpthin' like that....

W44

[Mark Davis]

Its true Bozeman had 30,000 people paying 90 bucks to attend a concert in the Field house with real bad acoustics. Thirty miles away ten people showed up for appleseed.
I'm going to need more than one of those rainbow patches.

[Hambone]

Having read the replies to my original post, and having experienced the worst weather conditions I have ever been exposed to at an Appleseed shoot this past weekend, I have to say that it is my belief that a 'Winterseed' patch will do nothing but further feelings of contempt and schismatic behavior between regions that do not experience snow-like conditions.

I do not know if I would call it 'pandering', but it seems to be the correct terminology for rewarding States that have snowy conditions for doing what they should be doing without complaint.

A Rifleman's patch should be sufficient enough. Anything else is Ego.

[Mr Pete]

I've thought at length abouth this subject and it comes down to two things:
1) Reward
2) Expression

I don't support rewarding people for things they should be doing otherwise.  I've stated from the beginning my opposition to winter and summer patches.

I do however support people expressing themselves as they wish, hence my suggestion about additional patches available for purchase.

Following my previous responses will show these things clearly even if I didn't expressly write it as I did above.

Framed this way, the one and only patch is earned.  Other patches available for purchase as permitted by your level.

What say you?

-Pete

[Cory Mathis]

We need to have a 250 perfection patch.  That's the only one besides the rifleman's patch that I would be striving for.  Or maybe, "I got 500 people to wake up and come to an AS patch".  OK, make it a total of three patches I would be striving for.