m1 garand and Springfield 1903

[Aliquippa]

Where might a person go to get hands on training on running and shooting these rifles? Someone had mentioned CMP clinic but I took that a couple years ago and found it unhelpful. It was all classroom and match instructions. 

[LDB415]

Could they not be used in Appleseed clinics? I'd think that would be very helpful. A bit spendy at ~450 rounds, and a bit recoil battered, but interesting and for some folks fun.

[cwcdl79]

Karen,
Multiple folks locally can help you out. I'll send you a pm

[ScubaSteve]

In a time long past M1 was a very common rifle at Appleseed events.   All the old timers burst with pride when one shows up these days so yes the m1 and 1903 are welcome at any centerfire event.

Could they not be used in Appleseed clinics? I'd think that would be very helpful. A bit spendy at ~450 rounds, and a bit recoil battered, but interesting and for some folks fun.

[LDB415]

In a time long past M1 was a very common rifle at Appleseed events.   All the old timers burst with pride when one shows up these days so yes the m1 and 1903 are welcome at any centerfire event.

Tangentially to that, are the 25M clinics ever shot with centerfire? If so, any caliber restrictions?

[eaglescouter]

In a time long past M1 was a very common rifle at Appleseed events.   All the old timers burst with pride when one shows up these days so yes the m1 and 1903 are welcome at any centerfire event.

Tangentially to that, are the 25M clinics ever shot with centerfire? If so, any caliber restrictions?

Centerfire is more than welcome at 25 meter events (unless there are prohibitions for the specific venue).

The original course of fire was designed by the US Army for the 1903 Springfield rifle, then modified for the M1 Garand (which is why you experience mag prep of 2 and 8 ).

When ammo was less expensive (2009 era) it was common in my region for an Appleseed 25 meter line to be 75% centerfire and most of those would have been 308 Winchester (mostly M1A's) or 30-06 (Mostly M1 Garands or 1903A3 Springfields).  Small numbers of 223/556 at that time, and rimfire was usually the domain of youth, women, or newer shooters.

And the CMP is still selling M1 Garand rifles for less than the prices seen at gun shows (hint hint)

[ScubaSteve]

If so, any caliber restrictions?

Yes. 8mm and under.  So no cannons.

[LDB415]

That would be cool. I really like '03s and '17s and M1s but too much recoil for me.

[DEH]

In a time long past M1 was a very common rifle at Appleseed events.   All the old timers burst with pride when one shows up these days so yes the m1 and 1903 are welcome at any centerfire event.

Tangentially to that, are the 25M clinics ever shot with centerfire? If so, any caliber restrictions?

Centerfire is more than welcome at 25 meter events (unless there are prohibitions for the specific venue).

The original course of fire was designed by the US Army for the 1903 Springfield rifle, then modified for the M1 Garand (which is why you experience mag prep of 2 and 8 ).

When ammo was less expensive (2009 era) it was common in my region for an Appleseed 25 meter line to be 75% centerfire and most of those would have been 308 Winchester (mostly M1A's) or 30-06 (Mostly M1 Garands or 1903A3 Springfields).  Small numbers of 223/556 at that time, and rimfire was usually the domain of youth, women, or newer shooters.

And the CMP is still selling M1 Garand rifles for less than the prices seen at gun shows (hint hint)

Ah the good old days.

[hawkeye]

The recoil can be managed with practice. We use to have classes on the M1 Garand at Ramseur during the lunch break. The class included history, disassembly to include the bolt and trigger group, assembly and function check. With dummy rounds, loading and loading 2 rounds without a special clip. 

[LDB415]

I had a .25-06 going on 50 years ago. I didn't like the recoil. Admittedly I'm sure I could have held it better and who knows what else and it might have been ok, but I've set an arbitrary recoil limit of .22-250 or less on this scale, https://backfire.tv/recoil/ if I ever consider another caliber. I don't hunt, just shoot and enjoy my time, so I don't need anything strong. Probably my .22 Hornet and .223/5.56 on hand are all I'll ever get around to. But learning is always good even if something likely not to be used. I like learning.

[DEH]

That is an interesting table.  I am not going to disagree with the findings on the table by making a blanket statement.  I will state that my experiences with .30-30 and .25-06 do not correlate with the table.  My .30-30 kicks me significantly harder than my .25-06.  That may have to do with the weight of the rifle or the ergonomics of the stock.

The .30-06 is not listed here, but let's assume it is comparable to the .308.  The listed free recoil energy is 18.27 and the recoil velocity is 11.62.  From my own personal experiences the 1903 has a much harder "kick" than an M1 Garand.  I suspect it is because the 1903 is lighter and the M1 Garand has a semi auto action which I suspect (Have never tested) slows down the recoil velocity.  The overall free recoil energy will be approximately the same for each rifle (assuming same cartridges used), but the recoil velocity is likely less on the Garand; thus, mitigating the felt recoil.

As I sometimes say at a KD when someone is getting overly involved in math calculations: "Sometimes you just have to ignore the math and shoot the rifle"

[LDB415]

That is an interesting table.  I am not going to disagree with the findings on the table by making a blanket statement.  I will state that my experiences with .30-30 and .25-06 do not correlate with the table.  My .30-30 kicks me significantly harder than my .25-06.  That may have to do with the weight of the rifle or the ergonomics of the stock.

The .30-06 is not listed here, but let's assume it is comparable to the .308.  The listed free recoil energy is 18.27 and the recoil velocity is 11.62.  From my own personal experiences the 1903 has a much harder "kick" than an M1 Garand.  I suspect it is because the 1903 is lighter and the M1 Garand has a semi auto action which I suspect (Have never tested) slows down the recoil velocity.  The overall free recoil energy will be approximately the same for each rifle (assuming same cartridges used), but the recoil velocity is likely less on the Garand; thus, mitigating the felt recoil.

As I sometimes say at a KD when someone is getting overly involved in math calculations: "Sometimes you just have to ignore the math and shoot the rifle"

Very good thoughts and comments. And I wonder often just how accurate that is. But it's all I've found so far to give a comparison between calibers. And I agree with your thoughts. Not that I know anything, but I believe the action cycling changes apparent recoil, sometimes significantly, compared to a fixed action bolt gun that's just bang and recoil fully. The other advantage to my arbitrary thought is lower cost for those rounds, mostly at least, compared to .3x and larger which if nothing else consume a good bit more powder per shot. It's hard to ignore the math though, it's such fun stuff.

I love this site and all the great people who contribute so much to help others. One of my "fun places".

[Fulcrum]

I've been to a few 25m events as a student when other students or an instructor has brought an M1 Garand. It's always fun to see. I'd say over 80% of shooters at the events I have attended have been shooting .22LR, but you do get some centerfire rifles, mostly 5.56/.223, some .308, and occasionally .30-06. I like seeing the rifles, but I can't say I really enjoy being right next to one on the line when I'm shooting my 10/22, especially if they have an obnoxious brake! BLAM! On the positive side, it provides a chance to practice your rifleman's bubble.

[LDB415]

Haha, yes, I'd hope to be end shooters at opposite ends of the line. Left ideally. That's the quieter end.