Author Topic: Scope advice  (Read 442 times)

Offline FlyBoy2019

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Scope advice
« on: January 09, 2019, 06:44:38 PM »
Help!
I need advice on what scope to get for an upcoming Appleseed event this February. I’m sure it’s probably been covered before, but alas.

I’m in my mid sixties, so weight is a small factor. Also, I do like to see where hits are going, and I like an ability to focus the reticle. $100 to $200 price range is no problem.
Thanks in advance.
Tim

Offline Cmdr of Flying Saucer X-2

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Re: Scope advice
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2019, 09:10:17 PM »
You didn't mention what type of rifle you'll be using. If you're using a .22, check out the Nikon PROSTAFF Target EFR. I got mine less than a year ago and it seems Nikon discontinued it since I got mine. Doing an internet search, they can still be found in the upper $100s. If you need scope rings it'll jump you above your stated $200 price range.

The nice thing about this scope it has an adjustable objective/parallax. From 10 yards to infinity. Since you'll most likely be shooting at 25m, the adjustable AO is nice. A lot (most) of other rim fire scopes are set at a fixed parallax of 50 yards. I would think this is what you meant by being able to focus the reticle?

I'm no scope expert however the glass is clear and the scope functions well for me. As far as weight, I believe it's pretty much the same as any other 3-9x 40mm scope.

https://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/nikon-products/product-archive/riflescopes/prostaff-target-efr.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-Overview

Quote
The Prostaff Target EFR (Extended Focus Range) is the ultimate in rimfire optics. For added precision at short range, this scope is designed with 1/4" windage and elevation adjustments at 50 yards instead of the traditional 100 yard adjustments. With 80 MOA of internal adjustment and an adjustable objective with a close focus of 10 yards out to infinity, you can engage virtually any target with precision accuracy. Built from high grade aluminum, the Target EFR is durable and completely waterproof and fogproof with a nitrogen filled and O-ring sealed body. Designed for optimal performance with the .22 LR and air rifles yet versatile enough to outperform most competitor's heavy duty scopes, the Target EFR works seamlessly with nearly all types of ammunition. There is not a scope on the market that compares to the quality and function of the Target EFR from Nikon. The positive 1/4" turrets are resettable to zero and give you repeatable precision. Covered by a limited lifetime warranty.


Offline Monkey

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Re: Scope advice
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2019, 10:41:32 PM »
You didn't mention what type of rifle you'll be using. If you're using a .22, check out the Nikon PROSTAFF Target EFR. I got mine less than a year ago and it seems Nikon discontinued it since I got mine. Doing an internet search, they can still be found in the upper $100s. If you need scope rings it'll jump you above your stated $200 price range.

The nice thing about this scope it has an adjustable objective/parallax. From 10 yards to infinity. Since you'll most likely be shooting at 25m, the adjustable AO is nice. A lot (most) of other rim fire scopes are set at a fixed parallax of 50 yards. I would think this is what you meant by being able to focus the reticle?

I'm no scope expert however the glass is clear and the scope functions well for me. As far as weight, I believe it's pretty much the same as any other 3-9x 40mm scope.

https://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/nikon-products/product-archive/riflescopes/prostaff-target-efr.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-Overview

Quote
The Prostaff Target EFR (Extended Focus Range) is the ultimate in rimfire optics. For added precision at short range, this scope is designed with 1/4" windage and elevation adjustments at 50 yards instead of the traditional 100 yard adjustments. With 80 MOA of internal adjustment and an adjustable objective with a close focus of 10 yards out to infinity, you can engage virtually any target with precision accuracy. Built from high grade aluminum, the Target EFR is durable and completely waterproof and fogproof with a nitrogen filled and O-ring sealed body. Designed for optimal performance with the .22 LR and air rifles yet versatile enough to outperform most competitor's heavy duty scopes, the Target EFR works seamlessly with nearly all types of ammunition. There is not a scope on the market that compares to the quality and function of the Target EFR from Nikon. The positive 1/4" turrets are resettable to zero and give you repeatable precision. Covered by a limited lifetime warranty.

What X-2 Cdr said.  +1 on the Nikon Prostaff Target, and anything Nikon in general.

If you are running a 22lr and are super budget minded, may I suggest the UTG Bug Buster - $75 on Amazon, and will absolutely do the job at an Appleseed.  Comes with quick disconnect rings. All my loaners have this scope, and have several Rifleman scores using them.

Link here for your convenience.
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"Scoring is a function of great execution, and winning Is the result, but thinking about winning can pull your focus off of proper execution in a competition. Thinking about process is the answer."- Lanny Bassham

Offline BrotherPilot

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Re: Scope advice
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2019, 11:08:20 PM »
Nikon Prostaff Rimfire II is great on a .22.  I used it for a while until my daughter appropriated it.  Excellent scope and not at all expensive.

Offline The Wolfhound

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Re: Scope advice
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2019, 08:22:42 AM »
If going cheap is a desire  Simmons makes a decent .22 scope with the AO feature in the $90 range.  Bushnel has some very nice glass between $100 and $150 for .22LR including at least one model with a BDC function.  My wife's .22 has this and it was a nice upgrade from her previous Simmons, hers is a 3.5-10X.  Prices are based on previous Amazon purchases.

Online scuzzy

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Re: Scope advice
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2019, 08:46:49 AM »
Nikon Prostaff Rimfire II is great on a .22.  I used it for a while until my daughter appropriated it.  Excellent scope and not at all expensive.

Did you have to use a cantilever mount to get it mounted far forward enough? That's a long scope at 12.5 inches. I've always had problems getting big scopes far forward enough to get proper eye relief. I see so many shooters with large scopes that in order to see through them they are doing a 'turtle neck' instead of turkey neck.

I've got a bugbuster similar to the one that Monkey posted about - shot a 234 with it last event. Nice and short so can get setup to get good eye relief. Decent for the price. Watch out though - the one linked to on Amazon has some people complaining that it's not as good as prior UTG scopes. One of those best to try as soon as you get it and if not good return within the 30 day return policy.

Note: Be sure to use Amazon smile - here's link to use Smile with RWVA (Appleseed) selected already:

http://smile.amazon.com/ch/20-0850104
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 08:48:36 AM by scuzzy »
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Offline BrotherPilot

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Re: Scope advice
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2019, 09:43:39 AM »
Nikon Prostaff Rimfire II is great on a .22.  I used it for a while until my daughter appropriated it.  Excellent scope and not at all expensive.

Did you have to use a cantilever mount to get it mounted far forward enough? That's a long scope at 12.5 inches. I've always had problems getting big scopes far forward enough to get proper eye relief. I see so many shooters with large scopes that in order to see through them they are doing a 'turtle neck' instead of turkey neck.

Yes, I did.  Here's a picture from Fireman Bob's blog on the 10/22.  The cantilever worked well but I did have to add a cheek riser.  The cheek riser was made even more necessary by the Tandem-Kross bolt adapter (my daughter is left handed) which displaced the rear sight and made the scope necessary.  Regular 10/22 scope mounts won't be nearly as bad in terms of the need for a cheek riser. 

JM

Offline Monkey

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Re: Scope advice
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2019, 10:12:00 AM »
Again, assuming a 10/22 platform:

For achiveing proper eye relief, I like the EGW 20 MOA mount, esp for the longer scopes.
"5 minutes for this stage - that's like a week in people years!"

"Responsibility is a unique concept... You may share it with others, but your portion is not diminished. You may delegate it, but it is still with you... If responsibility is rightfully yours, no evasion, or ignorance or passing the blame can shift the burden to someone else. Unless you can point your finger at the man who is responsible when something goes wrong, then you have never had anyone really responsible.”
― Hyman G. Rickover

"Scoring is a function of great execution, and winning Is the result, but thinking about winning can pull your focus off of proper execution in a competition. Thinking about process is the answer."- Lanny Bassham

Offline RedLeg

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Re: Scope advice
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2019, 12:26:34 PM »
The aforementioned Nikon Prostaff Rimfire is an exceptional scope for the money and I am particularly fond of their BDC reticle.

I'm also a huge fan of 2-7x scopes on my rimfire rifles.  I run both Redfield Revolution and Leupold VX-Freedom lines in 2-7x33 and have been very pleased with both.  The Leupold 2-7x33 Rimfire model has a very nice BDC reticle for shooting longer distances as well. Both the Redfield and Leupold are pretty compact and lightweight.

In order to keep the scope height down to a manageable level, I forego the cantilever rings and use an extended base to get the scope mounted a bit further forward.  Volquartsen has a very nice extended base, but it's a little pricey.  I have had good success with the Extended Reversible Picatinny Rail from Tactical Innovations (https://www.tacticalinc.com/catalog/category/774/607/2080).  As you can see, they are made in different heights, but I just run the standard 3/8" height. 

Another option to consider if you just have an issue focusing on the front site and really don't need the magnification is a decent little red dot optic along the lines of the Bushnell TRS-25, Holosun, or Sig Romeo 3.  I've run both and actually shot my first Appleseed with the Bushnell and had no issues shooting rifleman with my 50+ year-old eyes.

Lastly, if budget is a concern, look at a fixed power scope from the aforementioned manufacturers.  A fixed 4x is plenty enough to get you through an Appleseed and even out to 100yds.  They also tend to be a lot more durable due to the lack of complexity as compared to a variable.

Attached are a couple pics of a 10/22 Takedown with the Redfield Revolution 2-7x33 in QD rings on a Magpul Backpacker stock.  Note that this rifle does not have the extended rail under the scope when the pic was taken, though it does now.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 12:51:22 PM by RedLeg »
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace.
We seek not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams

"Posterity! You will never know, how much it cost the present Generation, to preserve your Freedom! I hope you will make a good Use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in Heaven, that I ever took half the Pains to preserve it." - John Adams in a letter to Abigail, 26 April 1777

Offline Monkey

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Re: Scope advice
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2019, 12:48:17 PM »
The aforementioned Nikon Prostaff is an exceptional scope for the money and am particularly fond of their BDC reticle.

I'm also a huge fan of 2-7x scopes on my rimfire rifles.  I run both Redfield Revolution and Leupold VX-Freedom lines in 2-7x33 and have been very pleased with both.  The Leupold 2-7x33 Rimfire model has a very nice BDC reticle for shooting longer distances as well. Both the Redfield and Leupold are pretty compact and lightweight.

In order to keep the scope height down to a manageable level, I forego the cantilever rings and use an extended base to get the scope mounted a bit further forward.  Volquartsen has a very nice extended base, but it's a little pricey.  I have had good success with the Extended Reversible Picatinny Rail from Tactical Innovations (https://www.tacticalinc.com/catalog/category/774/607/2080).  As you can see, they are made in different heights, but I just run the standard 3/8" height.  I don't find the need for an MOA mount unless I'm running my .22LR out to beyond 100yds.

Another option to consider if you just have an issue focusing on the front site and really don't need the magnification is a decent little red dot optic along the lines of the Bushnell TLR-25 or Sig Romeo 3.  I've run both and actually shot my first Appleseed with the Bushnell and had no issues shooting rifleman with my 50+ year-old eyes.

Lastly, if budget is a concern, look at a fixed power scope from the aforementioned manufacturers.  A fixed 4x is plenty enough to get you through an Appleseed and even out to 100yds.  They also tend to be a lot more durable due to the lack of complexity as compared to a variable.

Attached are a couple pics of a 10/22 Takedown with the Redfield Revolution 2-7x33 in QD rings on a Magpul Backpacker stock.  Note that this rifle does not have the extended rail under the scope when the pic was taken, though it does now.

Side question:  Do you run that X-22 Backpacker with a USGI sling, and if so, how do you mount it?
"5 minutes for this stage - that's like a week in people years!"

"Responsibility is a unique concept... You may share it with others, but your portion is not diminished. You may delegate it, but it is still with you... If responsibility is rightfully yours, no evasion, or ignorance or passing the blame can shift the burden to someone else. Unless you can point your finger at the man who is responsible when something goes wrong, then you have never had anyone really responsible.”
― Hyman G. Rickover

"Scoring is a function of great execution, and winning Is the result, but thinking about winning can pull your focus off of proper execution in a competition. Thinking about process is the answer."- Lanny Bassham

Offline RedLeg

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Re: Scope advice
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2019, 01:26:04 PM »
The aforementioned Nikon Prostaff is an exceptional scope for the money and am particularly fond of their BDC reticle.

I'm also a huge fan of 2-7x scopes on my rimfire rifles.  I run both Redfield Revolution and Leupold VX-Freedom lines in 2-7x33 and have been very pleased with both.  The Leupold 2-7x33 Rimfire model has a very nice BDC reticle for shooting longer distances as well. Both the Redfield and Leupold are pretty compact and lightweight.

In order to keep the scope height down to a manageable level, I forego the cantilever rings and use an extended base to get the scope mounted a bit further forward.  Volquartsen has a very nice extended base, but it's a little pricey.  I have had good success with the Extended Reversible Picatinny Rail from Tactical Innovations (https://www.tacticalinc.com/catalog/category/774/607/2080).  As you can see, they are made in different heights, but I just run the standard 3/8" height.  I don't find the need for an MOA mount unless I'm running my .22LR out to beyond 100yds.

Another option to consider if you just have an issue focusing on the front site and really don't need the magnification is a decent little red dot optic along the lines of the Bushnell TLR-25 or Sig Romeo 3.  I've run both and actually shot my first Appleseed with the Bushnell and had no issues shooting rifleman with my 50+ year-old eyes.

Lastly, if budget is a concern, look at a fixed power scope from the aforementioned manufacturers.  A fixed 4x is plenty enough to get you through an Appleseed and even out to 100yds.  They also tend to be a lot more durable due to the lack of complexity as compared to a variable.

Attached are a couple pics of a 10/22 Takedown with the Redfield Revolution 2-7x33 in QD rings on a Magpul Backpacker stock.  Note that this rifle does not have the extended rail under the scope when the pic was taken, though it does now.

Side question:  Do you run that X-22 Backpacker with a USGI sling, and if so, how do you mount it?

I do not currently run a USGI sling on that rifle.  Were I to try, I'd check how thick the polymer in the hand guard is to see if I could mount a sling stud at the front of it, then use the rear QD socket. I'll try to remember to take a look at that when I get home this evening and report back. 

I do use QD studs on the standard Magpul 10/22 and 10/22 Takedown stocks for my USGI slings and am a big fan of that stock.  At our last Appleseed, I was able to quickly shorten the stock on one of those rifles between strings to loan to a youngster.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace.
We seek not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams

"Posterity! You will never know, how much it cost the present Generation, to preserve your Freedom! I hope you will make a good Use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in Heaven, that I ever took half the Pains to preserve it." - John Adams in a letter to Abigail, 26 April 1777

Offline FlyBoy2019

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Re: Scope advice
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2019, 02:25:56 PM »
You didn't mention what type of rifle you'll be using.

You are right, sorry about that. I’ll be using a Tactical Solution X-Ring, 10/22 clone. This has the rail milled in the receiver. I’m using a Magpul X-22 Hunter stock and I have the cheek risers. Yes, that charging handle is on the left side for now. This is the now discontinued, but still available, ambidextrous receiver. Ask me where you can get these if interested.

I’ll be switching the handle over to the right side for Appleseed as I am right handed.

Offline BrotherPilot

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Re: Scope advice
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2019, 02:29:42 PM »
You didn't mention what type of rifle you'll be using.

You are right, sorry about that. I’ll be using a Tactical Solution X-Ring, 10/22 clone. This has the rail milled in the receiver. I’m using a Magpul X-22 Hunter stock and I have the cheek risers. Yes, that charging handle is on the left side for now. This is the now discontinued, but still available, ambidextrous receiver. Ask me where you can get these if interested.

I’ll be switching the handle over to the right side for Appleseed as I am right handed.

I'll ask...where'd you get the receiver? I never knew there was such an animal.

Offline RedLeg

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Re: Scope advice
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2019, 02:45:32 PM »

I'll ask...where'd you get the receiver? I never knew there was such an animal.

Not sure about that particular receiver, but I have been eyeballing the Magnum Research Switchbolt rifles.  https://www.magnumresearch.com/switchbolt-22-lr/
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace.
We seek not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams

"Posterity! You will never know, how much it cost the present Generation, to preserve your Freedom! I hope you will make a good Use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in Heaven, that I ever took half the Pains to preserve it." - John Adams in a letter to Abigail, 26 April 1777

Offline FlyBoy2019

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Re: Scope advice
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2019, 06:18:14 PM »
You didn't mention what type of rifle you'll be using.

You are right, sorry about that. I’ll be using a Tactical Solution X-Ring, 10/22 clone. This has the rail milled in the receiver. I’m using a Magpul X-22 Hunter stock and I have the cheek risers. Yes, that charging handle is on the left side for now. This is the now discontinued, but still available, ambidextrous receiver. Ask me where you can get these if interested.

I’ll be switching the handle over to the right side for Appleseed as I am right handed.

I'll ask...where'd you get the receiver? I never knew there was such an animal.

Here’s the direct link:

https://store.wirthweinguns.com/Tac-Sol-Ambidextrous-X-Ring-Receiver-Matte-Black-p/ts-10r-am-mb.htm

There are 5 left in black, like mine. Ask Lee Wirthwein, owner of Wirthwein Guns, if he has a discount code for that receiver, for an even better deal. Remember when comparing to a standard Ruger receiver, what comes with a TacSol receiver that you have to pay extra for the traditional route. You get the butter smooth, dual spring and stainless steel guide rod TacSol stainless bolt and charging handle, a work of art. You get the special TacSol barrel clamp and bolts to fix the barrel to the receiver, the takedown screw, the rubberized bolt buffer, and two nice stainless steel trigger group pins. I bought a TacSol barrel for mine, a stainless steel sleeved, light weight, fluted aluminum 16 incher. When you add it all up, yes, it’s more expensive than a standard Ruger, and believe me, I love my standard Ruger 10/22’s, but these things are amazing.

TacSol has discontinued the ambi receivers, so if you want one, now is your chance. They still make left side chargers, but only for shooters on their sponsored team.

More photos below. The trigger is the new drop in from Tandemkross...

Offline FlyBoy2019

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Re: Scope advice
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2019, 03:16:12 PM »
Thanks to everyone for the great advice. I decided on the current Nikon Prostaff Rimfire II, 3-9X40. Their original Prostaff scope is no longer available.

From pictures, I could not determine if the Rimfire II had a way to adjust the reticle focus since Nikon changed from the rearmost ocular lens focus ring, to a ring closer to the magnification focus that is essentially a lock ring. You focus with the ocular lens and then lock down the lock ring to hold its position. I finally got the time to see one at a local gun store and examin it. Nice scope, so I bought it.

It has a fixed parallax setting at 50 yards. This should work fine with Appleseed's 25 yard targets. The advantage is lesser weight, complexity and cost compared to the adjustable objective scopes with either an adjustable Objective Lens or a side adjustment on the left side of the scope.

Recall my requirements were, adjustable reticle focus, adjustable magnification, and adjustable parallax. Well, 2 out of 3 ain’t bad for $120.00 and a relatively light weight scope with the Nikon optics. I’ve attached a couple of pictures. Good luck to me. 😎 Will sight it in this coming week and report here.

Offline RedLeg

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Re: Scope advice
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2019, 03:52:54 PM »
Way to go!  I'm sure you'll be more than pleased with that optic.

Nice looking rig!
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace.
We seek not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams

"Posterity! You will never know, how much it cost the present Generation, to preserve your Freedom! I hope you will make a good Use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in Heaven, that I ever took half the Pains to preserve it." - John Adams in a letter to Abigail, 26 April 1777

Offline FlyBoy2019

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Re: Scope advice
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2019, 07:00:27 PM »
Way to go!  I'm sure you'll be more than pleased with that optic.

Nice looking rig!

Thank you sir...