Project Appleseed

OK folks,
More research input wanted.

I looked over the available LTR candidates:
Semi 22's
Detachable magazines
capable of being worked to sim a big gun
ergonomic
features
accuracy as delivered
usability out of the box

I decided on the 795 Marlin as the best value you could get.
Commonly available at retail for $127. Has a usable trigger (easily made into a good trigger) 10 shot box mag easily available at reasonable price and an easy to operate bolt release. OOB accuracy was better than I could shoot, less than 3/8" at 25 yards with every one of the 6 brands tested.

If you have one, or have used one, tell me what you think.
I want the information for a possible AS promotion. 
I'll take comments from anyone that has used one.

Thank you

Sam

A friend of mine who' son my daughter is working with just recently bought one based on the price factor.  The things I noticed about it are:

1 - Typical of Marlin 22's, the stock sites are not worth the metal they are made of.  After market sights will require drill and tap to add.

2 - The mags fit tight and do not drop free.  This could probably be fixed as well.

3 - Typical of Marlin 22's.  Was very accurate.

4 - The synthetic stock is extremely cheap feeling.  But weight was a factor in the decision as my friend's son is only 8.

5 - Trigger was decent.

Of the 22's I currently have: 3 10/22 LTRs; 1 Marlin 60; and a Remington 597, I find the 10/22 best suited.  597 next best as after maket stuff is becoming more prevalent.  Receiver is already drilled and tapped and also accepts 22 style scope mounts without adding a rail.  Mags drop free every time.  Stock sights are relatively easy to adjust.  Bolt release is as expected with centerfire and locks back.

Those are my thoughts.

WRWIII

I haven't used one, but I'll stick to my Rugers.

Everything is available aftermarket, the mags drop free, and after a few simple modifications, they work well.

BTW a little birdie from Tech-Sight told me that there will be a NO GUNSMITHING model for the 60/795 available in about a month.

I like the fact that the 795it does the job without all those fancy and expensive mods.

Tale of an Appleseed Marlin.  After my first Appleseed I was looking around for an autoloader .22 Lr. I settled on a cheap, used, marlin 795. It had a wood stock and came from the factory with all of the features that folks were addin' to their 10-22s. An easy as pie mag release, a simple bolt release, a generous charging handle, accurate barrel and a trigger that was easily lightened.  I paid forty bucks for it at a pawnshop.  I put a cheap scope on cheap rings that clamp to the dovetail. I made Rifleman with that little set up. Other folks did too.

This fall I visited my Mother in between a couple of Appleseeds.  A lifelong shooter,she really wanted to earn a Riflemans patch.  We went out a few times to practice. Her 10-22 had a little too much length of pull for good sling use, so I had her use my Marlin. She fell in love with it, she sent her husband and I to town to buy a decent scope and mounts for it. With a nice BSA scope (the scope cost more than two times what I paid for the rifle) that little rifle would group 'em on a dime every time. 

What do you do when the person that gave you life and some of your finest firearms falls in love with your forty dollar pawnshop rifle?
Yep, it stayed at moms place and I brought home her Ruger Walmart special.  Now don't get me wrong, the Ruger is a pretty little rifle. If you keep the one screw that holds the whole thing together tightened up it shoots well enough. Length of pull is too much for a lot of folks. And the manual of arms is a little tricky ( I won't be adding bolt release extenders and magazine release thingies) but it's a good little .22.     

But I do kinda miss my ol' Marlin.

The Mossberg 702 plinkster is a very similar rifle. Very, very similar. The trigger is not quite as nice and the length of pull on the plastic stock is too much for most folks. I believe that the Mossberg is just a relabeled Magtech 70-22.

Wheeler44 

Just took ours out yesterday! Thanks for the heads up at Sportsman's Warehouse SamD. I bought it after we talked!

Shot Federal Bulk, Winchester Bulk and Remy "Golden Bullet" Bulk well under an inch at 25M. It's nearly as accurate as my tricked out Butler Creek 10/22 and has a slight accuracy edge over my stock barrel 10/22.

Most out of the box 10/22's I have worked with are all ammo fussy, but will at least shoot something sub-one inch or close at 25M. A lot of the folks on the various 22 forums concur that the Remy green box bulk "Golden Bullets", generally, though not always, are the most accurate bulk type ammo in these guns. 

However, the 795 pretty much gobbled up everything and was unbelievably accurate. Accuracy with everything was well under an inch. Some groups with the Remy bulk were 1/2". And this in less than 30 rounds in a new gun.   This is more than adequate for an AS LTR.

It has all the mods folks add to their 10/22's...including a huge rear bolt buffer. The trigger is long but breaks fairly light, nearly as good as the 10/22's. The reset is short and then the sear release is light. Mags are $19 from Midway and as mentioned above, are not drop free. They are however at least fairly easy to grab and pull out, especially as they wear in. 

I did have a few expected break-in malfs, and if those don't get worked out, I will report back.

The stocks sights are pretty crude, especially for my eyes, so I quickly put a cheap Bushnell 3-9  scope on it. It is not drilled and tapped, so you can only use the smaller 22 type rings on top of the grooved receiver.

The nice thing is this is a low cost $189 rifle and is good to go right out of the box.
The gun is easy to learn on and manipulate for a newbie. The length of pull will fit either an adult or child. It balances well and shoots good on the AQT stages.
TG

SamD,

Get hold of a board member from Ohio that goes by Frenchie here IF I have it right.

He built one from a Marlin 795 and shot it at Akron/Minerva, IIRC.

The Williams FP-TK-SG (foolproof, target knobs, scope groove) will easily clamp on the scope groove on the 795.  Then you have to install a higher front sight on the rifle to go with the rear sight.

IIRC, Tech Sights is bringing out a scope groove mounting sight also, partially for this rifle.

Buckshot

I had an email conversation with Larry at Tech-Sights this afternoon. They will run $69 +s&h
That sight will fit any grooved receiver. Make a lot more rifles LTR friendly.

Here are the las three shots from mine yesterday, on our closing "Redcoat"(shot in reverse order)
Winchester "Wildcat" ammo


It'll do it all day long if I do my part

Taos Glock
did you try yours yesterday in EP?
Congrats on the orange hat too.

QuoteHere are the las three shots from mine yesterday,

I miss my Marlin.

Grab another one Wheeler.
In my book they have it all over the 10-22, and on alot more than price too.
Sam

I've got a Coast-to-Coast hardware model 42 rifle, which was manufactured by Marlin and is actually a 795 that pre-dates the relatively recent addition of the large bolt knob and bolt hold open.

Mine drops magazines quite easily when the mag release is hit.  I absolutely love the short-length stick magazines over the rotaries that are offered by Ruger for their 10/22.  Easier to insert and remove.

I'll admit mine doesn't shoot as well as SamD's, it is also about 30 years older and probably has several tens of thousands of rounds through it, as well as hundreds of clueless strokes of a metal cleaning rod that screwed up the crown and rifling.  Darn those little brothers and previous owners.

It'll still shoot a Rifleman score though.

It's topped off with a 3-9x40 Swift scope.  I have 2x7rd magazines for it and 2x10rd magazines.

It is getting finicky in its old age.  Remington bulk clogs it up about 10-20% of the time.  Federal bulk cycles okay, but about 5% of the time I get a dud or a failure to feed.  Federal Automatch runs great in it, with much less than a 1% failure rate.  CCI stingers or minimags also run quite well, as does Wolf Match.  Runs much better with a very wet bolt, but then it also gets dirty and gummed up quickly.  It's really only good for about 100 rounds nowadays.

I've been pleased enough by it though, that I am willing to try a newer iteration of the same rifle.  I was actually quite pleased to see the number of 795's on the line at Albuquerque.

Quote from: SamD on October 21, 2008, 02:22:13 AM
Here are the las three shots from mine yesterday, on our closing "Redcoat"(shot in reverse order)
Winchester "Wildcat" ammo


It'll do it all day long if I do my part

Taos Glock
did you try yours yesterday in EP?
Congrats on the orange hat too.

I had no takers on it at the EP AS.   The group of 5 folks we brought all had firearms. 
However, I had not shot any gun since our last AS together in Raton in Sept. I have been coaching BlueFeather my wife to get "patched up".
So just for fun before, the EP shoot, I picked up the 795 and put her thru about a 3 min. AQT. Stage 1 offhand was a dream to shoot and the rifle balances perfectly.
This was with Remy bulk ammo. I felt I could do much better too.
Here is a pic:

Good to see yours is up to speed.
After a bit you'll come to really like that rifle.  I would put a little weight up front in the stock. hangs better.
I have a couple of extras already made that you can have for it.
I sent Blue Feather a "Welcome letter".
Suspected who it was but I wasn't sure, oops, she just replied so I know for sure!

Glad to see you have matching hats.
Looking forward to seeing you both soon

Sam

Get 'em quick!  I just ordered a set.



Hooray to them for following through on this!  I had given up hope they would ever be available, and I was going to go down the road of the evil 10/22 for a new LTR.  Now, I can retain my intent of purchasing a new 795 to replace my very ancient 795... and take advantage of the fact that the new 795's come equipped with bolt hold-opens already, and the stick mags are more insert/remove friendly than the rotaries of the Ruger!

Huzzah, Tech-Sights!  Huzzah!  Huzzah!

Fandamntastic,
Been waiting for these.

Sam

After reading SamD's review of his Marlin LTR in another post I was thinkin' on buying one, but was waitin' on Tech Sights to make the sights available after hearing the rumor that they were in the works.

Good news, thanks.

I'm thinking of putting a Williams FP-AG-TK rear sight on my OTHER 795 and seeing how the Williams solution stacks up against the TechSights solution for ease of installation, cost, ease of adjustment on the range and accuracy.

But, I can't figure out which front sight to use to replace the factory Marlin sight with a Williams one!  Can someone help me out?

http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/rifle.htm

Very cool!

I love my Marlin 60 and have been somewhat disappointed that it wasn't the best LTR because of the sights. Now, seems like that problem's been remedied.

Coupled with a spee-D-loader and a GI sling, I have another LTR sitting in the closet right now.

AWESOME!!!!

You'll have  to do a physical measurement to determine the front sight needed. Determine teh difference in height above bore of the stock sights, the new rear you want to use and them add that difference to teh front to get your height.  You can also cheat.
Replace the front with a piece of twisted wire or tape and using it as a front sight, test fire and chop off pieces till you see what height you need. On dovetail fronts, replace the front with a roofing nail, test shoot, cut to height and test again, and again and again, then measure nail to determine what height you need

Sam

Anybody tried them out on a Remmie 597?  I've got one of those that's suffering from the OEM sights.

I don't think anyone has tried them out yet.
Just released in the last couple of days.

Sam

I received my sights yesterday.  Fast service.

Yanked the Swift 3-9x40 scope of my rifle and installed the rear sight.

My rifle is actually a "Coast to Coast Hardware Stores model 42."  That being said... it's a marlin 795.  Very old, but still a Marlin 795.

But... the front sight was actually a band around the entire barrel, with no hole drilled and tapped!  I have to find a gunsmith to drill and tap the set-screw for the front sight.

Can anyone recommend a smith in North Phoenix or North Glendale that can do this for me?  I don't want to drive 25 miles to the nearest one I know of.

Quote from: didactic on November 10, 2008, 02:03:20 PM
Anybody tried them out on a Remmie 597?  I've got one of those that's suffering from the OEM sights.

And my Remmie 572 is whining about my not getting Tech Sights for it too.
I wonder IF ....

I sent an email to Tech Sights so .... we shall see didactic we shall see.
{He crosses his fingers ....}




Watch for PM

AZ:

You can drill and tap with the proper tools...probably buying the tools will be the same cost as having a gunsmith do it.

I used the Williams FP etc rear sight on my 795 LTR last year, and then used a Marlin 336 front base and blade (all from Brownells).  The bases are availible in different heights. A little file work can drop the front sight or thin it up on the sides (I thinned mine up a bit, then dabbed on a little cold blue).

I've shot both my 795 and a 10/22 at an Appleseed...the Marlin was far more reliable in terms of feeding (and I don't really clean it much either) and cheaper overall. 

Received mine in yesterdays mail. Didn't get a chance to install them till last night, because TaosGlock and I were checking out the range for the 27-28 Dec Alamogordo Appleseed.
I'm heading out to the yard to check them out now. .
Look good and give a clear picture.

Sam

Tech Sight performance.

It took some tweaking. The front post had to come up a bit to allow zero, I dropped a piece of #2 shot underneath it for now.
20 shots kneeling(the range is soggy today) 50 ft target at 25 yards.



I think the sights are usable as is the kneeling position

Guess now I need to learn to shrink those pictures a bit

Sam

I'm fixin' to buy one of these and I typically like stainless better than blued steel, but for those of you that own 'em which one do y'all like better in this particular rifle?

The targets TaosGlock posted below were with a stainless 795.
he likes it pretty well so does BlueFeather.
Thay can give you some firsthand commentary when they get back from the As in AZ.

My highest 25M AQT score was shot with that little 795. Better than the one posted. 
It's a breeze to field strip. It has a built in buffer and the bolt pops right out for cleaning.
It has dual extractors unlike the 10/22.
I still like my tricked out 10/22's, but this is an impressive rifle for the price and the standard features.