Irons vs Scope for 25m

[m45pd]

Will be participating in my first Appleseed 25m event soon. Fairly new shooter. Was trying to decide whether to go with iron sights or a scope. Any thoughts or words of advice?  Thanks in advance.

[gunjunkie]

As an iron sight shooter most of life I would choose irons. I will tell you scopes make it much easier, so if your goal is to score a rifleman score I would use a scope. This allows you to focus on the fundamentals, you can always shoot irons at your next event.

Liberty Forever
Chuck     

[Fulcrum]

My eyesight is bad, and I need a scope to even see the target. I literally cannot see it at all without a scope. If your eyesight is 20/20, then irons might do for you. Can you see and hold your sights on a 1" black square at 25 yards? I don't necessarily mean hit it consistently (Not yet! That's what the class will teach you!), but can you see it well enough that you feel you could hold your sight on it? If you can, then you are good with irons. If not, then a scope is appropriate.

A few other things to consider. If you go with irons, you need click-adjustable irons, like Tech Sights, not the peep or leaf sights that come on most rifles. And personally, if I were going to invest money in sights, I'd just go for an upgrade to a scope.

The Appleseed store has decent deals on decent scopes, and you get everything you need, including the extended rail and the rings. https://store.rwvaappleseed.com/scopes.html

Appleseed store also has tech sights for certain rifles on this page: https://store.rwvaappleseed.com/page13.html

Here's the How to Prepare guide, with a section on setting up your Liberty Training Rifle, including info on the sighting systems: https://appleseedinfo.org/pdf/How%20to%20Prepare%20-%2025m%20Rifle.pdf 

[m45pd]

Thanks for the feedback.

[redbirdjr]

I tried going with the iron sights (tech sights) my first go 'round and I couldn't see crap on the targets (I'm 60 but don't wear glasses regularly). I shot very poorly. Maybe if you have excellent vision (i.e., young or blessed) but a scope will likely be your best first option.

[Burnett]

Try both.
See? Now I got ya on the hook for two events.
Then do the same for pistols; irons vs. red dot.
Then take an orange hat.

[Hasty Sling]

As an iron sight shooter most of life I would choose irons. I will tell you scopes make it much easier, so if your goal is to score a rifleman score I would use a scope. This allows you to focus on the fundamentals, you can always shoot irons at your next event.

Liberty Forever
Chuck     

I would echo this. Start with a scope. Get the instruction at your first 'Seed. Drill the fundamentals that weekend and thereafter. You'll make Rifleman when it all comes together.

Then you can start the process all over again with irons. Once you do that, be realistic. Can you hit (much less see) a 1" square at 25 m with irons? How about those 400 yd silhouettes? How about doing it in rapid fire at 200 and 300 yds?

I've tried all that at home and at an AS, and consistency has been a struggle. Have cleared Redcoats in practice and at a clinic. My highest score with irons was a 199. Still chugging away, but it's gonna take much more practice.

Good luck, and good shootin'.

[LDB415]

The more I read the more I'm convinced the open sights, even the extended sight radius peep sight on my new 10/22, aren't enough. Now to decide if this is the excuse to get my first red dot, with a green dot actually, or if I must continue to forego getting a dot and go to another scope.

[Zorak]

The more I read the more I'm convinced the open sights, even the extended sight radius peep sight on my new 10/22, aren't enough. Now to decide if this is the excuse to get my first red dot, with a green dot actually, or if I must continue to forego getting a dot and go to another scope.

Well, the most important thing is still to get out there and shoot, ideally at an Appleseed event. Even if your gear isn't working as you'd like, you can become a better shooter, and come away with a concrete set of priorities for gear upgrades. Or, who knows, maybe you'll discover that iron sights do work for you, and that money would be better spent on ammo. Time spent at the range working on your shooting can teach you more about gear than time spent researching gear on the internet can improve your shooting.

[eaglescouter]

I would NOT recommend a dot sight on a rifle for Appleseed.
They are however valid for pistols

The more I read the more I'm convinced the open sights, even the extended sight radius peep sight on my new 10/22, aren't enough. Now to decide if this is the excuse to get my first red dot, with a green dot actually, or if I must continue to forego getting a dot and go to another scope.

[scuzzy]

Well, the most important thing is still to get out there and shoot, ideally at an Appleseed event. 

lol - what the man said.

[509gman]

I would NOT recommend a dot sight on a rifle for Appleseed.
They are however valid for pistols

The more I read the more I'm convinced the open sights, even the extended sight radius peep sight on my new 10/22, aren't enough. Now to decide if this is the excuse to get my first red dot, with a green dot actually, or if I must continue to forego getting a dot and go to another scope.

I've seen dots get Rifleman. I should still do it myself once; but if we don't disallow other "chosen difficulties" like bolt actions, a dot sight is fine too.

[Zorak]

I think there are two different ways of looking at this topic. If you have a rifle with a red dot sight, by all means bring it. It's absolutely possible to shoot a Rifleman score with one. If you are still selecting your sighting system, and shooting Rifleman is a major consideration in that process, I would say get a telescopic sight instead, and I would have no hesitation in saying so.

[LDB415]

Well, sigh, I guess still no excuse to get the dot.  

[banzi]

Try both.
See? Now I got ya on the hook for two events.
Then do the same for pistols; irons vs. red dot.
Then take an orange hat.

I like the way you think

Banzi

[floydf]

I've got ARs with both dots and a scope, and shoot AQTs with both.   My rimfire practice rifles have dots.

The big advantage of a dot for a first Appleseed is the infinite eye relief.  It's much easier to wiggle around and figure out how to make positions work with a dot than with a scope.

Rifles with scopes can shoot higher scores (if the scope is positioned correctly), because "aim small, miss small". Also scopes on rimfire rifles allow "cheating", meaning shooting higher scores than the marksmanship fundamentals really warrant.  Which shows up big time when moving up to a centerfire rifle.  From my perspective, dots on rimfire rifles are a much better learning environment.

The advantage of a dot over irons (aside from the fact that you can see the darn things) is that changing head position doesn't change the zero as much.

Note that there are pistol dots with 6 MOA dots, and rifle dots with 3 MOA dots.  Make sure to get one with the smaller dot size.

I took a Ruger 10/22 with tech sites to my first Appleseed, if I were doing it today, it would be a 10/22 with a dot.  My practice rifles are 10/22 with Vortex Venoms with 3 MOA dots.