Project Appleseed

Let it wear.  It does no harm flaking off with use.  Patchiness isn't ugly- it's inability to hit that's ugly.   

I've read that the 10/22 receivers are (even the SS guns have aluminum receivers) painted. 

If the flakes get in the works and you think it could be a problem then remove the paint from the interior and just keep it oiled so it doesn't corrode on you.  If not, don't worry about it, after all, being on the inside doesn't affect the appearance of the rifle.

   Hey, V!  I'll save you the trouble of searching the last 700 posts: 

   The newer receivers, (Last ten years or so), are painted inside. This paint is on the bearing surface where the bolt rides along the "roof" of the receiver and does flake off. When mixed with certain solvents and lubricants it becomes a nice, sticky goo. (Read: FTF, FTE, etc)

  The fix?  Just strip the inside of the receiver along the roof. If the surface is a little rough, just polish it. I've had nary a problem with any of mine after doing such. 

   Guy: Do you think there's anything to that post #? 

   Now, come on 35!  35, 35, 35!  Come on 35! 

 

My "stainless" receiver did not come with any paint on the inside as far as I can tell.....

Quote from: fepowered on December 09, 2008, 06:48:34 PM
My "stainless" receiver did not come with any paint on the inside as far as I can tell.....

Oh c'mon... you were just going for 35 with that reply.... c'mon, be honest...

This is a real poor man's version of FIRST!

I know, LAST!

  Come on 35!   35, 35, 35!  Come on 35!

Quote from: Junior Birdman on November 11, 2008, 10:56:41 AM
  Dangit!  I wanted to start page 34!  Oh well, there's always page 35....or 36.....or 132,691

  Congrats on starting page 34 Sav, you'll like having that LTR handy when you get to the shoots. Mine just made another Rifleman this past weekend. (I think that technically, I get 17% credit for this)

Hey JB,

I give you close to 17% credit for my Rifleman score. I used my own Rifle, so you only get the credit for your Instruction.

I received the Tech-Sites for the LTR and will have it ready for the Scouts this coming weekend at the Piru Appleseed.

BTW you should be getting really close to 35. 

~SS

Quote from: Francis Marion on December 08, 2008, 03:19:35 AM
Let it wear.  It does no harm flaking off with use.  Patchiness isn't ugly- it's inability to hit that's ugly.   

At My first AS I would wipe down my LTR  constantly ... every time dust or grass would get on it. And, if it got a scratch on it, that was the end of the world. After all, take care of your LTR, it will take care of you.  But,

I have since learned much about rifles.  That scratch just gives it character, reminds me of what we've been through together.  For the 10/22 I have since acquired the stainless steel bbl.  And, yes, it was painted with some old gray paint that turned to goo while cleaning.  I just kept cleaning and polishing until it is all gone.  The paint seemed to impede smooth operation with the bolt.  Now all are polished, dry, and work quite smoothly.  It is a pleasure to shoot now. 

For the newbies, take advantage of the knowledge base at an AS event.  Ask questions about cleaning.  I think the turning point for me was when Scout showed me how to pull the lower off my 10/22 and clean it correctly.  Since then I have completely disassembled the LTR down to the trigger springs, sear, etc.  Although there are a few little tricks to getting it back together it is not difficult. 

And, I don't mind dust and grass ... or scratches.
Now, if I could just fix that inability to hit! 

POP

 

Quote from: V on December 09, 2008, 07:32:15 PM
Oh c'mon... you were just going for 35 with that reply.... c'mon, be honest...

No, Really!!

Not a spec of paint....

   Come on 35.........

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=3755.0



Edited to add this below before someone thinks I'm a sourpuss:

Just teasin', JB.  Notice the  at the end. (Actually I was tryin' to beatcha to 35 myself.  )

Quote from: Junior Birdman on December 10, 2008, 12:00:47 AM
   Come on 35.........

Nope.  You missed it.

Elvis has left the building.

ummmmm . . . and we have three LTRs now.

DADFRIGGINGUMMIT! 

OK, so, while JB is running up his post count  , I'll make a valuable post concerning LTRs...

Here is a recap of what I think you should buy and what I think you should/could do to a 10/22 to make it a great LTR...

What you should do (if you're comfortable with amateur gunsmithing):
Modify your factory bolt release (saves about $15)
Stone the hammer to reduce creep and lighten the pull a little (saves $30)
De-burr and clean up internals (most are stamped and have a rough edge)
Chamfer the bolt (radius the lower corner, under the notch for the bolt stop; it increases the lever arm on the hammer as well as lightening the weight of the bolt, improving reliability)
(incidentally, great guidance for all of the above mods can be found on www.rimfirecentral.com )

What you should buy (and install yourself, of course...if you're comfortable with it)
Tech-Sights (I HIGHLY recommend the TSR-100s, as the only problems I've seen with elevation have been on the -200s)
DPMS windage knob for AR
Tech-Sights tool (get 2 or 3 of them...you'll end up loaning them out)
Loop sling and sling studs that screw into the WOOD on the stock (I really think that many problems with the barrel bands are due to folks that attach their sling using it instead of drilling into the stock and soundly mounting them there)
Extended mag release (newer 10/22s have a great one, but us with older ones need the upgrade)
Bolt buffer (there are about eleventy-billion of them on the market, find one you like and use it.  I've heard of getting nylon bolts that work...haven't tried that yet)

'Nice to haves'...
I like having a flash suppressor on my LTR, as it helps lock in the Tech-Sights front post...and I like the look.
VQ or Power Custom extractor (some have had problems extracting with factory stuff if its old)
A spare parts kit can be built from factory 10/22 parts pretty cheaply:
Recoil spring/guide rod/handle assembly
Extractor plunger
Extractor spring
Extractor (keep your factory one if you upgrade)
Multiple magazines...I like the factory ones, due to reliability.  I'm going to try a mod that JB suggested (don't know where it came from, but I heard it from him at the Eight-OH-Eight RBC) and epoxy on a brass cabinet knob to the bottom of the factory mag to add weight and give a purchase to pull it free...I had some problems extracting mags from my Hogue stocked 10/22 this summer...lesson learned.

Now, the biggest problem with 10/22s (or any autoloading rimfire, for that matter) is that they can be picky with ammo...finding what your rifle likes is not usually a cheap proposition.  Unfortunately, ammo manufacturers are getting away from 'brick' ammo sales and forcing retailers to sell by the box instead.  Bulk ammo is still available, but it tends to be less accurate and consistent.  We're looking for 3-4 moa, so we're not really uber-precise, but repeatability is very nice.  Nothing really to add, except to figure out what your rifle likes and stock up on it.  My 'squirrel gun' (the VQ-barreled, scoped 10/22 that I've had forever) likes the subsonic ammo and works well with it after my mods.  My LTR happens to like the Remington Golden Bullet value pack (525 rds, I think I got it at Wally World).  Winchester Super-X 40grn HP or Round nose works well, but you can't get them in bulk anymore...so they're likely out.

The other major problem with 10/22s is the 'bug'...you get bitten and want to modify like crazy...which is cool, if you want a fun range toy.  LTRs should be simulators of your battle rifle, so IMHO, I think you should avoid match hammers and barrels, exotic stocks and optics and such.  Reliability problems abound with the 'Bentz' chamber on higher dollar barrels, as well as issues with extracting unfired rounds.  Stoning the hammer to reduce the creep (a lot) and pull (a little) is all that is needed for an LTR; the factory barrel is MORE than adequate for our uses, and the factory stock can be easily shortened or lengthened as needed for loaner LTRs.

Well, enough 'back on track' stuff...JB, you may continue...

MCKNBRD,

Now *that's* a useful post.

I haven't done all of that yet.  Looks like I have some work to do on my three LTRs.

(Even though it's useful, it's not nearly as entertaining as JB's).

I found a device on Gunbroker that will take care of the barrel sag problem on some 10/22s, The device takes the place of the barrel block and has a set screw that pushes up on the barrel so your front sight doesn't have to be all the way up. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=118256107 I've ordered a couple for my 10/22s. 

I'd be afraid anything on the barrel out there (between the barrel and the wood) might affect groups as the rifle is worked through an AQT.  A .22 rimfire might not get hot enough to begin putting pressure on the barrel so it might not be an issue.

My 10/22, with Tech Sights was shooting so far to the right that my rear sight was almost touching the sight frame/base on the left side.  The 10/22 barrel (once the action is removed from the stock) can be pulled out of the receiver by removing those two allen head screws under the barrel that screw into the receiver.  I cut a shim (sort of cresent moon shaped) out of a diet pepsi can and slipped it between the barrel and the receiver on the right side and first tightened down the left side screw followed by the right sight scew.  The "pulled" the barrel to the left enough that I could just about center my rear sight in the base.  Didn't seem to affect the feeding/extraction/ejection at all.  The shim is invisible, the barrel is tight against the receiver.

If mine was shooting high or low I'd try the same thing.  Wonder if some of them shoot low because the two bolts clamping  the barrel to the receiver are on the bottom of the barrel/receiver?  A little extra "unintended clearance" in the receiver might give the barrel enough slop room to allow the bolts to "pull" it down when clamped in.  Just a thought.

I have the recoil buffers in all my 10/22s <

Finally mounted my dedicated .22 upper to my Fulton Armory lower; $300- for an assembled lower WITH a trigger job is one hell of a deal!  Picked up an M68 CCO (red dot sight) clone at the local airsoft store - and am REALLY looking forward to putting this girl through her paces!

Get yerself some really good performance,
Save the grief and heartache of accessorizing
relieve yourself of the tinkering
and save some real money
Save RWVA about 65 Gazillion MB on the server too
Buy yourself a Marlin 795.

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=4148.0

  I'll just say this. I've had 10/22s for nearly 30 years. My own LTR has more than 6000 rounds through it, (probably just short of 10,000 rounds, come to think of it now), and has helped a few folks make Rifleman. 

   I've never put a lot of money in them because they are trainers. I've never put in any aftermarket extractors, bolts, firing pins, triggers, etc, and I've never had any problems with FTF, FTE, Fail to Anything. I mounted Tech Sights because it makes it more Appleseed Friendly. (The thing has a LOT of different shooters and gets sight changes very often. The Ruger sights don't lend themselves to that!  )

   I've never worried about my tech sights being off center to the left or right, since they shoot 2 moa groups right where they're supposed to. I've never worried about the barrel drooping because , well, see the last sentence. Basically, it's a simple rifle which works day in and day out and will perform well beyond anything required of it by Appleseed standards.

  I do understand tinkering. I love to tinker and experiment with rifles too. But when it comes down to it, the 10/22, right out of the box, will do just what we want it to: Train marksmen.  If you want to tinker, go ahead, it's fun. Is any of this stuff really needed to make the rifle train Riflemen? Nah, not really.

   If you want to buy a different kind of rifle and put it on the line for others to shoot, have at it! I can guarantee you that it'll perform better than the shooter will ever shoot. Put on a scope, tech sights, modify the bolt, crown, trigger or anything else you want. The main thing is to get rifles out there on the line putting rounds downrange and hammering out Riflemen.

   This thread has about 785,394 posts now, many of which are repeats, many of which are multilple repeats. Many are "Why I hate the 10/22" posts, others are "Why Your Rifle Sux and How to Fix It" posts. But the truth is that every time I go to an Appleseed, I see many of the 10/22s on the line, shooting, building skills, and if they're cleaned more than once a lifetime or so, FUNCTIONING properly.  (And that seems to go for ANY rifle for some reason....hmmmm)

    Get an extra rifle or two. Take them to an Appleseed. Loan them to other shootrs to build the skills. That is what LTRs are about. Each kind of rifle on the line has good and not so good things about it. But in the end that's not what matters.  JB
   

 

Quote from: Junior Birdman on December 20, 2008, 01:42:43 PM
    If you want to buy a different kind of rifle and put it on the line for others to shoot, have at it! I can guarantee you that it'll perform better than the shooter will ever shoot. Put on a scope, tech sights, modify the bolt, crown, trigger or anything else you want. The main thing is to get rifles out there on the line putting rounds downrange and hammering out Riflemen.

Agreed.

Run whatcha brung.

Get off the couch, come shoot, and get involved.  (Bail, Baby, Bail!)

JB summed it up nicely; talking hardware is fun.  Modding and tinkering with 10/22s (or any gun, for that matter) is fun.  I've heard it at Appleseed, I've heard it in the military; professionals and experts talk software.  We know that its the loose nut behind the trigger that makes the hole go where it needs to, whether at 25 yards, 250, 500, or beyond.  Amateurs talk hardware; which gun is better for this or that or what super-tacticool accessory gadget that I need on my rig to make it effective against mutant zombie monkeys that are in cahoots with rabid, flesh-eating squirrels or something.

We have fun with what you would like to have on your LTR.  We know, though, when it comes down to it, a decent rifle with good sights and a cool, competent operator on its trigger is more effective than 15lbs worth of tacticool lightweight s**t hanging off of the weapon.

Besides, we know that a suppressed .22LR is the ultimate zombie gun. 

Amen Birdman,
My LTR, sling swivels, sling, xtra mags, mag release, bolt release mod, tech sights and hammer mod totals out at less than $350.00 complete. Thats just a little more than what I'd have spent on ammo for my MBR at my first AS. It also gives me a cheap practice platform. Once I can shoot Rifleman with it, I'll build another as a loaner and shoot Saturday part of an AS with LTR and Sunday with MBR. Ammo savings will also help to afford taking a week off to attend a boot camp.
So far about 700 rds of Federal Automatch & Champion through it w/o malfunction. Let it run all weekend at AS w/o cleaning just to see if it would. Only problem front tech sight loosened up then later fell off (after 2nd round of blue loctite). Red stuff fixed problem.
G

Capt, excuse me, but once you can shoot Rifleman with it,
we need you instructing and turning out more Riflemen

Get to the shoot the night before and enjoy a little IPT.

Sorry.

IPT:  Instructor Play Time

PJ,
That is the goal.
G

  I'm feeling lucky........come on 36......36, 36, 36.......come on 36!

JB,
Trying to help the cause here....  Found a good price on the Marlin 795s.  Extra mags too.  Do they work / function as an LTR as well as 10/22 at an AS?  If so, I might pick up a couple to set up as loaners.

EEL