Project Appleseed

Official 50' Indoor Rim Fire Only Shoot
Flier attached below

Range:  Hudson Falls Fish & Game Club

Address:  1420 Rte 196; Hudson Falls NY  12839

Website:  http://www.hffgc.org/about.htm

When:  February 13 & 14, 2010

Range Fee:  $5.00 per person per day

Camping available:  Overnight camping in heated clubhouse.

Hotels:
  Landmark Motor Inn
  1418 U.S. 9, S Glens Falls, NY
  (518) 793-3441‎

  Historic Inn of Fort Edward
  215 Broadway Street, Fort Edward, NY
  (518) 747-0778‎

  Quality Inn
  547 Aviation Road, Glens Falls, NY
  (518) 793-3800‎

  Many other regional and chain hotels & motels in area - Google "hotels near Hudson Falls NY"

Directions:  From points North, West & South:  From Adirondack Northway (I-87) take Exit 17N onto US 9 North,  Appx 1.2 miles to NY 197, RIGHT @ traffic light [Hess Station] onto 197.  Appx 4.7 miles on 197 to traffic light, turn LEFT onto  US 4.  Appx 2.4 miles on 4 to RIGHT onto NY 196/Maple Street.   On 196 will come to traffic light (Cumberland Farms on L), go straight over bridges, appx. 1.5 miles to Hudson Falls Fish and Game Club on RIGHT: @ green and white sign turn right into club driveway, follow +/- 200 yds.  Park in front of club building.

From points East:   US 7 to Exit 4 (Depot St/VT11 & 30).  Turn east toward Manchester Center, appx 1.5 mi.  Continue on VT 30N  appx. 21 mi then left onto VT 149W.  VT 149 becomes NY 149/E Main St.  Continue on 149 through Granville, bearing left on 149/Quaker St.; after .8 mi 149 turns sharp right (w/ County Rd 146 on left).  Continue west on 149 appx 7.6 mi, then left onto NY 40S/149W.  Continue on 40S appx 1.6 mi, then right onto NY 196W.  Continue on 196 appx 7.4 mi to HF F&G.  Turn left into drive @ green/white sign, proceed +/- 200 yds and park in front of club building.

GPS:  43.305448,-73.530091

State Laws to be aware of:  See http://www.nysrpa.org/nygunlaws.htm

Misc:
  This is a 50' indoor Appleseed shoot for rim-fire rifles ONLY.  Attendance will be limited to 16 shooters, platooning in groups of eight each between
  the firing line and classroom instruction for each string of fire.

  Many nearby fast food restaurants, sub & pizza shops, etc.  Meals can be ordered-in, or bring your own.

  Overnight camping in the clubhouse will be available.  Clubhouse contains full kitchen facilities.

  Bathrooms are available without showers.

For More Information:  PM to B9 on the fourm, email NY@APPLESEEDINFO.ORG or call 607-727-9282

Registration link: http://www.eventbrite.com/event/524050449

Ahem.  Lot's of IIT's signed up.  Is there a local SB in the works?

I'm 10+ hours away & thus somewhat iffy(ish) due to weather whims.

Quote from: B9 on January 28, 2010, 09:07:32 AM50 foot targets are not available from RWVA in the shoot box. We will need to print own own. QDAQTs, Redcoats, squares etc.
If we all print some it will lighten the load.

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=9833.0

I have Red Coats, QDAQTs, Squares and Classifiaction/Promo targets, all reduced to 50 ft.  All but the Red Coats can be printed on a B&W laser printer.

1.  With a total of 16 shooters, how many total of each target will be required?
2.  The reduced distance squares is just that - no sight adjustment info, Appleseed info, etc.  I may have the ability to edit this PDF file to include additional information.
3.  We need someone with some time and math skills to adjust the 'click info' for the squares target 50 ft targets.  We'll need this for the IMC training segment.

Targets attached...

I will begin printing AQTs - 100 for now.  If I receive no further feedback on the subject of mods to the squares I will print 100 of them by the end of the upcoming weekend.

The 4 PDF files listed above I will have enough copies on white paper for Febuary for 16 shooters for several COF's

Quote from: Another D.O.M. on January 28, 2010, 07:36:28 PM

1.  With a total of 16 shooters, how many total of each target will be required?
2.  The reduced distance squares is just that - no sight adjustment info, Appleseed info, etc.  I may have the ability to edit this PDF file to include additional information.
3.  We need someone with some time and math skills to adjust the 'click info' for the squares target 50 ft targets.  We'll need this for the IMC training segment.

If the squares on a "reduced squares target" are the proper size (50/82 = 0.61, or 50/75 = 0.67)" with four grid squares per side, then MOA -> click is the same (no new math).  The discussion about "what is an MOA" that precedes shouldn't be too much more awkward than normal.  The black squares on the PDF look to be about 0.5".  The redcoats could be used in a pinch, but are really too large.

The promo target & 50' qdaqt targets are fine; I'll make up a squares and a redcoat and post them here.  Stay tuned.

Spanner, thank you, will hold production on those two targets.
                    :bow:

Here are the squares.  The redcoats will be a little longer (tomorrow probably).

I'll have the redcoats covered; will do 100 in groups of 20 so as not to empty the colored ink reservoirs...
mad
nyrasgt

In any event, here are two 50' scaled redcoat targets, @ two targets per sheet.  The letter sized targets are a few % small(ish... no big whoop); the targets on the legal sized paper are scaled correctly (25m to 50').

kudos to anyone who can print these & many thanks!

Thanks a bunch to all of you for helping out with this!

I have around 150 QDAQTs printed at home.  I thought we might need about 320, 16 shooters @ 20 AQTs each (I know that's a bit high considering the platooning of shooters, but better to have them.  Whatever is left over will be used in future indoor shoots...

Quote from: R1sgx2 on January 28, 2010, 11:27:54 PM
The 4 PDF files listed above I will have enough copies on white paper for Febuary for 16 shooters for several COF's

Thanks Mark!  That will be a big help.

Quote from: nyrasgt on January 29, 2010, 09:55:04 AMI'll have the redcoats covered; will do 100 in groups of 20 so as not to empty the colored ink reservoirs...
mad
nyrasgt

Thanks to you as well Mark.  These color ones are the biggest help of all, they're about $1.25 each at Staples.

Quote from: Spanner on January 29, 2010, 12:23:33 AMHere are the squares.  The redcoats will be a little longer (tomorrow probably).

These look fantastic!  And thanks for stating what I should have already known regarding IMC.  Sometimes (OK, a lot of times) my brain wants
     to make more of something than is necessary...

Quote from: Spanner on January 29, 2010, 12:42:24 PMIn any event, here are two 50' scaled redcoat targets, @ two targets per sheet.  The letter sized targets are a few % small(ish... no big whoop); the targets on the legal sized paper are scaled correctly (25m to 50').

kudos to anyone who can print these & many thanks!

Very nice!  Mark D, can you do these on the legal paper?  And do you have access to a legal-sized paper cutter to chop 'em in half?

    Ed is having the shoot box sent to my house.  I have also deleted the Red Coats and Squares attachments from my original post to eliminate
    confusion.  I'll begin printing the new squares tonight - 100 should be more than enough.

    How many of the Promo Targets do you think we should have on hand - a pack of 100?

    Thanks again to everyone for helping to make this a smooth and painless process!

ADOM, the shoot box is going to your work address to save shipping.


You can drool on the Red and Green hats in the box. Maybe even try one on in private.

Quote from: B9 on January 29, 2010, 03:03:58 PMADOM, the shoot box is going to your work address to save shipping.

That's cool - every penny saved helps spread the word.  If you can, give me a heads-up when Bulkhead ships it out so I can keep track of the package.

QuoteYou drool on the Red and Green hats in the box. Maybe even try one on in private.

I may just do that.  Sounds like Stoner will be leaving w/ one or two new colors.  Good thing too, 'cause he and I will be working a shoot at Manheim PA on March 20 & 21 that has no SB yet.

ALREADY PRINTED:

200 target squares
200 50 foot AQT free sample
250 50 foot ADT

I can print some red coats looks like we are duplicating efferts on printing targets.
I will not print red coats unless instructed, I can print them on legal size paper.
Who ever is lead let me know.

Quote from: R1sgx2 on January 29, 2010, 06:24:29 PM
ALREADY PRINTED:

200 target squares
200 50 foot AQT free sample
250 50 foot ADT

I can print some red coats looks like we are duplicating efferts on printing targets.
I will not print red coats unless instructed, I can print them on legal size paper.
Who ever is lead let me know.

That's fantastic!  That will cover us for Squares, Promos & QDAQTs.  Mark D has printed over a hundred Red Coats on letter-sized paper, but he says they're too small.  Can you print 100 sheets of RedCoats on
     legal-sized paper?  If so, that will be more than enough targets for this shoot.

     Does anyone have access to a legal-sized paper cutter to halve them?

     Much thanks again to everyone for putting this together so quickly & smoothly!

I think you are asking for 50 copies which is 100 targets when cut in half, will do. Is there a shoot boss yet, no one on schedule spread sheet. Thinking out load.

Quote from: R1sgx2 on January 29, 2010, 11:22:22 PMI think you are asking for 50 copies which is 100 targets when cut in half, will do.

Yes, that will be perfect.  Thanx!

QuoteIs there a shoot boss yet, no one on schedule spread sheet. Thinking out load.

Nothing official at this point.  I guess Mark D had some indication from B9 that he and Spanner will split the duties.  Spanner has a 10 hour drive from W.Va and was concerned that if he runs into bad weather it could mean he isn't there by 7 AM on Saturday.  Nickle hasn't thrown in on this one, so I'm guessing he's not available.  kDan (NYC) and crak (Boston) both had other commitments.  Buzzworth (VT) hasn't chimed in either, so I'm guessing he is also unavailable.  As you say, just thinking out loud - I cannot speak officially for anyone but myself, and they won't let me SB yet.

The first NY shoot of 2010 is coming quick.

I just realized somethings about our Instructor crew.

Is it true we have 4 Sergeants, 3 Marks, and 1 of the 2 NY female Instructors.

It would appear, that it will be a very good shoot, with all the talent that will be there, Am I to understand that this is a first AS to be shot indoors?

Quote from: sgtrock on February 09, 2010, 08:59:35 PM
It would appear, that it will be a very good shoot, with all the talent that will be there, Am I to understand that this is a first AS to be shot indoors?

First NY indoor AS. Not sure if first ever.

Quote from: B9 on February 09, 2010, 09:08:01 PMFirst NY indoor AS. Not sure if first ever.

If I'm not mistaken there has been at least one to the east of us somewhere.  I don't recall the specifics off-hand.

     While this may be the first indoor 50' shoot in NY, it certainly won't be the last.  Part of the game plan nyrasgt and myself have been cooking up is three or more clubs in the Capital District/Saratoga region holding one or two per winter.  And Burlington Flats can realistically platoon two groups of six shooters each between their indoor range and the meeting room.  This shoot should teach us all a lot about holding indoor shoots.  By next year at this time there's no reason we can't run Appleseeds year-round in NY.

Quote from: Spanner on January 28, 2010, 11:44:14 PM

Quote from: Another D.O.M. on January 28, 2010, 07:36:28 PM
3.  We need someone with some time and math skills to adjust the 'click info' for the squares target 50 ft targets.  We'll need this for the IMC training segment.

If the squares on a "reduced squares target" are the proper size (50/82 = 0.61, or 50/75 = 0.67)" with four grid squares per side, then MOA -> click is the same (no new math).  The discussion about "what is an MOA" that precedes shouldn't be too much more awkward than normal.

Suggestion for teaching IMC at 50 feet:

3 feet = 1 yard, so 300 feet = 100 yards. This range is 50 feet; 300 feet / 50 feet = 30 / 5 = 6; 50 feet is 1/6 the distance of 300 feet.
1 MOA is 1 Inch per 100 yards, since 100 yards = 300 feet, then 1 MOA is 1 Inch per 300 feet.
What is 1 MOA at 50 feet? Since 50 feet is 1/6 of 300 feet, 1 MOA is 1/6 Inch per 50 feet, and 6 MOA is 1 inch.
At 50 feet, there are 6 MOA/inch.

Inches: measure how many Inches the POI needs to be moved at 50 feet, for example if the POI is 1 1/2" to the right of the center of the target, then the POI needs to be moved 1.5" left.
Minutes: to convert 1.5" to Minutes, multiply 1.5" by 6 MOA/inch; 1.5" x 6 MOA/inch = 9 MOA.
Clicks: multiply 9 MOA by rifle sight's click per MOA setting. For example, with a scope at 4 clicks per MOA, 9 MOA x 4 cllicks/MOA = 36 clicks.
The difference between 25 meters and 50 feet IMC is that at 25 meters, you multiply Inches by 4 MOA/inch (at 25 meters) while at 50 feet, you multiply Inches by 6 MOA/inch (at 50 feet)

At 50 feet, 1 MOA = 1/6" = 0.17". The small grid square conveniently measures 1/6" per side, or 1 MOA.
The Rifleman standard is 4 MOA, so the black square is made of 4 small grid squares per side, or 4/6" = 2/3" = 0.67", or 4 MOA per side.

Hope this helps!

Quote from: Big H on February 09, 2010, 11:57:08 PMSuggestion for teaching IMC at 50 feet:

3 feet = 1 yard, so 300 feet = 100 yards. This range is 50 feet; 300 feet / 50 feet = 30 / 5 = 6; 50 feet is 1/6 the distance of 300 feet.
1 MOA is 1 Inch per 100 yards, since 100 yards = 300 feet, then 1 MOA is 1 Inch per 300 feet.
What is 1 MOA at 50 feet? Since 50 feet is 1/6 of 300 feet, 1 MOA is 1/6 Inch per 50 feet, and 6 MOA is 1 inch.
At 50 feet, there are 6 MOA/inch.

Inches: measure how many Inches the POI needs to be moved at 50 feet, for example if the POI is 1 1/2" to the right of the center of the target, then the POI needs to be moved 1.5" left.
Minutes: to convert 1.5" to Minutes, multiply 1.5" by 6 MOA/inch; 1.5" x 6 MOA/inch = 9 MOA.
Clicks: multiply 9 MOA by rifle sight's click per MOA setting. For example, with a scope at 4 clicks per MOA, 9 MOA x 4 cllicks/MOA = 36 clicks.
The difference between 25 meters and 50 feet IMC is that at 25 meters, you multiply Inches by 4 MOA/inch (at 25 meters) while at 50 feet, you multiply Inches by 6 MOA/inch (at 50 feet)

At 50 feet, 1 MOA = 1/6" = 0.17". The small grid square conveniently measures 1/6" per side, or 1 MOA.
The Rifleman standard is 4 MOA, so the black square is made of 4 small grid squares per side, or 4/6" = 2/3" = 0.67", or 4 MOA per side.

Hope this helps!

In fact, it does!   Thank you, neighbor!

Quote from: B9 on February 09, 2010, 07:08:01 PMIs it true we have 4 Sergeants, 3 Marks, and 1 of the 2 NY female Instructors.

This is, indeed, true.  Cannot let the folks in CA get all of the press, can we?

Quote from: Another D.O.M. on February 10, 2010, 12:56:06 AM

Quote from: B9 on February 09, 2010, 07:08:01 PMIs it true we have 4 Sergeants, 3 Marks, and 1 of the 2 NY female Instructors.

This is, indeed, true.  Cannot let the folks in CA get all of the press, can we?

And, I did not mention also our youngest Instructor. 

All of the IITs need to demo IMC at some point this weekend. Picked a good IBC follow up shoot for that.

She turned 18 on Jan 28

With 2 squads and this fine Cadre of instructors, if the instructors were divided between squad,  this way while one squad is on the line, the second squad could be doing hip pocket training. This would capitalize on the time running two lines verse needed training. Also build the instructor in teaching small group instruction.
The More Exposure Comes More Composure.  
Sunday could switch instructor to other squad (more exposure).
Not sure if there is a class room area that would permit this.

Was I thinking out loud again. Inside / outside words, gotta stop that.

I can not be on the ground Friday night, does anyone know what time the building will be open on Saturday Morning? Please PM

Seeing who's going to be on board this weekend, does this mean the SC and A/SC will be on the ground? SWEET.   

I will have targets / 3 or 4 10/22 loaners with tech 200 sights and a wooden training rifle painted blue, will mount lazer to allow demo of breathing etc.
Team New York mounting up and moving out.

Squads are good idea. Thinking to have both squads present during lead up and, Redcoat and prone/SHF demo, then break off with 1st squad going into sighters while second get intense prone/SHF demos then switch.

Some of this depends on if Spanner can dig himself out of his mountain bunker and make it up. If he can not we need some real attension to flow as PCs are important but well run shoot more so.

There has yet to be such a "tricky" shoot before in NY and yet to have a more quailified group of IITs all in one place. Might start a warp in space/time.

It'll work just fine, squads are great, with the redundancy that will be happening in the information flow they [the students] will get alot out of it, as will we, setting the standard is a good thing.
   sgtrock

Quote from: R1sgx2 on February 10, 2010, 10:10:50 AMI can not be on the ground Friday night, does anyone know what time the building will be open on Saturday Morning? Please PM

PM on the way...

Bah - we've lost my niece Becca.  Some sort of stomach bug (possibly exaggerated by a bad case of nerves).

Darned kids...