Author Topic: Rockcastle Shooting Center - KD - 1,000 Yards  (Read 1530 times)

Offline Two Mikes

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Rockcastle Shooting Center - KD - 1,000 Yards
« on: July 21, 2016, 07:02:09 PM »
The Rockcastle KD has captured my interest because of the ability to shoot out to 1,000 yards.     Is that part of the event limited to larger calibers than 223/556? 

Strelok shows that I can do the 38 MOA all on my reticle with a 55gr M193.   Which is good in theory but in practice ... which is why I'm asking.

I think my skills are up to the task as I've qualified at other KD's.
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Offline dond

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Re: Rockcastle Shooting Center - KD - 1,000 Yards
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2016, 09:16:05 PM »
While I hope to get to 1000 yards, it is not a certainty. It will depend on circumstances, such as time. However, I do not plan to restrict it to larger calibers. But you may have difficulties at that distance with 223s.

Offline Guntuckian

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Re: Rockcastle Shooting Center - KD - 1,000 Yards
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2016, 11:06:17 PM »
Thunder Valley at the Rockcastle Shooting Center has no caliber restrictions, unlike most ranges where KD Appleseeds are held.  Additionally, the natural limestone knobs (small mountains) that completely  encircle the valley tend to reduce the crosswinds relative to what is typically seen at many KD Appleseed ranges.   This may help in allowing even 55 grain M193 to work well out to 600 yards and beyond. Heavier bullets will do better at distances longer than 600 yards, of course, but even 55 or 62 grain should do well. 

We still have 11 spots on the line available, with 9 already taken.  This is likely to be a sell-out, so do not wait too long to sign up.

-- Gary
--------------------------------------------------
1st Appleseed:           04/20/2013 - Palm Bay, FL
Rifleman:                   02/01/2014 - Palm Bay, FL
Cleared 1st Redcoat:   02/02/2014 - Palm Bay, FL
1st KD:  Palm Bay 8/14
1st IBC:  Dunnellon 4/15
Palm Bay 4/17 KD Rifleman
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Offline Two Mikes

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Re: Rockcastle Shooting Center - KD - 1,000 Yards
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2016, 11:58:59 AM »
Thank you for the info.  I'll see you there.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 07:21:11 PM by Two Mikes »
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Offline Guntuckian

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Re: Rockcastle Shooting Center - KD - 1,000 Yards
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2016, 03:25:07 AM »
Shooting at 1,000 yards is a bit different than shooting out to the Rifleman's Quarter Mile.  There are several things that come into play.  First, you have to have a rifle that can reach out that far within the limitations of your sights.  If you are using iron sights, and most WW I and WW II main battle rifles in 30 caliber do, then you usually can get there fine, and even a good bit further.

On the other hand, if  you are shooting an AR-15 carbine with a 16-inch barrel, you may not be able to get there, within the limits of your sights, or of your scope.

If you are shooting a scoped rifle, you are most commonly limited by the elevation and windage limits of your scope.  If you shooting a heavier cartridge than a typical 5.56 bullet mass, say, like the .308, you need about 45 MOA of come-up, on average, to get to 1,000 yards from 100 yards.  But, most scopes have a total range of only about 50 to 70 MOA of total range adjustment in elevation and windage.  If you are sighted in at 100 yards, in about the middle of your scope adjustment range, then you only have about half that total, or about 25 to 35 MOA, of come-up adjustment still available.  This limits the maximum range at which you can shoot in the absence of any wind.  And, it is not going to reach out to 1,000 yards.  You are going to be about 10 MOA short, at least, in come-up adjustment range.

Now, there are two ways to fix this problem.  The old school way was simply to shim the rear of the scope in the ring, raising the rear of the scope a little, and this can give you another 5-10 MOA of come-up, but this comes with a price.  You end up having to run your scope up to nearly the maximum elevation it can reach, and, at that setting, you simply have no windage adjustment range left.  You also run the risk of damaging the tube of your scope if you try to push it this far, as you are not in the rings stress-free but are actually putting some stress torque on the tube. For this reason, this method is rarely used anymore.

The more modern way to fix this problem is to use what is known as a 20 MOA base.  This works as follows.  This attaches to your receiver, and your scope rings attach to it. It goes between your scope rings and the receiver of your rifle.  How does this work?  Well, assume you are sighted in at 100 yards.  Both your scope and your bore are coincident such that the Point of Aim and Point of Impact are both located at the center of your 100 yard target, if you are sighted-in at that distance.

Now, assume that a 20 MOA base is inserted into the system, raising the rear of the scope by 20 MOA, but keeping the stress on the scope tube uniformly applied, instead of being torqued as when using a single scope ring shim.  With this arrangement, your Point of Aim is at the center of the target, but your Point of Impact is now 20 MOA higher.  In other words, you are now shooting 20 inches high at 100 yards.  To adjust this using your scope, you now crank your scope down 20 MOA, towards the bottom of its range, leaving about 5 to 15 MOA of additional "down" adjustment available.  But, you have increased your come-up adjustment range from 25 to 35 MOA to about 45 to 55 MOA (getting an extra 20 MOA from the scope that is actually being used, now!)

This helps two ways.  First, you can get on out to 1,000+ yards in a .308, or to nearly 1,200 yards in a flatter shooting cartridge.  And, second, you are now typically using your scope backed off  quite a bit from its maximum elevation capability, which ends up giving you considerably more adjustment range in terms of windage, too.  It is a case of you can have your cake and eat it too, in terms of reaching out to 1,000 yards, while still having windage adjustment range capability to handle a good amount of windage, too.  (Remember, if you only shimmed your scope tube, to just squeeze the maximum range out, you are up near the stops on your upwards elevation adjustment range, and, at that point, you have little to no windage adjustment range left.)   

Shooting at 1,000 yards is a possibility at Thunder Valley, depending on Shoot Boss discretion, time availability, and a host of other factors.  We may or may not get to do any significant shooting at that distance.  But, at Appleseed KD events, we always like to stretch our legs out a bit, if possible, especially with rifles that are capable of benefiting from the longer range.

Hope that this provides some insights and considerations and gives everyone just a taste of 1,000 yard shooting details. 

But, remember, the focus of this KD will be mastering the Rifleman's Quarter Mile, that is, we will be focusing on shooting at 100, 200, 300, and 400 yards.  The 1,000 Yard possibility is just that, a possibility, time and equipment permitting.  Think of it as a bonus, if we get to do it.

It is not just about using heavier mass bullets, which can certainly reduce wind effects, and give better accuracy at longer ranges such as 300 and 400 yards in higher winds.  It is also about scope limitations and sight limitations, in general, especially if we are talking about 1,000 yards. 

-- Gary
--------------------------------------------------
1st Appleseed:           04/20/2013 - Palm Bay, FL
Rifleman:                   02/01/2014 - Palm Bay, FL
Cleared 1st Redcoat:   02/02/2014 - Palm Bay, FL
1st KD:  Palm Bay 8/14
1st IBC:  Dunnellon 4/15
Palm Bay 4/17 KD Rifleman
NRA Certified (Rifle and Pistol Instructor, RSO)
 
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Offline Burnett

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Re: Rockcastle Shooting Center - KD - 1,000 Yards
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2016, 12:52:40 PM »
A buddy of mine and I are interested in this event.
Question I have, for my Garand, I have the Greek surplus ammo from the CMP that attracts a magnet.
Is it OK to shoot that there?
My AR also seems to like M855, which also attracts a magnet.
Thanks,
Burnett

Offline Guntuckian

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Re: Rockcastle Shooting Center - KD - 1,000 Yards
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2016, 01:00:26 PM »
No problems with either Greek M2 30-06 or 5.56 M855.  No tracers, please.  Other than that, just about any center-fire rifle ammo is fine.

-- Gary
--------------------------------------------------
1st Appleseed:           04/20/2013 - Palm Bay, FL
Rifleman:                   02/01/2014 - Palm Bay, FL
Cleared 1st Redcoat:   02/02/2014 - Palm Bay, FL
1st KD:  Palm Bay 8/14
1st IBC:  Dunnellon 4/15
Palm Bay 4/17 KD Rifleman
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Offline Burnett

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Re: Rockcastle Shooting Center - KD - 1,000 Yards
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2016, 01:46:33 PM »
Very good.
Thanks.

Offline Two Mikes

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Re: Rockcastle Shooting Center - KD - 1,000 Yards
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2016, 01:10:00 PM »
I'm all signed up and hotel reservation is made.     I'm looking forward to this and getting data on my new setup.

Guntuckian, I went with a 20MOA base for my scope.  I have one on my 10/22 its worked out well for 200 yards as I seem to have enough elevation and windage when I need it.

See you soon

Mike



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Offline Proto

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Re: Rockcastle Shooting Center - KD - 1,000 Yards
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2016, 10:53:31 PM »
Hello, I'm interested in attending this event. Asking about recommendations first though. I'm from Illinois. The rifle I have access to is a Thompson center encore pro hunter in .204 ruger. Single shot with 4-16 Nikon coyote hunting scope.  How would it fair for a KD like this? If not so well, I will probably hold off until I pickup another rifle.
First Appleseed- 9/10/2016

Offline Guntuckian

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Re: Rockcastle Shooting Center - KD - 1,000 Yards
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2016, 12:28:04 AM »
Your Thompson Center Encore would certainly be capable of shooting over all the various distances up to 400 yards.  However, it would be very difficult to get all 10 shots off at 200 yards within the time limit, being a single shot rifle.  A magazine fed rifle would be best. On stages 1 and 4, at 100 and 400 yards, you would have plenty of time, though.  But at 200 yards, especially, and at 300 yards, too, the time element would be difficult.

That all being said, it is entirely possible to shoot a Rifleman score with a single shot rifle.  It has been done.  Ultimately, it is the skill of the shooter that matters, most, not the type of rifle.  I personally have seen one shooter score just under a Rifleman score using a single shot rifle that was a falling block. The rifle had belonged to his grandfather, and this shooter was in his 60's. The Thomson Center Encore, however, is a break action and that is a bit slower to operate than a falling block.  You would have to practice laying out your rounds on your mat, or, for standing, in your trigger side pocket, and learning how to load quickly in position.  It can be done, if you have practiced enough with snap cap dummy rounds to become skilled enough.  This can be done at home, without going to the range.  It should never be done with live rounds, save at the range, obviously.

You could still get come-up data for it, though.  And, learn techniques for reading the wind, and making the necessary windage corrections.  These would all be good tools to add to "your tool box."  You would also learn a good bit that would prove useful in selecting a second rifle, too.  The scope you have would work fine up to 400 yards.  And, probably a good bit further, too.  You probably won't have enough elevation adjustment range to get much past 500 yards, though.  But, out to 400 yards, it should work fine.

In the past, I have seen shooters that made wooden loading blocks like reloaders use, to hold their rounds, too, beside them, for the seated and prone positions.  10 holes. 

--Gary
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 12:32:15 AM by Guntuckian »
--------------------------------------------------
1st Appleseed:           04/20/2013 - Palm Bay, FL
Rifleman:                   02/01/2014 - Palm Bay, FL
Cleared 1st Redcoat:   02/02/2014 - Palm Bay, FL
1st KD:  Palm Bay 8/14
1st IBC:  Dunnellon 4/15
Palm Bay 4/17 KD Rifleman
NRA Certified (Rifle and Pistol Instructor, RSO)
 
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  )V        O.___.                    
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Offline Proto

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Re: Rockcastle Shooting Center - KD - 1,000 Yards
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2016, 03:14:01 AM »
Hmm. I am thinking I should probably hold off till next year then. The rifle is my uncles and I havn't shot that one much. My cabinet consist of 3 22lrs, a 17hmr, and 1250fps 17cal air rifle. My uncle let's me take any gun of his home when I want but I havn't ventured into the larger calibers very much.

My plan is to eventually pick up a 308 Tika or Rem 700. Then spend about equal on a quality scope. Taking my first Appleseed and scoring rifleman first day got me hooked. Just might have to pace myself for events.

First Appleseed- 9/10/2016

Offline NewRifleman78

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Re: Rockcastle Shooting Center - KD - 1,000 Yards
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2016, 07:19:12 PM »
Proto, I will be attending this event as well.  I have a rifle that you are more than welcome to use if you'd like.  I understand the desire to be familiar with the rifle, but the offer is there.  You should have plenty of time for sighting, getting used to the rifle, etc.  shoot me a pm if interested. 
First Appleseed - July 23-24, 2016
Qualified Rifleman - July 24, 2016 , 227/250 on AQT, 25m
First KD - July 24, 2016, 35/50 on AQT

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Offline Two Mikes

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Re: Rockcastle Shooting Center - KD - 1,000 Yards
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2016, 02:30:06 PM »
We ended up being limited to 400 yards in a bumpy hay field. 


« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 05:04:36 PM by Two Mikes »
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Online little buddy

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Re: Rockcastle Shooting Center - KD - 1,000 Yards
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2016, 02:33:41 PM »
While I hope to get to 1000 yards, it is not a certainty. It will depend on circumstances, such as time. However, I do not plan to restrict it to larger calibers. But you may have difficulties at that distance with 223s.


we had a great time. instruction was great as always from dond and google. there was no gurantee for us to use the 1000 yard range as dond stated, It will depend on circumstances.

little buddy