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RBC4 NC 08 2007

Started by Son of Martha, September 04, 2007, 09:07:04 AM

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Son of Martha

7 attendees.  JR. Birdman, myself, 762BBQ as Instructors.

Commenced Sunday morning at 0830 with admin, range procedures, safety rules, etc.  Did NOT do any history Sunday, wanted that to be a time with no additional distractions.  Started firing drills in PM, went until 1700 hours.  Two hour break, then evening class (Part one of the 1943 Army marksmanship video).

Monday 0830, more drills.  Lots of 5 shot groups at either 1" squares or NPOA targets (new NPOA target--black sheet with a 1" disk in the center).  Had them fire on the NPOA target with eyes closed, then fire on the same one normally.  AQT by stages, also 4 CAQTs up at the same time for stage repetition.  Evening class again (Part two of the video).

Tuesday 0830, history, more drills in AM, AQT grind in PM.  Round count by PM was 800 (!).  Evening class, trajectory, rangefinding, wind holdoff.

Wednesday 0800, Redcoats first then to full distance.  Target detection (shape, shine, silhouette, smell, contrast, noise, movement), rangefinding (front sight, averaging), team tactics, wind holdoffs, moving target leads.  Range cards. Crack/thump.  Full-distance zeroing in PM.  Evening class was Fred's Plan to Save America and "Good cop/Bad cop"--JB explained the fun side of Instructing, I came in later and explained the committed side.

Thursday 0800, Redcoats first then to full distance.  Multiple iterations of the full distance AQT.  JB's birthday, took a little break in the early afternoon to celebrate that.  Sent some to 25 yards with JB for further work, some stayed at full distance to work on AQT and then popups.  I went to classroom to prepare for an in-depth history lesson that evening, but never completed my prep.  Evening class cancelled for Thursday >:(.

Friday 0800, Redcoats.  Started AQT prep--plan was to spend morning on a mock Appleseed, have a cookout, then spend the afternoon whacking popups.  Morning session was a CF, as if everyone did a memory flush overnight.  Thank goodness DW had made up some range command cards for everyone...we ended up having a cookout while I re-evaluated our status.  After chow, back into AQT prep, starting with a "Range commands chorus"...sounded silly at first, but I think was very effective in fixing the commands in place quickly.  Had the rangemasters go through EVERY BLOCK of INSTRUCTION, just as if at the event.  We did often skip the actual firing phase, calling out the commands and then immediate "cease fire" to go into the next block of instruction.  Made the innovation of having ONLY the rangemaster teach, so as to cut back on the "one more thing..." add-ins by other Instructors.  This was a big help in keeping things running at a predictable schedule.  Evening class was "trial by examination", JB did oral exams using questions he had devised and info presented during the week.  I was tied up on something else for the first part, by the time I came in they were making a game of it, trying to come up with questions to stump each other.

Saturday, 0800.  Had RH assigned to gate greeter, parking lot watcher, line watcher.  I made a mistake early on, the line watcher reported to me that one of the early arrivals had started cleaning a rifle on a bench rather than leaving it in the vehicle.  I decided that I could tolerate that, and did not pursue it--however, what if a dozen people had decided to do that?  If a dozen can't, one can't...
My last report on pre-regs was 18, so I was expecting 20-30 attendees.  I think we actually had 34.  Standard Appleseed activities, secured operations at 1700 but JB stayed on the line for a while with a guy who was having some problems.

Sunday, 1100.  Actually got up and moving at 0700, people started coming at 0930 (!).  I think the Sunday count was 26(?).  After the first AQT, moved the best ones up to full distance for AQT there.  Let everyone who wanted get shots on popups before leaving.

Lessons learned:

>  Evening classes are a good idea, but probably should be done IMMEDIATELY after securing from range operations.  That way, when the day is over, it is OVER.

>  If at all possible, lesson plans for evening classes should be done PRIOR to BC, with the understanding that they may need to be modified depending on how the week goes.  It would have been a load off me to have had pre-packaged plans to execute.

>  JB passed on something he picked up from IOWA-Mark:  A pocket timer that will allow you to punch in a time and have it count DOWN, with an alarm when time is up.  This seems like such a small thing, but it was perfect for keeping things going.  We spent most of Monday and Tuesday under the tyranny of the timer, with honest to goodness two minute preps, two minute target checks, etc.

>  The SB needs to have contact info for all of the participants before leaving for the event.  I was getting pretty concerned about Scout Saturday evening, and did not have a cell #.  There was also a time I asked 762BBQ to go for supplies, and couldn't contact him while he was gone.

>  We probably did not have enough "campfire time" at this event.  We started going 9-10 hours a day in the heat and humidity, plus 2 hours in the evening, and folks just didn't have time or energy to sit and talk in the evenings.  I don't really know how to fix that, except to move evening classes up a couple hours.

>  AFAIK, this is the first event where an exam was given.  It sure seemed to have the effect of making people take more notes, and cross-check each other to make sure nothing was missed.  This needs to be explored further.

>  A separate SB for the AS is not a bad idea, but he should still be working UNDER the BC SB.  This way if there is a discrepancy between what the AS SB wants and what the new RH is told to do, the chain of responsibility is clear.

>  Having JUST the rangemaster talk during the classes was nice.  Attendees knew who to look for and listen to, rangemaster had more control over the flow and timing of the event.  Other RH coached on an individual basis up a down the line, but when it was time for another bite of instruction the rangemaster was the one who did it, almost like a single-RH Appleseed.

>  Having the FPSA-Good cop/Bad cop meeting was good.  There was one guy (Carnage) who later told me that he wanted to be a RH, but had to evaluate his other commitments to see if he could.  Without that meeting, he would likely have signed on and then disappointed us later...Now he knows what he is getting into.

Probably more to come.  JB, 762BBQ chime in.

SoM
Raise ye the stone or cleave the wood to make a path more fair or flat
Lo, it is black already with blood some Son of Martha spilled for that
Not as a ladder from earth to Heaven, nor as a witness to any creed
But simple service, simply given, to his own kind in their common need.

VAshooter

I think SOM is getting ahead of himself. He is describing activities at the Ramseur Bootcamp in 2008 and we haven't finished 2007 yet.

Now, if you want to talk about RBC4 in August 2007 I can attest to the fact that SOM did an outstanding job of keeping things moving and on track.  We started out beginning at 0830 each morning but soon SOM saw everyone hanging out earlier so we began at 0800 for the rest of the week. We were done by 9PM and most of us were ready to call it a day by then.

Lots of good scores fired on the AQT with Dewey (AR-180) firing a 243 on the first day. I think we fired at every target SOM,  Jr Birdman and 7.62BBQ could come up with over the course of the week. Once everyone had their shooting up to speed time was spent on range proceedures and comands. We spent some time on history too. We learned to recognize the features of rifles we wern't familiar with so we could check them on the line. We shouted out range commands and Dragonwood developed her drill sargent voice. Her description of shooting techniques in sitting made me think she was a past Olympic Champion rather than a relatively new rifle shooter.

Toward the end of the week some time was spent shooting full distance and pop ups and by then everyone was getting comfortable with positions and range commands. They looked like shooters on the firing line at the Camp Perry during the High Power phase.

The weekend Appleseed went well. New Red hats had a chance to put their newly learned skills to the test and I thought all pulled it off like veteran instructors. The attendees benifited from having lots of instructors on hand to help out with problems.

Scout ran the line wearing his new red hat and did a fine job. I did have misgivings though because he did such a great job of feeding us with Texas beef brisket all week that I think his skills are being wasted as an instructor. He was a He11 of a cook. 7.62BBQ also did some great cooking and catered a cookout for the entire crew during some down time. Between BBQ, beef brisket and Jr Birdmans Birthday Cake I think I gained weight at BC.

The weather started out hot on the first Sunday but then cooled down into the 80's and was nice all week. The Appleseed was even better with sun and low to mid 80's both days. The bugs were non existant. I didn't need to use bug spray at all while I was there. I did hear talk of spiders in Scouts tent but I think they worked out a cohabitation deal with Scout where he got the bed and they got the corners.
If you have never attended a Boot camp you need to get your name on the list of one of the ones coming up. If you like beef brisket I would recommend the one coming up in Texas. I'm trying to figure out how I can get there.

Doug in Virginia
VAshooter

Son of Martha

Ohh, oww....2008....must be the coffee....

(Just makin' sure ya'll are paying attention  ;))

SoM
Raise ye the stone or cleave the wood to make a path more fair or flat
Lo, it is black already with blood some Son of Martha spilled for that
Not as a ladder from earth to Heaven, nor as a witness to any creed
But simple service, simply given, to his own kind in their common need.

ken grant

 SORRY I MISSED IT :'(
The COI was a lot different from BC1
SOM, I want to know about the NPOA Targets. May be best via PM or E-mail and not take up space here.
Of course, others here may want to know as well. ;D

AR-180

Boot Camp was a very good experience.  The drills were helpful.  Even with years of shooting and coaching experience, I had never seen that NPOA drill before.  I will be sure to use it when coaching advanced shooters.  I also learned a great way to shave valuable seconds from my sitting stage. 

The most eye-opening portion to me was the target detection portion.  It would be interesting to see a more advanced class that involves much more of this type of activity.  Perhaps, this type of activity could be added to the WWII and Korean War Sniper Schools.  It certainly is a skill that I will try to spend more time developing.

In an effort to gear test, I tried many different rifle, ammo, and sight combinations.  In the process, I learned much about my equipment.  Having the 10/22 to fall back on was nice.  The Liberty Training Rifle is a great tool for building a strong foundation.  Iron sights are the way to go for simplicity.     

By far, the best part of the boot camp experience is the people.  Shooters and instructors alike have to make big sacrifices to attend.  Thus, the people are serious and dedicated.  There is a camaraderie that is special.  Each person brings unique experiences and has specific goals to be met while there.  There is something to be learned from each participant. 

The program was intense both mentally and physically.  My body was very relieved to be back at work today.       

Nickle

Quote from: ken grant on September 04, 2007, 05:42:19 PM
SORRY I MISSED IT :'(
The COI was a lot different from BC1
SOM, I want to know about the NPOA Targets. May be best via PM or E-mail and not take up space here.
Of course, others here may want to know as well. ;D

Yup, that's a new one, and I would sure like to see one.
They have men amongst them who know very well what they are about, having been employed as Rangers against the Indians and Canadians and this country being much covered with wood, and hilly, is very advantageous for their method of fighting. . . . ".  Lord Percy

Sounds like New Englanders to me.

ken grant

 How about a short lesson on NOPA,targets and drills for same? ???
I think SOM came up with this.

Grin Reaper

I hear that SoM will be re-programming all the RBC clocks to have 37-second minutes.

You had to be there, I guess.
"There's gotta be a few umlauts laying around somewhere." JB

AR-180

#8
Moved to Instructor board

funfaler

#9
Moved to instructor board

The dips in your couch will go away if you get up and take the Seventh Step!

wrightcrew

#10
Moved to Instructor Board with PM sent to original poster

ken grant

Quote from: ken grant on September 04, 2007, 10:30:25 PM
How about a short lesson on NOPA,targets and drills for same? ???



How about the above? There are some who would like more info on this that do not have access to the Instructor Board.
Do you not want Appleseeders to have this info so as to improve their skills and put into practice?

funfaler

By all means, let's have this information here!

The items moved were not Appleseed shooting related, but more of a review/critique of the nuts and bolts of running the program.  This is why those items have been moved.  Those items are being discussed by the Instructors to make the running of Appleseed shoots better, but have relation or impact on the mechanics of shooting.

Feel Free to PM me if you wish to have further information as to why the items were moved.  Those that have posted have been sent PMs explaining the move.

I say that SoM or JB post up how they are working their NPOA exercises and some additional pointers on this topic, perhaps this might warrent a new post in another section, generally available?

The dips in your couch will go away if you get up and take the Seventh Step!

AR-180

Here are the drills that were shared:

NPOA

1)  White target - shoot a group aiming at the center with a zeroed rifle.  If you have a group in the center, excellent.  If you have a group not in the center, you need an NPOA change.  If you don't have a group, it is time for a gear check and a review of the basics. 

2)  Black paper with a 1" white circle in the center -  The goal is to put a group in the center.  For this drill, you take the shot with your eyes closed after centering the sights.  Wait a couple of heart beats with your eyes closed. 

3)  White card - Have the shooter find his/her NPOA.  The shooter tells the coach that they are ready.  The coach places a white card in front of the front sight and gives the shooter time to relax.  The shooter identifies if the sight picture is correct when the card is removed. 

Sight Alignment

This is my drill.  It also uses a white card.  It works like the drill above, but the coach puts the white card in front of the rear sight.  The goal is to check for sight alignment not sight picture.  This checks cheek weld and will catch and help correct shooters who can shoot tight groups in multiple locations.  The eye chases the front sight and the sight picture.  In doing so, the shooter loses consistent sight alignment.  This is often overlooked and can be hard to catch.

Son of Martha

NPOA target is 1" white disk in the center of a black 8x11 paper.  Idea is to prevent shooter from seeing bullet holes.  White disk also gives shooter excellent visual illustration of where shot cone is in relation to the front sight.  The shot cone is the same (relative to the front sight) for each range, if you are applying comeups rather than holdover.

Aim at disk, do NPOA drill, follow steps 1-3, then close eyes and wait for two heartbeats.  Execute proper trigger press.  Lather, rinse, repeat.  For the first couple times I would count down after eyes closed to help with trigger press timing, but that seemed to be more of a distraction than help.

And please be patient about answers, I can't check in every day. Work gets in the way.  ;D

SoM
Raise ye the stone or cleave the wood to make a path more fair or flat
Lo, it is black already with blood some Son of Martha spilled for that
Not as a ladder from earth to Heaven, nor as a witness to any creed
But simple service, simply given, to his own kind in their common need.

Old Dog

boy are you in trouble.  you just said (where Fred can here it) that something else gets in the way of Appleseed.  Glad I'm not in your shoes (boots). ;D ;D
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

DragonWood

Wow, reality hit me smack in the face yesterday with the daunting task if mowing the yard. It seems that the little yard fairies did not work while I was away at BC! :o
First of all, great job to all the instructors at BC! And to my fellow boot campers, we DID IT! ;D Lots of hard work, sweat, and more sweat, and oh yeah fun too! We experienced crack and thump, target detection, range, history and lots of other neat stuff.  Pop ups were as promised, lots of fun as well. Classroom was interesting but many of us were too tired to think by the end of the night. The week went quickly and time was managed by that trusty little timer that SOM got pretty attached to.
It was not just about us learning it was about learning how to teach others. I had to dig down to find that range voice but I think I finally found it by the end of Sat, and definitely by Sunday. I think SOM scared it out of me  ;).
There were times during the week that I thought I wouldn't make it through the day but I just dug down really deep and kept going.
As for teaching an Appleseed, that was fun. The first time that I called the line on Sat and commanded the line to fire (at the redcoat) was incredible. The smiles on someones face when they accomplished something or saw immediate improvement on something that I had just coached them on is priceless.
I would recommend BC for anyone who can spare the time off. I was the only female there and was treated like everyone else. Well, except for Scout who 99% of the time picked up my shells from my AR and put them in a neat little pile. I guess he was just gathered them up off his matt or his back and they just fell into a little pile :o
Attending BC was a personal goal of mine. I shot a rifle for the first time in my life last year at the Ramseur Appleseed. A year later I not only have the personal satisfaction of attending the boot camp but I also have a rifleman patch and a red hat as well!! ;D
To the instructors, SOM, JB, 762BBQ, thanks for all your hard work!
Fred, thanks for all your help over the weekend with the Appleseed!
DW
Perseverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages. (George Washington)

Son of Martha

OK, first time doing the picture thing, be gentle...

Scout and Dragonwood in the bubble...



Toolman and IOWA-Mark there also...



VAshooter and Carnage--SEE I did too let them have breaks...



JR. Birdman, about the time he realizes his birthday isn't a secret after all...



Red Hats after a feed:





Oops...how did THAT get in here?

SoM
Raise ye the stone or cleave the wood to make a path more fair or flat
Lo, it is black already with blood some Son of Martha spilled for that
Not as a ladder from earth to Heaven, nor as a witness to any creed
But simple service, simply given, to his own kind in their common need.

Junior Birdman

#18
Pics I forgot I had:

Top photo: "Go!, No...Stop! No, wait...GO!"  Or, "where'd everybody go?" Or, Why Red Hats should chew Big Red chewing gum.

Middle: Fred, Pontifcating

Bottom:Lawson putting the K98 to great execution!

"But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever." John Adams

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. Fredrick Douglass

Junior Birdman

#19
Mo pics I forgot:

Top pic:  The future is NOW!

Middle pic: Mom shoots a 300 on the Red Coats!!!

Bottom:  Doug shows us how on the SKS
"But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever." John Adams

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. Fredrick Douglass

AR-180

That is a great picture of Doug.  Gotta love those bayonets.  Look out, targets!

Carnage_59

Wow!!!   What an unbelievable experience that was!!!  I learned more in that week than I did in ten years. 

I was totally exhausted by COB Friday and I had to bug out.  Saturday morning the man who was supposed to take over checking on my animals starting Friday called to tell me he had misplaced my house key.  The key was eventually found but it was a good thing I got home when I did.

I wish to thank the instructors, Son of Martha, Jr Birdman, Kevin, Dewey and the other RED HATS for their patience and help.  I also wish to thank Dragonwood, VAShooter, Scout, IowaMark, Toolman for their advice, help and patience also.

Now, the ingredients I need to add are patience, practice and perseverance.  I will make Rifleman.  I will be practicing at home and once I get it, I'll be there to pass the test.

Thank you all, and thank you Fred and Riflewoman too.


Fred


QuoteMiddle pic: Mom shoots a 300 on the Red Coats!!!

     Two interesting things about her:

       1) check out the "400" silhouette to see how close she came to nailing that one, too;

  and 2) she worried before the shoot whether she should come or not. Guess she made the right decision!
"Ready to eat dirt and sweat bore solvent?" - Ask me how to become an RWVA volunteer!

      "...but he that stands it now, deserves the thanks of man and woman alike..."   Paine

     "If you can read this without a silly British accent, thank a Revolutionary War veteran" - Anon.

     "We have it in our power to begin the world over again" - Thomas Paine

     What about it, do-nothings? You heard the man, jump on in...

Scout

Did anyone check it closely? It looks like it made it by .30 cal rules if she was shooting rimfire.
BattleRoadUSA.com

"Who wants Ice Cream?" Fred

Sixty seconds is way too long for a minute, I am cutting it down to thirty seven seconds- SoM

"You can shout it, you can preach it, but no matter how many times you repeat it, NEVER believe your own bullSh*t." (as told to me by Grin Reaper)

Son of Martha

Carnage:  Good to hear from you.  It was a pleasure, and look forward to seeing you next time at Ramseur.  (Don't forget the idea of Appleseeding the VADF...)

Mom was using my 10/22...guess now I don't have any excuse...

SoM
Raise ye the stone or cleave the wood to make a path more fair or flat
Lo, it is black already with blood some Son of Martha spilled for that
Not as a ladder from earth to Heaven, nor as a witness to any creed
But simple service, simply given, to his own kind in their common need.

Fred


     I remember checking and she missed it by t h i s much...like, a hair...
"Ready to eat dirt and sweat bore solvent?" - Ask me how to become an RWVA volunteer!

      "...but he that stands it now, deserves the thanks of man and woman alike..."   Paine

     "If you can read this without a silly British accent, thank a Revolutionary War veteran" - Anon.

     "We have it in our power to begin the world over again" - Thomas Paine

     What about it, do-nothings? You heard the man, jump on in...