Project Appleseed

It seems that CCI is the golden standard for reliable and working 22LR ammo. But since I've only taken one appleseed course, I'm curious to hear from people that have attended more than one shoot if they have noticed failures happen with a specific type or brand of ammo. Is there any specific 22LR ammo that you choose to avoid? Thanks!

thunderduds

My personal experience, eley in the bulk boxes from the cmp. It was worse for me and my buddy than thunderbolt!

Remington Golden and Winchester  seem to have a lot of duds.

Armscorps.

Though they improved about 6 years ago, Remington Golden bullets are filthy. I used to cringe when they were fed to my loaners.  For quite awhile they were all you could find in bulk.  I second Armscorp as nasty as well.  My experience with Winchester Super X and M-22 has been fine.  CCI seems to be the gold standard; I have always liked the high velocity offerings but after seeing sub-dime sizes groups from a favorite rifle this past weekend, Standard Velocity has moved into contention.

In my short time, my rule thumb is "Stay Away from the 'A'"...that is, Armscor and Aguila.

Tres deer-tay...

CCI, both SV and Blazer, have been my go-to.  I've seen Eley perform pretty well, too.

Quote from: Monkey on August 22, 2019, 10:45:51 PM
In my short time, my rule thumb is "Stay Away from the 'A'"...that is, Armscor and Aguila.

Tres deer-tay...

CCI, both SV and Blazer, have been my go-to.  I've seen Eley perform pretty well, too.

I've only bought 2 50 rounds off of Armscor, and I'm not happy with the waxed casings that ended up sticking in the magazines.

If you don't mind me asking, what was wrong with Aguila in your experiences?

Aguila has exhibited case head separations at more than one Appleseed where I was either a Shoot Boss or an Instructor. 

Quote from: Question Mark Mike on August 22, 2019, 11:10:40 PM

Quote from: Monkey on August 22, 2019, 10:45:51 PM
In my short time, my rule thumb is "Stay Away from the 'A'"...that is, Armscor and Aguila.

Tres deer-tay...

CCI, both SV and Blazer, have been my go-to.  I've seen Eley perform pretty well, too.

I've only bought 2 50 rounds off of Armscor, and I'm not happy with the waxed casings that ended up sticking in the magazines.

If you don't mind me asking, what was wrong with Aguila in your experiences?

I've heard about the issues that Guntuckian speaks of; my experience is that, although not as dirty as Armscor, WWB, or Remington (anything), it's relatively dirty ammo.  After about 150-200 rounds, I've seen consistent malfunctions associated with that ammo.

Quote from: The Wolfhound on August 22, 2019, 10:10:11 PM
Though they improved about 6 years ago, Remington Golden bullets are filthy. I used to cringe when they were fed to my loaners.  For quite awhile they were all you could find in bulk.  I second Armscorp as nasty as well.

And here I was thinking that the Golden Bullets were Remington's 'Premium' 22LR ammo. Thanks for pointing that out.

Quote from: Question Mark Mike on August 23, 2019, 10:41:13 AM

Quote from: The Wolfhound on August 22, 2019, 10:10:11 PM
Though they improved about 6 years ago, Remington Golden bullets are filthy. I used to cringe when they were fed to my loaners.  For quite awhile they were all you could find in bulk.  I second Armscorp as nasty as well.

And here I was thinking that the Golden Bullets were Remington's 'Premium' 22LR ammo. Thanks for pointing that out.

Oh, dear G-d, no. Golden Bullet, Thunderbolt - utter crap. more duds per box than anything else.

I agree with most of the posts on this but I would like to add something. For one all 22LR ammo is fairly cheap and fairly dirty. At 3 to 6 cents a round we cant complain too much. But one thing not covered here is the rifle itself. Some rifles will truly shoot any ammo you feed it with no problems at all. Even when they get gummed up with junk they will continue to run whatever you send down it. That being said some are much more particular. I have "fixed" many rifles on the line by simply changing ammo. Some rifles will not cycle with standard ammo. Switch to High speed. Some just wont shoot the cheep stuff. Switch to something else.

So on top of everything which others have said buy a few boxes of assorted "Try this" ammo and see what your rifle likes. If it wont shoot one brand then dont buy that any more.

Just my 2 cents. 

Quote from: Question Mark Mike on August 22, 2019, 06:35:14 PM
It seems that CCI is the golden standard for reliable and working 22LR ammo. But since I've only taken one appleseed course, I'm curious to hear from people that have attended more than one shoot if they have noticed failures happen with a specific type or brand of ammo. Is there any specific 22LR ammo that you choose to avoid? Thanks!

With what Steve said why torture yourself with known questionable ammo?  Misfires are usually a priming problem, confirmed by rotating it so the rim is hit in a different spot and it goes bang.

Does anyone have input on current production Federal rimfire ammo?  Pre 2013 crisis Automatch was pretty decent but I heard reports here that it was having problems a years or so ago.

Thanks

Quote from: Charles McKinley on August 23, 2019, 07:14:12 PM
With what Steve said why torture yourself with known questionable ammo?  Misfires are usually a priming problem, confirmed by rotating it so the rim is hit in a different spot and it goes bang.

Does anyone have input on current production Federal rimfire ammo?  Pre 2013 crisis Automatch was pretty decent but I heard reports here that it was having problems a years or so ago.

Not current production, but AutoMatch from 2017-ish(?) timeframe gives us fits with the Civil Air Patrol group that bought a stockpile of it. They only shoot it through instructor loaner 10/22s, and misfires/stovepipes are common. This year they supplemented with Winchester M-22, and we had half a dozen partial case head separations with that, blowing smoke out the ejection port.

Now that .22LR is no longer 14 cpr, there's no excuse for shooting unreliable bulk ammo unless you're just blasting at tin cans to make noise. I like CCI SV, but I know other instructors who swear by other brands, so try a few as others have said.

FWIW & YMMV.

Between my boys, their friends, and I have put nearly 10,000, yes 10K, rounds of Aguila SuperExtra 40 grn  mostly through our three 10/22s. Not one malfunction that I can recall even in very dirty rifles.

I did an accuracy test with five different brands of ammo through our three 10/22s, (off a bench),  and the Aguila consistently shot cloverleaf or better groups.

Next best was Federal Champion Target 22 LR High Velocity 40grn. Consistently dime size groups.

Blazer shot consistent quarter size groups.

Federal AutoMatch 22 LR 40gr was not good. Softball size groups.

Federal Champion 22 LR 36gr HP looked like a bad shotgun pattern.

All were shot on a squares target at 25 meters.

FWIW we've had poor luck with Federal automatch...lots of misfires and misfeeds in my daughter's 10/22.  My Marlin 795 and Tipmann M4-22 seem to eat most anything and not care.  CCI both SV and Blazer run reliably in the 10/22. Best advice I saw was buy a few boxes of various kinds and see what your (dirty) rifle likes.  CCI is available for as low as 4 cents a round.   Link in the Deals and Steals board.

Based on my 12 seasons of Appleseeding, CCI Mini Mags and Blazer have proven to be top performers in the majority of rifles even when dirty.
The ammo has more than enough accuracy to shoot Rifleman scores.
Remington bulk, is the most common ammo here in NM but is at the top of the heap for "duds". YMMV.
TG

The very best ammo to bring to an event is center fire, preferably in .30 caliber size. 

Quote from: PHenry on August 24, 2019, 03:38:13 PM
The very best ammo to bring to an event is center fire, preferably in .30 caliber size. 

Especially 30.06.

I have an old girl who likes that stuff. Her name is "Sally" and she's two years older'n me. 

I have had very good luck with CCI Standard Velocity 40 grain and Aguila Super Extra High Velocity.  I can't recall having a misfire with either in my Ruger 10/22s. 

I would agree with those who recommend staying away from Remington bulk ammo, either Thunderbolts or Golden Bullets.

I have had better luck with Federal Auto Match than Remington bulk.  One of my 10/22s cycles it fine but the other will have an occasional stovepipe.  I expect to have a handful of misfires per box with either rifle.  Misfires are rather frustrating when they occur during an AQT. 

The best I've found accuracy wise for my 10/22 is the federal champion 40 grain high velocity but it had occasional failure to ejects.  CCI Blazer functions all the time and is only slightly less accurate so I've run with that.  I do need another case of the federal champion as my M44US loved it.

Another question- was the older Remington UMC 22LR ammo just as bad as the currently made Remington 22LR ammo?

Quote from: cwcdl79 on August 22, 2019, 07:11:11 PM
My personal experience, eley in the bulk boxes from the cmp. It was worse for me and my buddy than thunderbolt!

Eley CMP worked well for me in a bolt CZ455, and also a Colt-Walther M4 which has an adjustable action.  However, in a brand new Series 3 Collector 10/22 I experienced several FTE in an Appleseed 40 round series - accuracy was very good however, at about 1 MOA - it may be the rifle extractor, or break-in, or may be the Eley round not having enough force to ensure the Ruger 10/22 to cycle correctly.  I also tried Federal Auto Match in the Ruger, which typically has not been as accurate, but I still experienced some FTE problems.  CCI Mini Mag is next.

In my experience, Thunderbolts are reliable and accurate in my bolt guns. (Savage Mark I , Ruger American and Kimber 82.) For semi-autos...not so much.

I avoid thunderbolt and M-22 like the plague.  They're dirty, and inconsistently made.  I've even had M-22 with such a horrible crimp that the bullet bent sideways when I tried to get it into a magazine.  It was that loose.

CCI Standard Velocity (CCI SV) works well in everything, and my Marlin 795 likes Federal Automatch, although my 10/22s aren't so great with it.

Interestingly, if you look at this link to a 22LR ammo review, you'll notice that in amongst all the high-dollar Eley and Target loadings, are a few cheapie standouts.
CCI SV
CCI Mini Mag
Federal American Eagle
Federal Gold Medal
Federal Champion Target

I can find all 5 of these locally for $5/box or cheaper.  I'd recommend buying a 50ct box of each and seeing what you and your rifle like.  Then go online and order a case.
For what we do at Appleseed, each of these are plenty accurate.

I have several 10/22s a couple of Marlin 795s and an Anschutz Achiever bolt action. All of them shoot CCI standard velocity very well. Next in line is a toss up between CCI mini mags (the40 gr copper plated rn or the 36 gr hollow points). Federal target has been good as well. The Marlins love Norma TAC but it is very greasy. Aguila super extra has been fine in my rifles and I've plowed through at least 5000 of them in the past year: no head separations and no misfires. A few failures to eject but the same can be said of the CCI ammo. This winter here in Alaska I did a lot of shooting when it was below zero. The CCI mini mags were tops for reliability in cycling the actions of the semi autos.

Oh, and to answer the topic question stay away from the Remington stuff. It is not the ammo for an appleseed clinic.

What Gus said: ^^^^^^

It's a crying shame, Remington is a fine name and has made untold numbers of fine rifles and ammo; but .22LR is NOT their strength. Remington bulk "golden garbage" has caused a disproportionate number of failures on my lines. Way past the possibility of it being coincidence. But, maybe it works great in single shot bolts. I wouldn't trust my life or my patch on it. CCI blue box standard velocity  is my go-to after extensive testing for both function and accuracy.
  --FF

Try Gemtech.  It's pricey.  It can be shot without suppressor.  I shot a 233 with a basic 10/22.