Unusual positions

[malabar]

For shooting, I mean. You've got a dirty mind.

So there's not a lot of weirdness you can inject into the standing position. Sure there are weird variations of prone - think Hawkins, SBU prone and urban prone - but they're not accurate enough to qualify on an AQT.

But seated, well, that's another story. Seated is where you see shooters doing weird things. And sometimes they work really well.

Here's a couple of the weird ones I've seen. They shot really well with these positions, although I don't understand how you could even get a sight picture with the first one. The second one is basically "rice paddy prone" with your butt on the ground.

Please post your own pictures of "weird" positions, and give us a report on how well they worked.

[ArmyVet]

Cross-legged with elbows on the ground (aka - Monkey-Prone) is apparently very stable. Few can do it, but those I have seen do it have very good results. I would require hospitalization if I tried it.

[malabar]

Me too.

tk

Cross-legged with elbows on the ground (aka - Monkey-Prone) is apparently very stable. Few can do it, but those I have seen do it have very good results. I would require hospitalization if I tried it.

[Cadence]

Cross-legged with elbows on the ground (aka - Monkey-Prone) is apparently very stable. Few can do it, but those I have seen do it have very good results. I would require hospitalization if I tried it.

So here is the question, (sound of a can of worms opening) - Do you award a patch to the person who shoots the score using the "monkey-Prone" position?

[malabar]

Sure. They're seated. Why not?

The better question is, is it acceptable to shoot seated from "rice paddy prone?"

I don't know the answer to that. Technically, they're squatting, not sitting. Is that important? It's a great position that we don't teach.

tk

Cross-legged with elbows on the ground (aka - Monkey-Prone) is apparently very stable. Few can do it, but those I have seen do it have very good results. I would require hospitalization if I tried it.

So here is the question, (sound of a can of worms opening) - Do you award a patch to the person who shoots the score using the "monkey-Prone" position?

[Roswell]

Not really an unusual position but more an unusual way to get into one. I transition a bit differently than most...   

https://youtu.be/BrQC4HF0xd4

[Jerry Hall]

Howdy All,
Maybe, just maybe you should watch Dan B.(taosglock) firing his M1(G) from this position!?! (pic # 1)
He pride's himself on doing it at the benchrest range at the NRAWC, firing at 1000yd..., hitting consistently     

Tis something to see.

Jerry

[malabar]

Good on you!

I haven't been able to do that in at least 20 years <g>.

tk

Not really an unusual position but more an unusual way to get into one. I transition a bit differently than most...   

https://youtu.be/BrQC4HF0xd4

[Not Sure]

My daughter took the instruction to heart after watching BaldEagle demonstrate getting elbows really low in seated position back in Dec 2020.  It definitely works for her, but it's a seated variant only for the young and flexible.

[DeoreDX]

I'm 45 and I never considered myself overly flexible but I can get elbows down in the seated position.  For me the challenge is getting a good sight picture if the target is high.  I have to make some compromises with where I place the but stock if I have to aim too high since I can't get my chest low enough or my hand high enough to support the rifle..  Works fine for 22lr and 223/556 but not something I want to do with a caliber that actually kicks.

[Monkey]

Cross-legged with elbows on the ground (aka - Monkey-Prone) is apparently very stable. Few can do it, but those I have seen do it have very good results. I would require hospitalization if I tried it.

For the record, I can not do this.  Comfortably.

Sincerely,
Monkey

[Moy]

Cross-legged with elbows on the ground (aka - Monkey-Prone) is apparently very stable. Few can do it, but those I have seen do it have very good results. I would require hospitalization if I tried it.

So here is the question, (sound of a can of worms opening) - Do you award a patch to the person who shoots the score using the "monkey-Prone" position?

Personally, no.  Elbows on the ground is prohibited by CMP rules, NRA rules, etc.

Edit: similar to shooting prone with the magazine resting on the ground.

[JustKim]

I'm not sure of the exact reason, but many women gravitate toward the open legged position -- many different varieties -- and as you know, many shoot quite well!!!

[Thaddeus]

I've seen shooters use the elbows on the ground position and for some it really works. Recommend we get an official read on whether that is acceptable for qualification or not.

[Maximum Ordinate]

I've seen shooters use the elbows on the ground position and for some it really works. Recommend we get an official read on whether that is acceptable for qualification or not.

I see no reason why it shouldn't count.  If I could do it, I probably would. 

[dond]

I've seen it used since almost the beginning of my Appleseed work. It's always been counted. 

[Chico]

Should this "monkey-prone" position be approved for Appleseed, we must remember that it is NOT an approved position for three - position shooting in the CMP,  USA Shooting,  U.S. Army Marksmanship, NRA, ISSF or any of the Army/Air Force/Marine/Navy JROTC Commands.

[Miki]

Hummm…what I was taught is that elbows on the ground is not a "good" seated, but, a poor prone.

[FiremanBob]

I advise students that even if they have the flexibility - and arm length - to get elbows on the ground, they will shoot better with elbows on the legs. Reason is that if the elbows are that low the spine is nearly horizontal, so you have to crane your neck way up to raise your eyes so you can see downrange  instead of straight down. This is very hard on the neck and extremely uncomfortable. If the spine is at a better diagonal to the ground your head will rest more naturally on the stock.

The vertical open leg looks very stable. I think women are more flexible in hips and ankles which allows getting the feet flat on the deck for a good, solid base.

[Crazyduckhunter]

I agree with Miki.
Seated position with elbows on the ground is just a really bad prone position.
And, takes away the reasoning for the seated position in the first place....High grass, logs, having to shoot over something that you cannot see over when in the prone position.
Just my humble opinion. 

[Tennessee Beast]

My experience is similar to FiremanBob's.  While I CAN shoot that way, I don't.  I find the sight alignment to be difficult to attain and an increased resistance by my back and neck muscles.  The way we teach seated works well.  But, Liberty, YO!

[Ramblin' Wreck]

Position looks good. Now, let's talk about that hot reload..... 
Wreck

Not really an unusual position but more an unusual way to get into one. I transition a bit differently than most...   

https://youtu.be/BrQC4HF0xd4

[Roswell]

Yes, I should have noted that was 2017. Soon after that Hot Reloads were outlawed and I no longer do that. AND my scores have improved. Way too many in the white on that video for my liking.    I have since learned to maximize my time better and use the seconds saved during transition to make sure the first two shots count before a mag change.

Position looks good. Now, let's talk about that hot reload..... 
Wreck

Not really an unusual position but more an unusual way to get into one. I transition a bit differently than most...   

https://youtu.be/BrQC4HF0xd4

[Manly Man]

I was following links for Mapleseed when I found a video of a pair of Canadians demonstrating their attempts to recreate an AQT.  One shooter's sitting position really confounded me.  Not something I will encourage or demonstrate.  I doubt I could replicate his position, and a sideways/inverted sight picture would really mess me up.  It seems to work pretty well for him though.

Youtube link (shooter on the right side of screen).

[Maximum Ordinate]

Let's be clear, friends.

In Stage 2, if the shooter's bottom/derriere/butt is on the ground (and all other guidance is followed), it's good enough.  "Monkey prone" is just fine.

This is for all events.  All states.  All shoot bosses.  All 25m, RKD, KD events.

We love our Boy Scout/NRA/CMP/TL/AHG friends.  We are so grateful they attend and hear America's history and heritage.  But Appleseed doesn't exist to be a feeder program for CMP or NRA competiton programs.  Rack grade rifle and hits on target is what's important.  What's important is returning America to be a Nation of Rifleman again.

Liberty, yo.

-MO

[jmdavis]

Kneeling is still legal in Appleseed, isn't it. It's certainly possible to clean the sitting stage kneeling.

[AJ Gonzales]

Let's be clear, friends.

In Stage 2, if the shooter's bottom/derriere/butt is on the ground (and all other guidance is followed), it's good enough.  "Monkey prone" is just fine.

This is for all events.  All states.  All shoot bosses.  All 25m, RKD, KD events.

We love our Boy Scout/NRA/CMP/TL/AHG friends.  We are so grateful they attend and hear America's history and heritage.  But Appleseed doesn't exist to be a feeder program for CMP or NRA competiton programs.  Rack grade rifle and hits on target is what's important.  What's important is returning America to be a Nation of Rifleman again.

Liberty, yo.

-MO

If that's the case, then certainly resting the rifle on the mag in the prone position is cool too, right?

Liberty?

[Maximum Ordinate]

If that's the case, then certainly resting the rifle on the mag in the prone position is cool too, right?

Liberty?

[Mrs. Smith]

Let's be clear, friends.

In Stage 2, if the shooter's bottom/derriere/butt is on the ground (and all other guidance is followed), it's good enough.  "Monkey prone" is just fine.

This is for all events.  All states.  All shoot bosses.  All 25m, RKD, KD events.

We love our Boy Scout/NRA/CMP/TL/AHG friends.  We are so grateful they attend and hear America's history and heritage.  But Appleseed doesn't exist to be a feeder program for CMP or NRA competiton programs.  Rack grade rifle and hits on target is what's important.  What's important is returning America to be a Nation of Rifleman again.

Liberty, yo.

-MO

If that's the case, then certainly resting the rifle on the mag in the prone position is cool too, right?

Liberty?

When did the mag become a body part? That's pretty clearly the defining criteria, and what makes monkey prone acceptable and magazines not.

It states unequivocally in the manual that the elements of the seated position have a lot of latitude, due to a wide diversity of body geometry. There's an established precedent. I got a guy here who shoots all seated and prone stages upright and cross legged (think standing, but on your butt.) Why? He has a medical condition that fused his spine for its entire length.

I don't recall anything about "equipment geometry."

[Caife Trean]

Ian from Forgotten Weapons once did a video on a bizarre confederate sniper rifle designed originally for shooting in a supine position. Apparently you would lie on your back and rest the barrel on your thigh. He talks about this starting around the 8:45 mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi-S_horZGk