Author Topic: AAR College Station, TX Sept. 25/26 2010  (Read 3358 times)

Offline sleepy Joe

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AAR College Station, TX Sept. 25/26 2010
« on: September 27, 2010, 03:16:00 PM »
It was another successful event at College Station Texas I will add all the details soon as I get them typed up. Steve feel free to add any photos.
I want to thank the land owner Steve and Cawthon Cartridge Club for hosting this event. thier website is cccshooters.com. Also I want to thank Sir Not Appearing In This Film, Reddot, Scuzzy, and Baminal for instructing with me and making this an enjoyable experience.
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Offline scuzzy

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Re: AAR College Station, TX Sept. 25/26 2010
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2010, 05:35:42 PM »
It was a good shoot with lots of nice people attending. Scott and his crew with Vernon his dad were good Americans. Lauren the young girl is a very good shot too. I especially liked talking to Vernon.

One of the shooters, Jason is knocking on the Riflemans door and wants to become an instructor.

Toni did his first seed and will be back. He did good and said he enjoyed the weekend.

Joe did a good event as the SB. The other guys Reddot, SNAITF, and Baminal interacted with everybody in a positive way.





I just wanted to be left alone.

Offline sleepy Joe

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Re: AAR College Station, TX Sept. 25/26 2010
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2010, 01:24:42 PM »
thanks for the photos since I forgot my camera
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Offline TNVolunteer

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Re: AAR College Station, TX Sept. 25/26 2010
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2010, 04:01:49 PM »
Thanks to all the instructors for putting on another good shoot.  This was my 4th Appleseed and while I didn't shoot Rifleman status, I was closer than ever before and better yet, much more consistent.  I thought we had a very nice sociable group of participants which enhanced the experience greatly.  I think my favorite thing out the weekend was seeing Ian fire his dad's CMP M1 carbine which to me was a tremendous illustration of the rifleman's heritage bridging a gap between generations. 

I WANT THAT PATCH!   :wb:

I cancelled my plans that conflicted with the next shoot at CS so I will be back again, this time with some more practice under my belt.

Sleepy Joe, Reddot, SNAITF, Scuzzy, & Baminal, thanks again.

TNVolunteer


Reddot

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Re: AAR College Station, TX Sept. 25/26 2010
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2010, 05:35:38 PM »
Keep dry firing, practicing those mag changes and transitions and you will get that patch!!  A Rifleman persists ~~:)


Thanks to all the instructors for putting on another good shoot.  This was my 4th Appleseed and while I didn't shoot Rifleman status, I was closer than ever before and better yet, much more consistent.  I thought we had a very nice sociable group of participants which enhanced the experience greatly.  I think my favorite thing out the weekend was seeing Ian fire his dad's CMP M1 carbine which to me was a tremendous illustration of the rifleman's heritage bridging a gap between generations. 

I WANT THAT PATCH!   :wb:

I cancelled my plans that conflicted with the next shoot at CS so I will be back again, this time with some more practice under my belt.

Sleepy Joe, Reddot, SNAITF, Scuzzy, & Baminal, thanks again.

TNVolunteer



Offline willb

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Re: AAR College Station, TX Sept. 25/26 2010
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2010, 07:20:32 PM »
Thanks to the great instructors and the time they put in on this.  Thanks to Joe for taking the time to run me through the sitting fire positions before I went awol - truly above and beyond the call.  Really hated to shoot and scoot on day one but i'll be back for the full 2 days fall 2010/spring 2011 - location tbd: probably either Fredericksburg or Davilla.

I appreciate the rwva approach to history...focusing on the details - the "stuff of history" to quote Murray Rothbard.  I have to recommend Rothbard's epic 4-volume history of the colonial period + revolutionary war:  'Conceived in Liberty'.  Available here: http://mises.org/store/Conceived-in-Liberty-4-Volume-Set-P1094.aspx .  A year+ project to read but well worth it for the libertarian-oriented reader serious about Colonial history.

Now I just need to find a Redfield M79 Rear Peep Sight to replace the missing one on my H&R M-165 Leatherneck.  Grandfather lost it when his eyes went and he put the scope on (20 years ago).  This should be fun...no luck on e-bay or google so far.  If any ideas or directions to point, give me a shout.

Offline Aromatic

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Re: AAR College Station, TX Sept. 25/26 2010
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2010, 07:57:31 PM »
Thanks for the book suggestion willb.  Mises.org is a great site.  Hope to see you on the trail.


Offline Sir Not Appearing In This Film

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Re: AAR College Station, TX Sept. 25/26 2010
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2010, 04:32:24 PM »
Just click on the picture to increase its size.

Saturday - Getting started:


First Strike can make you thirsty:










Trigger squeeze:


sleepy Joe and Reddot demo sling and prone:






Talking Targets








Ball and Dummy:








Sitting and kneeling demo:








It began to rain a bit at the end of the day Saturday as a weather front moved through.


I'll add Sunday photos soon.
Ladyseed Man Slave

"In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing." - Theodore Roosevelt

Attitudes are contagious. I hope mine is worth catching.

Offline sleepy Joe

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Re: AAR College Station, TX Sept. 25/26 2010
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2010, 07:04:06 PM »
thank you Steve for adding the photos, looking forward to Sunday edition
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Offline Tourmeister

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Re: AAR College Station, TX Sept. 25/26 2010
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2010, 02:52:55 AM »
Howdy,

The following is a copy of the AAR I posted on my motorcycle forum: twtex.com You can view the report and comments there at this location:

My Weekend At The Gun Range... The Appleseed Project
http://twtex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51476

So a long time ago, I found out about the Appleseed Project and sent the info to my older brother. His daughter had recently taken up an interest in shooting and I thought it might be something they'd enjoy doing together. I also sent him this review by Massad Ayoob. He got REAL excited about it and wanted me and my Dad to attend an event with them. Well, Dad and I work together and we take turns being on 24/7 emergency call, so it is very difficult for both of us to do something at the same time. Not only that, but because I only get every other weekend free from being on call, most of my weekends are already full of other stuff. So many months went by before we finally managed to get a weekend that had an event near enough to attend and that all of us could get the time off to attend. That was last weekend 9/25 and the location was Cawthon, Texas. We had to be there by about 8:15 am, which meant leaving Huntsville at the freaking crack of dawn... $$-0

Friday night about 9:00pm, I get a call from Will Bird. I had sent emails out to my friends a few weeks back but never heard from any of them. He wants to know if he can come with us. They allow walk ons so I tell him to come on and join us. He will be coming over from Austin, leaving even earlier than us!

We arrived a little early at 8:00am to find a few other folks showing up. The instructors were setting up the range and firing line. The "range" is nothing more than a U shape set of berms. There was a nearby restroom building, but that was it in terms of facilities. We were instructed to leave the weapons in the vehicles, but to go ahead and get everything else set up. Then we had the safety briefing that covered the rules of safe weapon handling. Only after the safety briefing were we allowed to bring the weapons to the firing line and put them in safe mode: laying on the mat with muzzle pointed down range, breech up and open, safety flag in the barrel, magazines out, safety on. At no time were we allowed to handle the weapons except during specific "prep" times.

The range


The gun in safe mode


We were all using Ruger 10-22's. Dad and James (my brother) got the original pair for Christmas way back in the early 70's. I never got one. I fired theirs occasionally when growing up, but other than that I have not had much experience firing rifles of any kind. Nor have I ever had any kind of formal training in their use. Dad bought a few more new 10-22's so that we'd each have a rifle outfitted for the weekend. All had basic scopes, but iron sights are common for these events. We each had three 10 round rotary magazines. Each rifle had a strap. And we had enough ammo for everyone to have five hundred rounds. I did not get much time to practice with the rifle prior to the event, but we did to a day at a range in Conroe where I was able to familiarize myself with the rifle's operation and get the scope reasonably sighted.

Once everything was set up, the instructors introduced themselves, gave a little background on themselves, and then we got our first lecture on history.

Joe telling the story about Lexington


Throughout the day, we'd get three such lectures covering different aspects of the battle of Lexington and the start of the Revolutionary War. Most of this was familiar to me as I have done a good bit of reading on the time period, but it was not to everyone else. Still it was very well presented and interesting nonetheless. After the first lecture, we did the Redcoat target shooting. This is a target with several silhouettes of differing sizes representing 100 yard, 200 yards, 300 yards, 400 yards, and a 250 yard head shot. The targets were ALL set at 25 meters, so we were not shooting actual distance. The size of the silhouettes approximates the actual range (discounting ballistic effects). We shot 13 rounds, one for each colony, at the target, three at each silhouette and one at the head shot. All shots were from the prone (laying down) position. I got all three rounds in the 100 and 200, but only one or two on the 300 and 400, and just missed the head shot. This was to be our baseline for the start of the event.

The next thing we did was start going over the safety rules again.

1. ALWAYS point your muzzle in a safe direction
2. Load the weapon ONLY when given the load command by the line instructor
3. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on your target
4. Make sure your neighbors are following the rules.

Then we covered proper technique for firing

1. Align the sights on the target
2. Get the sight picture
3. Lungs empty respiratory pause
4. a) focus eyes on front sight b) Focus mind on keeping sights on target
5. Squeeze the trigger
6. Hold the trigger after firing, call the shot, and let trigger out

Ideally, if you do all these things correctly, the shot goes where you want... in theory... So now we cover the steady hold factors for firing from the prone position.

Joe explains while Chuck demonstrates - support arm directly under stock with hand relaxed


Strap snug but not too tight, rifle pulled into shoulder, trigger hand relaxed with finger off the side of the rifle and only contacting trigger. Cheek firmly on stock.


Trigger hand side leg up and out to provide lateral stability. Other leg relaxed and NOT pushing on ground.


We do some firing drills from the prone position at targets with just 1" X 1" squares on them. After the first drill, I get paged  :wb: Dad decides he is not able to get down on the ground to shoot, so he takes a break to find out what the page is about. He ends up working most of the rest of the day and lets me continue the class even though I am technically the one on call. We continue doing more drills to help us practice the prone position, getting all the steady hold factors down, and working on our firing technique. After doing this for a while, Joe and Steve explain the concept of Natural Point of Aim.

This worked better once a laser pointer was taped to the end of the stock.


The idea behind the NPOA is that once you are in a stable position and have adjusted so that your sights are on the target, you should be able to close your eyes, go through a breathing cycle, open your eyes and your sights should be right on target again. When firing, you should absorb the recoil, breath, and be right back on target again. If you do everything right, then you should have a pretty tight group after firing several rounds, even if they are not directly on the target point. Once you are getting good groups, which indicates you are doing all the steps correctly, then you worry about adjusting sights. If your shots are all over the place or exhibit particular patterns, then you need to adjust your technique. We got a great target analysis sheet that shows common shot patterns and the causes of each. This helps a lot in identifying where you are not getting your technique right.

The heat is REALLY coming on as it gets closer to noon. Also, I wound up working last night because an emergency job came in around 3:00am. Between the lack of heat and sleep deprivation, I am feeling pretty bad. Still, I am having fun and learning a LOT. We continue to practice shooting and then take a lunch break and get another history lecture. After lunch, we start going over the other firing positions and the hold factors related to each one.

The pit tents are a must in my view...


Kirby demonstrates the sitting position


This is with the knees high, legs crossed, elbows go on target side of knees, support hand relaxed, strap snug, cheek on the stock




The more stable lower position for those that can actually bend like that  :o (which does NOT include me!!)


Kirby demonstrates the kneeling position used by people like me that just don't bend well  :-[




Note the elbow on the trigger arm, the chicken wing, it really does help to get it up there!


Joe demonstrates the standing position with the help of Steve




Once we covered all the basic shooting positions and their respective hold factors, we spent the rest of the day shooting AQT drills. Each drill starts with a timed prep period where we prep the magazines with the required number of rounds, make any adjustments to the rifle if needed, practice the drill with dry firing, and mentally get ready. Then the instructor would have us load, check the firing line, and then give the fire command.



Each drill is timed. The first drill has us start standing and shooting standing, 10 shoots from one magazine into the largest silhouette. The second drill has us prep one magazine with 2 rounds and another with 8 rounds, then putting five rounds in each profile. Start from standing and on the fire command transitioning to sitting/kneeling, loading and firing. The third round is 2/8 on the magazines and 3/3/4 on the profiles. Start from standing and on the fire command transition to prone, loading and firing. The last drill is 10 rounds in one magazine, 2/2/3/3 on the profiles. Start prone, on the fire command, load and fire. We go through all these drills at a pretty slow pace, checking each profile after each drill to see how we did. This pretty well takes up the rest of the day.

Not only is it freaking hot, but around 3:30-4:00pm, it starts raining. Will had to leave early so he just missed the rain. It is just enough to make the dirt really stick to the shoes and generally make a mess. However, we keep on shooting. The last few drills I start having trouble with the ammo not feeding properly and jamming. This gets frustrating because we are now being timed and once the cease fire command is given, you MUST cease fire. So there are several instances where I can't get off every round. Eventually, we shoot another Redcoat target and then we are done. The wind was really starting to blow and the moment the fire command was given, my target stand below over backward  :-\  So I didn't get to see if I could improve over this mornings shot. I was getting pretty discouraged by the end of the day. Between being really hot and tired, I felt like I was getting worse instead of better. So I was ready to call it a day when we were finally done. We broke everything down and loaded up pretty fast because we weren't sure what the weather was going to do. Then we got one more history lecture and were done. 5:00pm. Nine hours on the range.

Once home, I took a nice hot shower, ate some dinner, took some Aleive, and hit the sack pretty early. I was exhausted and sore. Part of me wants to blow off day two, but I decide to ride it out and see how I feel after a good night of sleep.

Okay, day two...

I sleep pretty good so I feel better in the morning. Also, I hit the Aleive again. We arrive at the range a little after 8:00am and start setting up for the day. It is noticeably cooler today than it was yesterday. Hopefully this will be the case all day. The wind is blowing pretty good and there is some cloud cover. No rain would be nice. Before we bring out the rifles, we do another safety briefing and go over the proper firing procedure.

Dad will be shooting from that chair/table setup




We get another history lesson and then review what we learned yesterday about the steady hold factors for the various positions.

Brett demonstrates the prone position


Kirby shows the sitting position again


We do some warm up shooting starting with the Redcoat target and then the square targets. I don't get three shots into ANY of the Redcoats this time  ??? Then it is time to start doing the AQT drills again. Only this time, we get much less time for each drill and they count for qualification to get your Rifleman's badge if you shoot well enough. If we shoot a 210 out of a possible 250 on ANY of the AQT's, then we get the badge. So we get right to business and post the targets up downrange.

By lunch time, I think we've done four AQT drill sets. Prep times are down to a minute unless someone requests a little extra time for some specific purpose, like adjusting sights or scopes, or perhaps they need assistance with something on the weapon. I don't seem to be having the same magazine issues as yesterday and that is nice. Things do get a bit repetitive during the day simply because we are doing the same thing over and over. Prep 10, 10 on target from standing position. Two minutes to complete once fire command given. Prep 2 and 8, fire 5 and 5 on target transitioning from standing to sitting/kneeling. 55 seconds to complete once fire command given. Prep 2 and 8, 3/3/4 on target transitioning from standing to prone. 65 seconds to complete once fire command given. Prep 10, 2/2/3/3 on target starting prone. Five minutes to complete once fire command given. Rinse and repeat...

Many people struggled to get the short duration drills done in the 55 and 65 seconds in the early sessions, but after a few sessions most folks seemed to be getting the hang of things and were getting off all their shots unless something happened. The five minute drill was usually completed by everyone at just over two minutes. Occasionally, I did have a round that would not feed completely and the slide would jam the bullet into the bottom of the barrel, bending the bullet down from the casing. I got pretty good at clearing these, and if time permitted I could even get an extra round or two loaded in a spare clip laying close by and complete the drill.

After each set of AQT's was completed, we would retrieve the target sheet, score them, evaluate our shot patterns, try to figure out what we might be doing wrong so we could correct it, then get right back into the next AQT. Making use of the prep time is critical. This is where I'd mentally go through all the steps of the drill, working through the actual motions, dry firing, practicing breathing, making special note of actions that need to be corrected like not dragging my finger on the stock as I pull the trigger. I usually prepped the magazines for the next drill at the end of the previous drill rather than waiting for the prep time. This saved a lot of time.

On the very first AQT we did on Saturday late afternoon I scored a 101. Hmm... I had hoped to do better. But my focus was toast by that time. So I was hoping to get better Sunday. Here are my scores for Sunday

Round 1: 150
Round 2: 144
Round 3: 152
Round 4: 163 (my best)
Round 5: 144
Round 6: 129
Round 7: 153

It was frustrating that I was not seeing any improvement throughout the day. I liken it to learning to ride a motorcycle though. There are a lot of things that you have to be doing all at once. When it is new, you typically will get about 3/4 of them done right and screw up the other 1/4. If you focus on getting that 1/4 right, you screw up a different 1/4, and on it goes. This has to be done enough times where it all starts to become automatic and doesn't require as much deliberate thought. Just as new riders will reach that point where everything starts to "click" and they begin to get smoother and are better at knowing what to ignore and what to pay attention too, I suspect the same thing happens with these shooting techniques. So I am trying to keep my perspective given my lack of experience with shooting in general and with these techniques in particular. Most of all, the weather has been MUCH nicer today and I just physically feel MUCH better, so I am having a really good time. Although my elbows are not real happy...  :o

During some of the prep times, breaks, and at the end of the longer shooting drills, I walk around and take some pics of folks shooting and some of the various rifles being used.

I don't recall his name (Jason?), but this was his fourth time at Appleseed and his best score of the day was a 198!  :bow:




10/22, M1 Garand, AR 15


Close up of the M1




Close up of one of the AR's present




My brother James and his daughter Lauren


Dad shooting from the bench


13 year old Ian shooting an M1 Carbine (shot the 10/22 on Saturday)




Steve, one of the instructors, shoots his Dragunov




Showing good form in the open leg sitting position


After about round 5 or so, I was starting to get tired. The heat was not bad and it never rained, but the lack of sleep Friday night and the activity of the last two days was catching up with me and I could see it in the targets. We finally completed the last round. The last shooting was our final Redcoat target. I only get two shots into the 100 yard silhouette, three in both the 200 and 300 yard silhouettes with pretty tight groupings, two in the 400 yard with the third shot just out but still close to the others, and I nailed the 250 head shot almost dead center!! That was a nice way to end the day! After that, we started to pack up everything. However, before we left we got a last history lesson that was really good. All of the various instructors that gave the lessons did a nice job.

Joe, Steve, Kirby, Chuck, and Brett


Me, James, Lauren and Dad


I would highly recommend this event to anyone interested in becoming a better rifle shooter. It is NOT as easy as you might think. Will Bird went through the Army training and his opinion is that this class is very well done and more informative than the Army training. The instructors were all very enthusiastic, helpful, and knowledgeable. Any time I asked for specific help or for them to watch me to help me identify what I might be doing wrong, they were more than happy to assist. It was nice that there were five of them and only about 10 shooters. I definitely plan to attend future events, but before then I REALLY need to work on dry firing to get my trigger motion down. I was jerking the trigger, dragging my finger, letting the trigger snap back after firing, and generally inducing a lot of wiggle from straining to get into the proper positions. So I also need to work on flexibility so I don't have to strain so much to hold position and can relax. Lastly, I REALLY like the emphasis on safety and I thought they did an excellent job of managing the firing line all weekend!
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Scott Friday

Offline Tourmeister

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Re: AAR College Station, TX Sept. 25/26 2010
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2010, 03:04:33 AM »
I appreciate the rwva approach to history...focusing on the details - the "stuff of history" to quote Murray Rothbard.  I have to recommend Rothbard's epic 4-volume history of the colonial period + revolutionary war:  'Conceived in Liberty'.  Available here: http://mises.org/store/Conceived-in-Liberty-4-Volume-Set-P1094.aspx .  A year+ project to read but well worth it for the libertarian-oriented reader serious about Colonial history.

Here it is for free from the Mises.org website  O0

Conceived in Liberty, Volume 1: A New Land, A New People 
http://mises.org/books/conceived1.pdf

Conceived in Liberty, Volume 2: The American Colonies in the First Half of the 18th Century 
http://mises.org/books/conceived2.pdf

Conceived in Liberty, Volume 3: Advance to Revolution, 1760-1775 
http://mises.org/books/conceived3.pdf

Conceived in Liberty, Volume 4: The Revolutionary War 
http://mises.org/books/conceived4.pdf


Rothbard is one of my favorite authors. He has a history of banking in the U.S. from colonial days up through the 1950's that is an incredible read. It sounds boring and dry, but when you remember the old adage of "follow the money", history starts to make a LOT more sense!
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Scott Friday

Reddot

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Re: AAR College Station, TX Sept. 25/26 2010
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2010, 09:12:47 AM »
Scott,
 Thanks for all the great pictures and the super write up.
Looking forward to seeing you on the line again.
Chuck

Offline TNVolunteer

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Re: AAR College Station, TX Sept. 25/26 2010
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2010, 12:14:09 PM »
Great post Scott!  I've got some time today so will finally get to download all the pictures I took over the weekend.  I think I have a few of everybody that attended and will hopefully have them posted here this afternoon or tomorrow latest.

Jason
TNVolunteer

Offline sleepy Joe

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Re: AAR College Station, TX Sept. 25/26 2010
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2010, 01:17:41 AM »
thanks for all the detail Scott, very impressive. Keep practicing those tools of becoming a rifleman. and dry fire
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Offline Baminal

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Re: AAR College Station, TX Sept. 25/26 2010
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2010, 10:51:34 AM »
I just love those pictures of classic rifles surrounded by spent brass O0 O0 O0
The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush.  It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference and undernourishment.
Robert Maynard Hutchins, Educator (1899-1977)

Love you liberty and fight for it like men who know its value.  Once lost, it will never, never be regained.
Capt. Hugh Ledlie (1720-1798)

Offline sleepy Joe

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Re: AAR College Station, TX Sept. 25/26 2010
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2010, 12:54:46 AM »
nice equipment
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Offline sleepy Joe

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Re: AAR College Station, TX Sept. 25/26 2010
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2010, 01:14:58 AM »
Steve any updates on Sunday photos?
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