Read this first: Welcome to the adaptive shooter threads.

[desertrat144]

Welcome Disabled Shooters here's where we will try to take the 'dis' out of disability. Knowledge is power, and one of the goals is empowering the folks that are willing to help themselves. Within, you will find resources and real time solutions to various impediments to getting back on the firing line; these are problems and solutions that others have run into; if you have info or ideas, pass 'em on here. This thread has been more than a year in the making, time and the good graces of the RWVA, Shoot Bosses and Instructors has made this a reality.

Instructors are going to need this information more and more as we get a bigger cross section of America engaged. At:Re: I am glad..., by SamD, Reply #3, at: http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=9893.0

This is one of the reasons this thread exists, as a past Firearms Instructor (pistol) the 'hidden' disabilities of the students were amazing, perhaps more so was the fact they had worked around these issues and were now oblivious to them. As SamD further notes, "Appleseed is just at the beginnings of seeing disabled shooters." I'd like to set up tabs that can be subdivided by issues, this will become a Live Reference Guide; all I ask is that solutions and methods must have worked in real time- somebody's well being or life might well depend on this.  In the works, a mod or two to the Appleseed sign up sheet asking if a participant is disabled, and what accommodations will be needed.  Currently, the Instructors listening to the disabled shooters requests is one of the best ways to help out, as the shooter has probably had to deal with this before; however don't be afraid to pose an alternate solution.  It may or may not work, but that's part of the learning curve.

In order to make this Disabled Shooter thread work, ideas and feedback are essential.  If there are disabled shooters, Instructors, or folks that have experience, or a desire to help This is your formal invitation to wade in.


PLEASE NOTE: The term DISABLED is used with the meanings ascribed by P.L., CFR, USC, and U.S. Supreme Court decisions.

[wolf]

i think this program for the disabled is great, and i think in the long run appleseed will benefit from it.you see the disabled usually  dont ask for handouts but strive harder to keep there nose above water,but due to there disability they are at a loss of income so the ability t o attend a appleseed may very well be the fact of financially affording it,so this program may bring in a lot of new people,and i myself being a 100% disabled veteran can say that not only the people it will bring in but what burns in the heart of a veteran ,you see veterans may lose an arm or leg or an eye but what burns in there heart ,the patrotrism for america can not be extinguished.i attended the davilla may appleseed and am looking forward to returning in september. see all there and god bless   wolf

Thank you for the post, and Thank you for your service! Tom

[Ishy]

Thanks for posting, Wolf!  I'm glad another "disabled" person is active in Appleseed.  Any ideas on how Appleseed can adapt to a handicapped person's needs would be welcomed.

Have a good one,

Ishy

[nyrasgt]

Troops,
   Will reach out to two handy, close, and personal resources, to which I have access:
1)  younger brother Michael (that's Professor Dupper to you...of Adaptive PE @ Ol' Miss [Univ. of Mississippi]-veteran of hundreds of Special Olympics as guy in charge, veteran of hundreds of marathons as insane runner, and...a shooter - if AS arrives in northern Ms...) and
2) son Kieran, Asst Mgr of Warren-Washington County (NY) Assn of Retarded Citizens (ARC) group home.
  See what these pros can recommend or suggest, or they can be used as (unpaid) professional consultants...
Excelsior,
madMark

[desertrat144]

"...Will reach out to two handy, close, and personal resources, to which I have access..."

madMark, Thanks for the leads and help.  Anything that we can come up with to accommodate the adaptive needs shooter is needed.  Us Vets have it somewhat easier, as we can usually get this made part of our plans for various problems.  The non-service guys are pretty much on their own, and facing the ever diminishing resources and polotics of Health Insurance Companies, this is where all hands are going to have to get creative.

Thanks again,
Tom

[bigdrumdaddy]

Many thx to fellow shooter and 1st-time Appleeder 4MOA or Bust for directing me to this link.

   While attending an AS event this past weekend (AUG 28-29) I had considerable trouble shooting from the prone position, as I have a 4-level fusion & titanium plate in my neck - making it near-impossible to get & hold a sight picture long enough to get off the req'd number of shots. As I have been permanently disabled for the better part of 10 years, and trying to make my way to an Appleseed for at least two of those years, I knew I'd experience a degree of difficulty due to my spinal injuries (neck & back), acquired as a result of an auto accident - but being a proud former Marine, I felt I could persevere.
   As the day wore on, it became clear that any hope of being effective from the prone was not to be, and I moved to try alternate positions - with the aid of an outstanding band of instructors who did everything in their power to assist me. By that time, however, the damage had been done. My pain level and resultant spasms were so debilitating that I couldn't begin to hold the rifle steady in ANY position - so I returned to the prone, as the solidity of Mother Earth at least offered me an immovable platform. The pain and spasms I did my best to ignore -with little success. I did not return for Sunday's conclusion.
   Since then I have made contacts throughout the shooting community - including some present that day - in hopes of finding a solution to my problem. While research is ongoing, I have come up with some possible/hopeful solutions - and come across a local area instructor who believes he can help me. I plan to meet with him in the days to come - but continue to brainstorm with fellow shooters.
   And while I'm keenly aware that my disabilities do not arise to the severity of many of those who've posted here - everything is relative, as they say. But I would like to offer my hand in friendship - and salute the courage of those I see here. Perhaps in working together we can find ways for all of us  to enjoy the shooting sports - and the Appleseed Project - which brought us all together, and remains so near and dear to our hearts.
   Let's make Fred proud.

Thank you for posting.  I hope the Adaptive Appleseed Program can help you on your way to quality Trigger Time & the Rifleman Patch.  PM is on its way.  dr144

[wolf]

well bigdrumdaddy sounds like you and i have one medical problem in common. i have fused vertabre in my neck which is also painful in the prone position also causes my eyes to water in pain also in the sitting position .however something you may try which worked for me. after several adjustments to my sling i found out by moving my scope forward i had to stretch myneck a little standing but in the prone i did not have to tilt my neck back ,however in the sitting position i now have to add a i inch rubber butt cusion to move the scope to the right distance. however i just experimented untill i found where i could shoot in all three positions with the least amount of pain.the trick is i think that nobody but you knows or feels your pain ,so maybe cant do away with it but eny thing to reduce it helps a ton,good luck

[desertrat144]

Wolf, if your scope mount system allows adjustment & a repeatable zero, try making different colored 'witness marks' for the various positions.  I've had decent success with my Gen II M1A mount, of course a chamber laser doesn't hurt initially.

Tom

[123xyz]

My understanding of the AQT shooting is that the rapid fire sitting & prone both start from standing. Some folks have knees that object to the standing start. Is there any way to modify the shooting so that the rapid fire can be started in position? I know that this is now possible in NRA across-the-course competition.

PS_Where can I find a detailed description of the AQT shooting process including the targets/distances used for each stage?

[desertrat144]

123,

A.AS allows accommodation to be made as needed upon satisfying need, either written, or it's just plain obvious.  Some folks won't ask, or want a 'head start' as they perceive it; a responsible AS Staff Member- anyone should realize that causing, or allowing a participant to injure themselves is negligence, on many levels.

What accommodation means is simply if the person must be in position prior to the Fire Command, they are; this doesn't prohibit having the rifle on the mat, having to insert a mag, sling up, &c. if it can be a. Done safely, and b. Done without causing further injury to the individual.

The second question is on the Board, I don't have the specific URL; check the IM, the info should be there.  If you can't find it, PM me so I can attach that info for you.

Tom

[teamnoir]

How do I post new threads here?  (I can't seem to find the command).

And what is meant by the requirement for a group membership in order to "prove" disability?  I'm not following that one.

Hi, I hope this may help.  To post here, you have to be within the Instructor cadre.  If you are, and still can't post, PM me and I'll try to get things resolved.

To answer the 2d question, go to Adaptive Appleseed Admissions Manual for the disability definitions.  Again, if you have any questions PM me and I'll try to get your questions answered.  DR144