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Comment from NYT AS Article

Started by vmt193, July 30, 2010, 02:20:21 PM

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vmt193

July 30, 2010, 02:20:21 PM
The following is from one of the comments left about the recent NYT Appleseed article.

<<<I am an avid hunter and shooter, and I'm a member of a gun club. This group left pamphlets at the rifle range at our club. They are a disgrace to the American firearms culture. I have to admit that I am a progressive politically and moderate on gun rights, I can't stand the NRA. But still, the arguments their leaflets made were just clearly ridiculous, calling Chuck Schumer and I think Nancy Pelosi "fascist".

Erik Jensen
Mpls, MN>>>

Anybody know this guy? I'd really like to see one of these special Appleseed pamphlets!  >:(

colycat

#1
July 30, 2010, 02:23:39 PM
I believe the comments are from the SWAT reprint.  Most folks, especially if they are inclined to be offended,  think we wrote the piece, not the swat writer.
"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives everything its value."   T Paine

100

Josey Wales

#2
July 30, 2010, 03:00:10 PM

..That is the part that hurts the most, the comments!

..Heavy Cav says it well, "Well I just got thru reading all 113 comments.  It was obvious that alot of the "educated" people out there have a reading comprehension problem.

It does look like the NYT knows what buttons to push for their target readership.

Oh well, back to bailing!"

..These people that jump the gun, are not making informed decisions. They are going off on their emotions and filling in the blanks by making stuff up in the back of their guilty twisted minds..

..So we move on, to the type of person that is rational and stands with 2 feet on the ground, the type of person that thinks and inquires before making the harsh statements that influence other people, The thinkers not the stinkers...

..I know I have met a lot of outstanding American people at Appleseed Events, and the level of integrity that shines from our Instructor core is a Blessing.. So heads down, sleeves rolled up and keep it moving fellow ASers, I can bet there must be millions of American's just waiting to hear the news that Appleseed is here and making a difference every weekend in our Republic..

..To everyone who is out there working their tail off trying to make a difference with the Appleseed Project, I would personally like to thank you! You are all doing a fine job and you all inspier me to be a better man, Thank You All.....

....................STRENGTH & HONOR..........................JOSEY WALES............................


..to hell with them fellows, buzzards gotta eat same as worms..

Xeyed

#3
July 30, 2010, 03:27:47 PM
Just did a quick re read of the Swat article by Stewart Rhodes. The quote was taken out of context. Surprise.

At the end of the Article,  Under the heading Staying on Mission and talking about the goal of doubling the program,

It talks about  that  when   "the number of re-awakened riflemen is in the hundreds of thousands and then the millions,. If we can do that, we can give the anti self-defense Nazi's like Brady,Rosie O'Donnel and Chuck Schumer rabid foaming fits while restoring our heritage-- and having great fun doing it."

This is frustrating to all the good people, who have volunteered and sacrificed to build and grow the program to hear the crap being said.

We all know that it is not true.

But I do like the concept of giving those who oppose our second amendment rights, "rabid foaming fits while restoring our heritage-- and having great fun doing it."

Now back to mission, I'm going to work on my travel preparations for the First Appleseed event in Azusa CA next weekend.

And i will be smiling knowing that a successful event will have a positive impact on our country.



One Man awake, Awakens another. The second awakens  His next-door brother.
The three awake can rouse a town. By turning the whole place upside down.

The many awake can make such a fuss. It finally awakens the rest of us.
One man up, with dawn in his eyes, Surely then, Multiplies. Lawrence Trib

staplegund

#4
July 30, 2010, 04:33:24 PM
Internet trolls love to victimize people who have passionate viewpoints about anything.  Be aware and don't be sucked into their games on their turf.  Matt Schwartz wrote a good article on that subject; I recommend all AS'ers who frequent the internet to check it out.   From a broad perspective, I believe the publicity gained from the NYT will be beneficial, so long as we continue to do our part.  The more we do towards our goal, and the less time we spend on pet peeves, the better.  "Let those pet peeves run off your back like water off a duck"--saying from a wise old friend.
________________________________________________
Mischief springs from the power which the moneyed interest derives from a paper currency which they are able to control, from the multitude of corporations with exclusive privileges... which are employed altogether for their benefit. --Andrew Jackson

techres

#5
July 30, 2010, 04:40:15 PM
FYI this is the Official rebuttal from National:

QuoteDear Sirs:

It is with some sadness and disappointment that we at the Appleseed Project read the New York Times article this evening.  When the NYT originally asked us to host their media team in order to better understand what we do, we welcomed them.  When they wanted access to our students, programs, and instructors, we acquiesced without hesitation.

We did so because we have nothing to hide and no secrets in our program.  There is no reason whatsoever to restrict or fear an open and honest press.

We spoke with happiness and excitement about the stellar growth of our program over the last four years and our mission to bring every American to a greater sense of responsibility for our nation and to live out that feeling through civic involvement.

Frankly, we opened ourselves up and said our piece in trust that it would be conveyed by the press to its readers.

Sadly, today's article is not about us.  It is not about the Appleseed Project.   It is about militias and about anecdotal gun owners who are not members of our program.  The constant focus on the militia movement, the Tea Party, and Mr. Faire are at the center of this article and as a result this article is not about us, since those things are not, and never have been the Appleseed Project.

Frankly, there are among us those who feel that we have been poorly described and treated in this article, and I will return to that point in a moment.

The real tragedy here, however, is a complete failure of the press to see the real story: Why does Appleseed double every year?  Why are people of all races, genders and ideological affiliations drawn to the Appleseed Project?  What is going on here?

In its rush to cover the desired story, that is, scary militia groups, the NYT simply misses what is really important.  Therein lies its disservice to both its readers and our program.

Now, with respect to specific themes in the article that we feel incorrectly describe the Appleseed Project, let us simply address each in turn:

Inaccuracy #1: Appleseed is Militia

Appleseed is not a militia or interested in militia training.  Appleseed teaches only in individual marksmanship skills and the history of April 19th, 1775.  Appleseed does not provide training in military tactics or unit operations.  Rather, Appleseed uses marksmanship as a way for modern Americans to reconnect with the Founders through a shared, traditional American skill.  No more.  No less.  Appleseed does not see our government as an enemy or force of arms as a solution.  Rather, our enemies are laziness, ignorance and apathy.  Appleseed sees education and lived history as the means to get people to the real solution: Personal involvement in civic processes to ensure a better future for our nation.  Our ancestors fought so that we would not have to; all we have to do is get off our couches and get involved. 

Where militias offer a dark haven for people with concerns about an unwelcome future, Appleseed offers reason for hope and sees bright, happy days ahead.  That is the real reason we are not a militia nor associated with any such like-thinking group.

Inaccuracy #2: Appleseed is White (and thus Racist in some fashion by extension)

Appleseed is filled with students and instructors of all races, creeds, genders, and identities.  We make no distinction for color, religion, sexual preference, political beliefs or any other discriminatory category. Our program is comprised at all levels of all Americans, and we explicitly urge all Americans to come. We have no patience for those who would take this great nation and divide it up by race, or who would single out someone else for ridicule or derision.  There is no place in our cadre, among our students, or at our events for those who would put petty distinctions above unity and our joint past and future.

Inaccuracy #3: Appleseed is Anti-Government, Anti-Military, Anti-Law Enforcement

Appleseed is not anti-government, anti-military, or anti-law enforcement.  Among our volunteers are people who work in law enforcement, the military, the government and nearly every civilian trade. We teach students who work in law enforcement, the military, the government, and any civilian occupation precisely because we are all Americans and inheritors of the same heritage and history.   And together we must make our joint future.

Appleseed has zero tolerance for anti-government, anti-military, or anti-law enforcement attitudes, comments or advocates.  To the contrary, we offer free spots on our shooting lines for active duty military personnel and have been called onto military bases to teach troops deploying for overseas duty in combat theaters. Elected officials at any level of government are invited to participate in Appleseed without charge.  Finally, it is our goal to get each and every participant involved in the body politic, which means we are always clear that we hold our government, the government given us by the Founders, in the highest regard.

Soldiers, police officers, and government officials are not our enemies.  They are our neighbors, friends, and protectors.  At Appleseeds they are our honored guests.

Inaccuracy #4: Appleseed is Right Wing

Appleseed is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization with no interest in partisan politics.  Appleseed volunteers and students come from all political parties, economic classes, and ideologies.  We have no place for left wing, right wing, or any "wings" at all.  Our program could not function that way, nor do we want it to.

Our only interest in politics is with the political details that led to and followed from the events of April 19th, 1775. From our retelling of those events we find that students are often motivated to move into civic involvement themselves.  We do not frame the prospective involvement of our students and look forward to the day when we see two Appleseed graduates from opposite sides of the political spectrum running against each other in a national election.

Our goal is civic involvement across the ideological spectrum. 

Inaccuracy #5:  Appleseed has a Secret Plan

We wish we had a Secret Plan to get more people involved but we don't.  There is no inner group, no special level, no wizard behind the curtain.  There is only this: Our ancestors were left with two paths: submission or bloodshed.  They chose the latter so that we could be left with a third path: citizenship and civic participation.  To take this third path we must get off the couch, turn off the TV, and get involved in our communities.  Those who would blather about a "choice" between submission and bloodshed in modern American do not understand what American was meant to be, or is. 

Civic participation is not our secret plan.  It is our openly stated mission.

In conclusion, it is my hope that the NYT and its readers continue their search for authentic information about the Appleseed Project so that they learn for themselves exactly what the Appleseed Project is, and what it seeks to create: a more active body politic.  The current article is simply woefully lacking in that regard.

If anyone has any interest in continuing this conversation or attending an event, please be sure to contact us through our website http://www.appleseedinfo.org or via our email info@appleseedinfo.org and we will be happy to meet you.

We are open to all inquiries and harbor no ill-will toward the NYT or the author.    We are certain that what lies behind this unfortunate description of our program is a deep-seated concern about firearms, marksmanship training and heritage programs.  It is our stated mission to change that through the hard work of education and apparently we are right where we need to be.

Thank you for your time, and thanks to  your readership as well,


The Appleseed Project
National Branch

Please share it with anyone who contacts you about the article or as a response where you see the subject come up.  Just don't change the content when you do.

Thanks!

Appleseed: Bringing the Past into the Present to save our Future.

AFTERMATH

#6
July 30, 2010, 04:47:41 PM Last Edit: July 30, 2010, 04:54:47 PM by AFTERMATH
Quote from: vmt193 on July 30, 2010, 02:20:21 PM
The following is from one of the comments left about the recent NYT Appleseed article.

<<<I am an avid hunter and shooter, and I'm a member of a gun club. This group left pamphlets at the rifle range at our club. They are a disgrace to the American firearms culture. I have to admit that I am a progressive politically and moderate on gun rights, I can't stand the NRA. But still, the arguments their leaflets made were just clearly ridiculous, calling Chuck Schumer and I think Nancy Pelosi "fascist".

Erik Jensen
Mpls, MN>>>

Anybody know this guy? I'd really like to see one of these special Appleseed pamphlets!  >:(


Great!  That means we actually do have promotions running!  >Good work Appleseeders! O0
A disgrace to the American firearms culture???  Really?  What then is the American firearms culture?
Does he wish to 'moderate culture'?  Oh...  Perhaps, this is a 'man of means' that feels only the wealthy, privileged persons such as himself should own firearms.  Perhaps, he is under the impression, that the culture is that depicted by television and movies... 
Is he referring to the hunting culture, which is entirely different?  Well, I'd suppose, he considers himself a progressive moderate.
That means it's OK, for him to defame the opinions of persons with conflicting beliefs.

These are the type that hide themselves behind a veil of denial; pay no mind to them.
If anything good is to come of this, it shall be that those who previously held to a self-described 'moderacy' shall be forced to take sides.
Whether with us, or against us.  It doesn't matter.  Such is the way it is.  Funny part is; I myself reserve no qualms in teaching anyone a skill, even if it results in its ultimate use against me someday.  They've got that right as well as I. 

Hearts and minds, my friends, can only be won if they are to be had by those we wish to win.


Elk River!  This weekend!

Huzza! Huzza! Huzza!


Aftermath

p.s.  The previous is only one of Aftermath's unofficial rebuttals.  Take with a grain of salt, and do not allow consumption by children, and those who think like them.  %)
"We intend to produce men who are able to light a fire for Liberty in men's minds, and make them the finest rifle marksmanship Instructors on the planet." - Son of Martha

"Tyrants rise and fall, but tyranny lasts forever." -Me

[What kind of megalomaniac quotes himself?]

Rocket Man

#7
July 30, 2010, 05:45:35 PM
Nice response letter.  I certainly stand behind it.

I haven't run into any backlash yet and probably won't, but if I do I'll be sure to pass along the word. 

... if ever a mistaken complaisance leads them to sacrifice their privileges, or the well-meaning assertors of them, they will deserve bondage, and soon will find themselves in chains. -- Joseph Warren (anon)

Fred

#8
July 30, 2010, 06:55:54 PM

    Aftermath, his comment that he's "moderate on gun rights" about says all that needs to be said about him...
"Ready to eat dirt and sweat bore solvent?" - Ask me how to become an RWVA volunteer!

      "...but he that stands it now, deserves the thanks of man and woman alike..."   Paine

     "If you can read this without a silly British accent, thank a Revolutionary War veteran" - Anon.

     "We have it in our power to begin the world over again" - Thomas Paine

     What about it, do-nothings? You heard the man, jump on in...

sparks1

#9
July 30, 2010, 07:54:01 PM Last Edit: July 30, 2010, 07:59:38 PM by sparks1
Just read the article. I cannot, for the life of me , see why they did the part about the militia/felon with illegal guns. It has absolutely nothing to do with what we are about. Of course...I think logically and try not to let feelings sway my judgement.

 I understand that the NYT has an agenda and most of its readership will want to be able to point a finger at Appleseed and cry wolf. The article does state our mission succinctly and has plenty of Freds counter points to the off the wall militia thought process. If the militia part had been edited out I think it could have been a good piece for Appleseed. Which , I believe, is why the two were tied together...to put AS in a bad light along with anything related with guns.

 Well...Not many people I know read the NYT or care to. Lets start with winning them over to getting off the couch and being involved. Gradually they will help to get more off the couch.

 I ask at work (construction) breaks , "Who is your favorite quarterback, pitcher, sports player?" I invariably get lots of responses as the sports page is the first section read. I then ask, " Who is your Mayor, City Councilman, Congressman, Senator ?" Not so many responses to this one. I then ask, " Who, of the two groups I just asked about, makes decisions that directly affect your life? And shouldn't you then make a point to follow their career and voting record closer than some entertainer?"
Not alot of argument there...but still hear how boring govt. is. It's going to take alot of bailing...but I think our country is worth it.
Integrity is easier to keep, than to regain.

The Truth is that teamwork is at the heart of great accomplishment. 
(John Maxwell)

AFTERMATH

#10
July 30, 2010, 09:03:23 PM
QuoteI ask at work (construction) breaks , "Who is your favorite quarterback, pitcher, sports player?" I invariably get lots of responses as the sports page is the first section read. I then ask, " Who is your Mayor, City Councilman, Congressman, Senator ?" Not so many responses to this one. I then ask, " Who, of the two groups I just asked about, makes decisions that directly affect your life? And shouldn't you then make a point to follow their career and voting record closer than some entertainer?"
Not alot of argument there...but still hear how boring govt. is. It's going to take alot of bailing...but I think our country is worth it.

O'ha!
>:D

You could also give them a redemption question; 'Who's your favorite founding father?  And WHY?'
"We intend to produce men who are able to light a fire for Liberty in men's minds, and make them the finest rifle marksmanship Instructors on the planet." - Son of Martha

"Tyrants rise and fall, but tyranny lasts forever." -Me

[What kind of megalomaniac quotes himself?]

dart67eb

#11
July 30, 2010, 10:42:15 PM
If you're taking flak, you're over the target.
Ignorance may be bliss, but it's not a virtue.

AFTERMATH

#12
July 30, 2010, 10:44:21 PM
Quote from: dart67eb on July 30, 2010, 10:42:15 PM
If you're taking flak, you're over the target.

O'ha!

That's right!  We can't miss now!
"We intend to produce men who are able to light a fire for Liberty in men's minds, and make them the finest rifle marksmanship Instructors on the planet." - Son of Martha

"Tyrants rise and fall, but tyranny lasts forever." -Me

[What kind of megalomaniac quotes himself?]

AFTERMATH

#13
July 30, 2010, 10:49:07 PM
Quote from: vmt193 on July 30, 2010, 02:20:21 PM
The following is from one of the comments left about the recent NYT Appleseed article.

<<<I am an avid hunter and shooter, and I'm a member of a gun club. This group left pamphlets at the rifle range at our club. They are a disgrace to the American firearms culture. I have to admit that I am a progressive politically and moderate on gun rights, I can't stand the NRA. But still, the arguments their leaflets made were just clearly ridiculous, calling Chuck Schumer and I think Nancy Pelosi "fascist".

Erik Jensen
Mpls, MN>>>

Anybody know this guy? I'd really like to see one of these special Appleseed pamphlets!  >:(

Say, did anyone else catch the one from 'brian' Said he'd like to send us a whole bus-load of shooters!
He said something about testing our American-ness or something like that.
See, it's paying off already!
"We intend to produce men who are able to light a fire for Liberty in men's minds, and make them the finest rifle marksmanship Instructors on the planet." - Son of Martha

"Tyrants rise and fall, but tyranny lasts forever." -Me

[What kind of megalomaniac quotes himself?]

Scout

#14
July 31, 2010, 02:36:42 AM
Quote from: colycat on July 30, 2010, 02:23:39 PM
I believe the comments are from the SWAT reprint.  Most folks, especially if they are inclined to be offended,  think we wrote the piece, not the swat writer.

Hey, at least he didn't get one of the swinging "richard" SWAT reprints :) ;)
BattleRoadUSA.com

"Who wants Ice Cream?" Fred

Sixty seconds is way too long for a minute, I am cutting it down to thirty seven seconds- SoM

"You can shout it, you can preach it, but no matter how many times you repeat it, NEVER believe your own bullSh*t." (as told to me by Grin Reaper)

didactic

#15
August 01, 2010, 10:43:50 PM
I added a comment, not yet vetted by a moderator to get onto the web site, asking Brian to go ahead and send that bus-load, but please to have them pre-register so we can have enough instructors present to give good-quality instruction with a maximum of one-on-one coaching.

I kinda doubt he really has them lined up, or will do anything.  Cheap-shot keyboard commandos seldom actually DO anything.
"If not us, who?  If not now, when?"  Ronald W. Reagan

AFTERMATH

#16
August 01, 2010, 11:53:22 PM
Quote from: didactic on August 01, 2010, 10:43:50 PM
I added a comment, not yet vetted by a moderator to get onto the web site, asking Brian to go ahead and send that bus-load, but please to have them pre-register so we can have enough instructors present to give good-quality instruction with a maximum of one-on-one coaching.

I kinda doubt he really has them lined up, or will do anything.  Cheap-shot keyboard commandos seldom actually DO anything.

Yeah, I'd invited him to Elk River....  Didn't go through untill today!  A little late....
Heck, I even said we'd cover his fee.
"We intend to produce men who are able to light a fire for Liberty in men's minds, and make them the finest rifle marksmanship Instructors on the planet." - Son of Martha

"Tyrants rise and fall, but tyranny lasts forever." -Me

[What kind of megalomaniac quotes himself?]

henschman

#17
August 02, 2010, 03:05:44 AM
Well OF COURSE people who don't believe in civilian gun ownership are going to be against us!  It kind of goes with the territory.
"Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual."
-- Thomas Jefferson to Isaac H. Tiffany, 1819

willorith

#18
August 02, 2010, 11:24:31 AM
I was disappointed to see the Flag of the United States of America used as a prop in what was clearly a staged photograph. Misusing the Flag in that manner would not happen at any Appleseed I have been a part of. Photographing the Flag is fine. Wadding it up and putting it on a shooting mat with a rifle across it is inappropriate.

Willorith
We are but human.
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