Rifle choice dilemma

[LDB415]

I don't know which rifle to choose for a 25M clinic. I have a Ruger 32039. I bought it for the 250th commemoration but also for the sights with the extra long radius and peep rear. My original plan was to shoot it stock.

Everyone has beaten me up enough that I've got to have a scope on whatever rifle I'm shooting that I'll scope whatever I go with.

My other option is a Tippmann M4-22 Elite. It's a really nice rifle also. The flip up sights are ok but don't speak to me or do anything in particular for me.

I bought a SIG Romeo 5 Gen II Elite as it was the choice in articles/comparisons I read. I got it planning to put it on the M4. But a scope is the only option to consider.

So, either rifle would need the scope mounted. I might challenge my two left thumbs and do it myself. Or take the lazy route and go to the gun shop. Anyway, points of consideration.

Buying, gifted, finding, mysteriously just appearing, coming with 10/22's over the years, I have 30 magazines for the 10/22. So I could have 24 loaded with 10 rounds and 6 empty to load as desired/needed and not have to load mags during the day.

For the M4 I have 8-10 round and 3-25 round magazines so 8 good any time and 3 maybe only when standing (which I pray is most of the time but that's an old man thing and not totally germane to rifle choosing... I don't think).

So approaching the point of no return I have to figure out which rifle to bring and whether to be smart and scope it, semi-foolish and red dot it, or just foolish and use the sights I bought it to specifically get.

Ruger or Tippmann?

[Recon82]

Just bring both

[LDB415]

Just bring both

That partially solves things as I do have slings etc. for both. Hopefully I can figure out how to properly thread/attach them. But still leaves which to scope in the interim and does the other one get the red dot or bare?

[Zorak]

This is really going to come down to individual preference. There is nothing about either rifle that will make it inherently better for Appleseed. As instructors, we're here to teach you to shoot the rifle you bring. Is there somewhere near your house you can do some shooting and see what one you feel more comfortable with?

[floydf]

The sights on that Ruger are sort of adjustable.  There aren't clicks, windage is changed by unlocking and scooching it over and retightening.  Elevation is done by rotating the back sight, and it is something like 1.2 moa per half turn.  They are good enough for a first Appleseed (assuming that your eyes have not totally aged out of irons, at 72, mine have).  I've seen numerous shooters use them without major complaints.

The big advantage of either iron sights or a dot is the infinite eye relief, which makes it much, much easier to figure out positions. 

Dots have two advantages over irons: 1) old eyes can see them, and 2) changing head position does not shift zero much if at all.

The only caveat with dots is that they come in 3 MOA and 6 MOA variants: the 6 MOA doesn't work for Appleseed.

I have dots on both of my practice 10/22s, and two of my working ARs.  I would not be one of the people beating you up about needing a scope

[LDB415]

My eyes are 69 but also are 1. In 3/4-25 I had cataract surgery. I no longer wear glasses except for some reading or detail work close up. I'm going to take the rifles to the local indoor which is 25yds and try both out concentrating on "as is" for starters. The dot, which should probably be called a micro-dot, is 1 MOA and barely there. But it turns up really bright so there's no missing it's in there. I like the reticle with the outer circle and the holdover dots which may or may not prove useful but are fun to have anyway.

https://www.sigsauer.com/romeo5-gen-ii-elite-1x20mm-1-41-absolute-co-witness-mount.html

[ScubaSteve]

I would like to give a different perspective.

You are way overthinking this!!!!   Appleseed is all about taking a rack grade rifle and shooting it to distance. Every rifle and configuration you have talked about is more than capable of making score at an Appleseed. Loosen up, have fun and enjoy your weekend.

As for irons or scope. Get down in your Livingroom WITH NO AMMO, and see if you can clearly see the front site. Everything beyond the front site should be a little fuzzy but if you can make out a light switch on the other side of the room while the front site is clear then scope or irons will work just fine for you.

Don't preprep mags. You are just going to have to unload some of them anyway. Show up with a teachable attitude a smile on your face and see what the instructors are offering.  I bet you will enjoy it.

[LDB415]

I would like to give a different perspective.

You are way overthinking this!!!!   Appleseed is all about taking a rack grade rifle and shooting it to distance. Every rifle and configuration you have talked about is more than capable of making score at an Appleseed. Loosen up, have fun and enjoy your weekend.

As for irons or scope. Get down in your Livingroom WITH NO AMMO, and see if you can clearly see the front site. Everything beyond the front site should be a little fuzzy but if you can make out a light switch on the other side of the room while the front site is clear then scope or irons will work just fine for you.

Don't preprep mags. You are just going to have to unload some of them anyway. Show up with a teachable attitude a smile on your face and see what the instructors are offering.  I bet you will enjoy it.

Haha, I'll enjoy part of it. The standing part. I will definitely enjoy that part. If there's sitting maybe, depending on what is sat upon. Kneeling probably not a lot, at least my dumb knees/legs won't really. Prone maybe although the getting down not so much and the getting up not at all. Old age. It's for old people. Wanted or not. Anyway, I wouldn't voluntarily give up aging. And I wouldn't load more than half my mags and plenty empty for however is needed at the moment. I just wish they had a closer range.

[Big John]

If you spent the time you spend ruminating on this forum out at the range, you would have your answers and be better prepared for the class.

[LDB415]

If you spent the time you spend ruminating on this forum out at the range, you would have your answers and be better prepared for the class.

Haha, and be soaked in the rain. Or staring at the locked doors. Or wondering how to see the bullseye in just the moonlight. Or other things this forum doesn't cause.

[12 Gage]

If you'd like a scope recommendation that isn't too expensive, I've been looking at this scope:

https://muelleroptics.com/products/mueller-2-7x32-apv/

I haven't used it myself, but I've heard good things about the brand. Adjustable objective in a 2-7 scope is so uncommon, and perfect for a rimfire rifle. Focuses down to 10 yards. Only weighs 13 oz.

I'm tempted to get one.

[LDB415]

If you'd like a scope recommendation that isn't too expensive, I've been looking at this scope:

https://muelleroptics.com/products/mueller-2-7x32-apv/

I haven't used it myself, but I've heard good things about the brand. Adjustable objective in a 2-7 scope is so uncommon, and perfect for a rimfire rifle. Focuses down to 10 yards. Only weighs 13 oz.

I'm tempted to get one.

I've looked at those online. I've got the Crossfire HD scope they sell in the Appleseed store so I'd use it, probably on the Tippmann. I'll spec some more on whether to use the red dot or not on the 10/22. That AO is tempting though.

[Cannibal]

My advice - just sign up and shoot.

I shot my first Appleseed with a stock 10/22 Takedown. Lost the stick front sight on Saturday and bought a scope Saturday night which the Shoot Boss graciously helped me out by mounting it on Sunday.

That was 10 years ago and my rifle setup has changed drastically to fit me better but none of that would have happened if I didn't sign up and shoot.

[Fulcrum]

I am definitely one to over-analyze, talk an issue to death, and then beat that talked-to-death issue like the proverbial deceased horse. But you are the master, my friend! Haven't we been talking about this since at least January? You still don't have your Appleseed rifle set up?

I'm not a fan of the animated emoji things but I'm going to use a few:

You are doing to much of this    when you should be doing more of this 

In my family, I am the one to overthink things, and my wife is the one we call "The Closer" who finally tells me we have all the information we need and it's time to just decide and move forward.

I am going to be your Closer.

If you already bought the Crossfire HD scope from the Appleseed site, use that. Which mount package did you get? The 10/22 package? Or the AR15 package that works with the Tippmann? Use the rifle that you have the mount package for.

That is your path. I have decided for you, and now you must commit to the chosen path and move forward! Set up your rifle and go to the range shoot it. Get into your rifleman's bubble, block out the intrusive thoughts, and focus your mind on the target. Inhale, exhale, squeeze the trigger.

This is you 

Have an excellent day. Cheers! 


 

[LDB415]

I am definitely one to over-analyze, talk an issue to death, and then beat that talked-to-death issue like the proverbial deceased horse. But you are the master, my friend! Haven't we been talking about this since at least January? You still don't have your Appleseed rifle set up?

I'm not a fan of the animated emoji things but I'm going to use a few:

You are doing to much of this    when you should be doing more of this 

In my family, I am the one to overthink things, and my wife is the one we call "The Closer" who finally tells me we have all the information we need and it's time to just decide and move forward.

I am going to be your Closer.

If you already bought the Crossfire HD scope from the Appleseed site, use that. Which mount package did you get? The 10/22 package? Or the AR15 package that works with the Tippmann? Use the rifle that you have the mount package for.

That is your path. I have decided for you, and now you must commit to the chosen path and move forward! Set up your rifle and go to the range shoot it. Get into your rifleman's bubble, block out the intrusive thoughts, and focus your mind on the target. Inhale, exhale, squeeze the trigger.

This is you 

Have an excellent day. Cheers! 

Well, you partly answered it. But thinking it all the way through, yes, I have the cantilever mount but the regular mount is readily available. And the Romeo 5 is still sitting begging. If the scope goes on the Tippmann does the Ruger stay with fixed which was the entire reason for getting it originally, or should it get the Romeo 5? And the Tippmann would cowitness, I think that's the proper term, flip up it's stock sights and look right through the Romeo 5 to use them if desired. Won't do that with the scope. The Ruger won't with either option. It will probably stay stock fixed. I'll just need a third rifle for the other optic, whichever that is. The thinking is the fun part.

[Fulcrum]

Don't use the Ruger iron sights. I had those same sights on my 60th anniversary special edition 10/22, and they are not good. They are not click adjustable. They will be a pain to zero.

Do not use the Romeo5. I have that red dot on my Ruger PC carbine. It's nice, but red dots are not for precision shooting. The dot obscures the smallest targets. Red dots are for defensive weapons, or shooting steel, or other scenarios where fast shooting is more important than precision marksmanship.

Don't worry about cowitnessing. You won't be doing that at your 25m event. You most likely won't ever be using it.

Use a scope, and since you already have a scope, use that one. I'd suggest setting up the scope using the mount you have on the rifle the mount was made for, but if you'd rather buy another peace of gear, that's your choice. But you currently have all the gear you need to set up a good Appleseed rifle, and maybe enough to set up more than one, so why not just do it and go shoot? Almost all of your questions would be better answered with trigger time than online advice.

It is true that thinking through the rifle setup can be fun, but overthinking it is not, at least not for the people you are asking to overthink it with you. Are you sensing any frustration from the people who have been giving you advice? I like giving advice with a goal in mind, and usually I'm trying to help the person narrow down choices, make decisions, and move forward toward the goal. In your case, the goal is framed as getting ready for an Appleseed 25m event. But instead of narrowing down the choices, making decisions, and moving forward, it feels like the options just keep expanding, and we circle back to the same questions with even more choices to make, and we never get any closer to the goal of getting the rifle set up and getting you to an Appleseed. Now you are talking about a third rifle.

In your Road to Rifleman subforum posts, do you consider yourself to be on the road to rifleman, or at least on the road to setting up one suitable Appleseed rifle for one 25m Appleseed event? Or is this more about having fun with general gun banter? Is it goal oriented or just friendly BS-ing? There's nothing wrong with the latter, but on this forum, I like to do my aimless chatting in the Buckman Tavern. I'm worried that if you never act on any of the advice you ask for in the advice subforums, you'll use up the goodwill of the advice givers.

I think you have what you need to move forward with setting up your Appleseed rifle, and I've been happy to help along the way over the past year. And I will be happy to help you again with any questions that start with, "I was shooting my Appleseed rifle, and I have a question about..."

[LDB415]

I do like thinking. And one thought and answer often leads to two or more additional. Sorry to have been a pest. No more.

[Fulcrum]

There's no need to apologize. I don't mean to be harsh, but please just set up one rifle for me. Pick one and put the scope and sling on it. I will feel like my life has had purpose if you set up your Appleseed rifle. Thank you.
 

[12 Gage]

Put that LTR together. Pics or it didn't happen.

[ShooterMagoo]

Hi @LDB415- been watching some of these convos from the sidelines, thought I'd toss a quick comment in.

For a man who, seemingly by his own free will, chooses to live in the most anti-gun state in our great nation, @Fulcrum has given excellent advice. I wish the forum had a "Like" button, I'd use it.

What he said to do, is exactly what you should do. Take the scope mount you already have in one hand, the rifle that it fits in the other, and mate them up. Then install the scope. And then, stop thinking about another rifle.

Instead, take that rifle and some ammo and go shoot it a little. I live near enough to you that if you'd like to meet up at a range some time between now and October, I'll be glad to. Send a PM & we can figure out a time & place.

Gotta take the leap man- move on from enemy #1 (making a decision on the rifle), and get to the real stuff. Namely, putting on your shootin' hat, cranking your hotrod up, and driving yourself to that first Appleseed. I'm sure you'll be glad you did.

[LDB415]

I'll be glad until the prone parts. Then likely not. I've just got to put aside some things, like an AR style rifle has no business with a scope on it unless it's a LPVO style or original carry handle mounted Colt 4x style. But a "real" rifle style scope should never be on one. And my rifle bought just for the long radius peep sight can't have any optic on it. Yes, technically it can, so I could have mounted the dot the day it arrived. And it's a 1 MOA dot so should be ok even on an AQT since it isn't the 6 MOA dot that covers everything up. But I also like thinking about everything possible from every angle and direction possible. And with a sieve collector device I repeat things as I don't recall asking it or answers or whatever. The "I've eaten and slept since then" syndrome. So the scope will go on the Tippmann and look totally wrong and out of place. At least until I find a better alternative choice. And I'll spec' on the dot and its future.

[ShooterMagoo]

The scope on the Tippmann sounds great. If that's what you're going to use, do it & put the rest out of your mind until you've gone to the clinic. It's what I have, I'm happy with it, but what really makes the difference is attending the shoots and learning and practicing.


Offer stands.

[Fulcrum]

I'll be glad until the prone parts. Then likely not. I've just got to put aside some things, like an AR style rifle has no business with a scope on it unless it's a LPVO style or original carry handle mounted Colt 4x style. But a "real" rifle style scope should never be on one. And my rifle bought just for the long radius peep sight can't have any optic on it. Yes, technically it can, so I could have mounted the dot the day it arrived. And it's a 1 MOA dot so should be ok even on an AQT since it isn't the 6 MOA dot that covers everything up. But I also like thinking about everything possible from every angle and direction possible. And with a sieve collector device I repeat things as I don't recall asking it or answers or whatever. The "I've eaten and slept since then" syndrome. So the scope will go on the Tippmann and look totally wrong and out of place. At least until I find a better alternative choice. And I'll spec' on the dot and its future.

I'm familiar with the analysis paralysis problem, because I do it myself, and sometimes I get stuck on trying to solve every problem all at once, instead of focusing on one goal and the immediate steps I can take toward that goal. I can be more of an "idea guy" and not so great at execution. What helps me is to focus on one goal and then break the problem down into single steps and then ask myself, "What is the first step?" And then do the first step without worrying about the next step, or all the steps, or a bunch of other steps not related to the main goal.

Your goal: Set up your Tippmann M4 for Appleseed.

Step one: Put the scope mount on the rifle.

Report back for your next instructions!

[Fulcrum]

The scope on the Tippmann sounds great. If that's what you're going to use, do it & put the rest out of your mind until you've gone to the clinic. It's what I have, I'm happy with it, but what really makes the difference is attending the shoots and learning and practicing.


Offer stands.

That's a very kind and generous offer!

[Dmthomp32]

I hope LDB has stuck to his guns and moved forward with the Tippmann! I understand your desire to have a more AR looking appropriate scope on the rifle (I've been down this road as well) but unfortunately there aren't a lot of great options that have the LPVO look and function while having the parallax for rimfire ranges.
I started with the Primary Arms fixed 6x powered scope designed for .22's. It was perfect for everything except standing, in the end I still managed to shoot distinguished! I've since removed it and went with a Leupold 2-7x rimfire scope. Better optical quality, better magnification flexibility, and it has an MOA reticle should I decide to stretch its legs some. While it doesn't look like an LPVO, I think it will hit on most of the things I need for this rifle.
Whatever scope you went with (the one from the Appleseed store), will be perfect! The Tippmann will run like a top so long as you keep those mags loaded properly and I believe you have the mag loader so you should be good! Get the rifle set, sighted in, practice some and just do your best. Remember you are only competing with yourself and the most important thing is to hone your skills and show improvement... while learning some cool history!

[12 Gage]

unfortunately there aren't a lot of great options that have the LPVO look and function while having the parallax for rimfire ranges.

I found a Bushnell AR22 the other day, that might fit the bill nicely.

https://gunsumerreports.com/review_bushnell_ar22_scope.php

[LDB415]

unfortunately there aren't a lot of great options that have the LPVO look and function while having the parallax for rimfire ranges.

I found a Bushnell AR22 the other day, that might fit the bill nicely.

https://gunsumerreports.com/review_bushnell_ar22_scope.php

It was encouraging until I saw the date, 2013, and Bushnell has no clue about it now.

[12 Gage]

All good rifle scopes are discontinued. That's the rule!

[malabar]

I was going to suggest a Mueller Speedshot

https://muelleroptics.com/products/

But apparently they're out of stock.

tk

[12 Gage]

See? All good rifle scopes are discontinued or soon will be.