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Suggested reading from Fred

Started by Laredo, September 02, 2015, 05:12:50 PM

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Laredo

This past weekend, Fred suggested the following book.

Its a great read for many reasons.  I would love to hear comments on the book.  I am not quite done with it.  I will post up some comments when I am done.  But, I can say that its fascinating historically,  and a must read for any rifleman!

https://archive.org/details/suggestionstomi00whelgoog

Further, I highly recommend doing a bit of research on the author.  Very interesting man. 
April 21-22, 2012 - 1st
Oct      6-7, 2012 - 2nd
April 20-21, 2013 - 3rd
Sept     7-8, 2013 - 4th - Rifleman!!

"The cost of a thing is the amount of life required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run. When one has obtained those essentials necessary for well-being â€" food, shelter, warmth, and clothing, there is an alternative to struggling through steel jungles for the luxuries. That's to adventure on life itself, one's vacation from humble toil having commenced." -Townsend Whelen

Laredo

From the book:

"The gun-sling should be used whenever it is possible to do so.  It is even more of a factor in fine marksmanship than the wind-guage.  By its use the rifle may be held absolutely steady; in rapid fire it facilitates the quick return of the rifle to the point of aim, and it takes up almost half of the recoil."
Townsend Whelen
1909

"One cannot become an expert without its aide."
Townsend Whelen
1909



April 21-22, 2012 - 1st
Oct      6-7, 2012 - 2nd
April 20-21, 2013 - 3rd
Sept     7-8, 2013 - 4th - Rifleman!!

"The cost of a thing is the amount of life required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run. When one has obtained those essentials necessary for well-being â€" food, shelter, warmth, and clothing, there is an alternative to struggling through steel jungles for the luxuries. That's to adventure on life itself, one's vacation from humble toil having commenced." -Townsend Whelen

Fred


   BTW, at the old club some of us used (in the cheap centerfire days) to post a target at 25 with three silhouettes scaled for 75 meters (IIRC), 175 meters, and 250 meters (275 yards), load up with a 20-rd mag, stand up, start the clock, and have 60 seconds to put the entire mag on the target.

   The winner would have six hits (min) each at the first two targets, with the balance (and determining winning score) the number of hits on the 250M target.

    Let me tell you: 1. You burn a LOT of centerfire - 5 attempts = 5 MINUTES of shooting, and 100 rds downrange; and

       2. You found out you can become a heck of a speed (and accurate) standing shooter (accurate, since it was the number of hits at 250 that counted).

     So, I can sure second the colonel's advice on sling use. O0

     And, after we'd done this a few times, to win you'd have to get 8-10 hits on the 250m target! (Remember, that's standing! Or, "hind leg" as us 'veterans' used to say. :) )
"Ready to eat dirt and sweat bore solvent?" - Ask me how to become an RWVA volunteer!

      "...but he that stands it now, deserves the thanks of man and woman alike..."   Paine

     "If you can read this without a silly British accent, thank a Revolutionary War veteran" - Anon.

     "We have it in our power to begin the world over again" - Thomas Paine

     What about it, do-nothings? You heard the man, jump on in...

scuzzy

Quote from: Fred on September 03, 2015, 05:24:02 PM

     And, after we'd done this a few times, to win you'd have to get 8-10 hits on the 250m target! (Remember, that's standing! Or, "hind leg" as us 'veterans' used to say. :) )

LOL - I was thinking 8-10 at 250 - not a prob. But then read 'standing' and I'm thinking it would be an epic fail for me.

I got to thinking about the standing position. You mentioned the 'hind leg.' I then started wondering if maybe in standing you ought to put a bit more weight on the hind leg to help stabilize things? I've always distributed my weight 50/50 in standing. Would putting more weight to the hind leg help? Kinda like how in prone most of your weight is directed to the support elbow. Not a tripod deal where your weight is 50/50 on the elbows?

An Armed Society is a polite society. Heinlein.

Agrivere

It's exactly the opposite actually, at least for most shooters.  You'll improve your position by weighting a bit more - maybe 60% - of your weight on the front leg. If you ever get a chance to read Ways Of The Rifłe (it's expensive but excellent) you'll see that most champion level shooters have their forward hip out towards the target (the idea is a perfectly straight line from the balance point of the rifłe straight down to the ground) and a slight weight bias toward the front.

Of course having said that there are many ways to shoot standing that can work, so the opposite might work for some shooters.

Matt Emmons standing position is about as close to "textbook" perfect as I've ever seen.
"The great body of our citizens shoot less as times goes on. We should encourage rifle practice among schoolboys, and indeed among all classes, as well as in the military services by every means in our power. Thus, and not otherwise, may we be able to assist in preserving peace in the world... The first step � in the direction of preparation to avert war if possible, and to be fit for war if it should come � is to teach men to shoot." -Theodore Roosevelt

Laredo


What's interesting is that in the book he spends more time on standing than seated or prone.  I think there were 4 alternatives...  I can't wait to get to the range to try them.  They were all based on the build of the shooter and also the wind conditions.  There are pictures.

Agrivere - check out the book.  Go to the chapter on the positions.  Check out the standing ones.  He has one that is similar to what you described. 


April 21-22, 2012 - 1st
Oct      6-7, 2012 - 2nd
April 20-21, 2013 - 3rd
Sept     7-8, 2013 - 4th - Rifleman!!

"The cost of a thing is the amount of life required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run. When one has obtained those essentials necessary for well-being â€" food, shelter, warmth, and clothing, there is an alternative to struggling through steel jungles for the luxuries. That's to adventure on life itself, one's vacation from humble toil having commenced." -Townsend Whelen

Agrivere

I haven't yet, but I absolutely will!
"The great body of our citizens shoot less as times goes on. We should encourage rifle practice among schoolboys, and indeed among all classes, as well as in the military services by every means in our power. Thus, and not otherwise, may we be able to assist in preserving peace in the world... The first step � in the direction of preparation to avert war if possible, and to be fit for war if it should come � is to teach men to shoot." -Theodore Roosevelt

TaosGlock

Not only was Whelen great marksman but he captured the spirit of  Rifleman and how it relates to a strong country.

A Message to Hunters and Rifleman of the United States-Col. Townsend Whelen.

"I am trying to make our country a nation of Rifleman who will forever command peace, who will preserve the sanctity of our homes, and who will conserve our game for the sportsmanship use of themselves, their sons, and their grandsons."-Col. Townsend Whelen, May 1932.

I recently ran across a 1985 reprint of an Outdoor Life Magazine 1932 article he wrote. His words are still relevant today. The below article was written in the 30's during a horrible economic depression and with rumors of another world war looming. The parallels to America today are obvious. His 1932 message is still loud and clear. Note he addresses many shooting problems and questions we have discussed here on the forum in regards to rifles and marksmanship. Note the parallels of his deeper message to the Appleseed Project's mission in general. Also, while we somewhat disdain hunters, back then, hunters were not the ilk of much of today's current crop of dumbed down hobby shooters and internet warriors.

Whelen served many years in the army (also as an instructor) and at one time was Springfield Armory's director of research.
In the article below, Whelen announces the arrival of a new era in rifles, sights and ammo which he helped bring to fruition. The idea was that this new era would usher in a higher standard of marksmanship.  Whelen specifically advises that "hunter riflemen" qualify on the AQT.
Whelen obviously had much more insight into freedom and liberty and how "a nation of rifleman" relates to a prosperous country. No doubt, Whelen would be huge proponent of Appleseed.  Whelen was known by some shooters  as "Mister Rifleman".

I put in italics, items (rifle, marksmanship, etc.) some of the concerns in which Whelen addresses and what we instructors often still face in present Appleseed time. Predominately, because we are a nation of casual plinkers,  current manufacturers have given us rifles (not in all cases though) that reflect that standard and which must be modified in many cases to allow even a modicum of marksmanship skills to be taught efficiently.

Whelen had a sense of "urgency" back then. Look at the times he lived in. The difference was he was committed.

Perhaps to instill a sense of "urgency" in filling those lines in your state, ask yourself, are we that nation of riflemen he wanted to create?


Here is Whelen's article, streamlined only a bit for efficiency. The original is online.


Gentlemen, in the past, I have tried to help you worry along with the obsolete, mediocre, quite inefficient factory rifles which our large manufacturers chose to provide for us as hunter riflemen.  You came to me with your problems and I did my best to tell you how you could improve those poor arms by fitting good sights, smoothing up the trigger, modifying the stock, fitting sling swivels and making slings for them. There was nothing else we could do because there was nothing else on the market available to us except the custom made rifles, which were far too expensive for most of us.
But thank goodness, times have now changed or are about to change. There have been available to members of the National Rifle Association for a number of years the unexcelled Springfield military rifle, and the most excellent sporting type modification of it.  In the past two years, there have also been produced two excellent, high-grade super-accurate bolt action rifles for high-intensity cartridges the Winchester Model 54 and the Remington 30-S and for small bore rifle shooting we have two excellent rifles in .22 caliber. The Winchester Model 52 and the Springfield M1922 M1. There is one really good .22 caliber boy's rifle on the market, the Winchester Model 57.

Within a few months I will be able to announce to you other new rifles. These rifles will have modern sights, sling swivels, fine shooting rifle slings and good clean trigger pulls-and the price will be within reach of everyone. We will even have another fine little boy's rifle, which will embody all these improvements.

(TG side note: Notice how he addresses not just some of the features a rifleman needs, but the 22's. No doubt, as an Army instructor himself, Whelen knows the value 22's serve in marksmanship. The mention of the boy's rifle addresses the passing on the rifleman tradition, an asset to what he calls "a nation of rifleman".

With all these fine and suitable weapons available, I will never again have to write to you about these obsolete arms;  with which in their original condition no one can shoot well or learn to shoot well; and which are difficult and so expensive to remodel into halfway decent form. I want you to have rifles that you can really shoot well; and can always use with utmost effectiveness and confidence.  I shall never again recommend rifles fitted with obsolete sights that are slow to catch aim with, that have large errors of aim, that are impossible for older eyes and that shoot a foot differently at 100 yards when the sun is shining on their right side from what they do when the sun is shining on their left side.
I shall never again recommend to you a rifle with a miserable, old-fashioned stock with a comb so low that you can't rest your cheek firmly on it to hold your eye steady in the line of aim, that has cresent-shaped buttplate that can be shot only in a cramped standing position on level ground, or that has a boy sized shotgun buttplate placed on the rifle at such an angle that it slips off the shoulder everytime the rifle is operated in rapid fire. Such stocks also greatly increase the effect of recoil. They cannot be used effectively. When we train a man or boy to a high degree of excellence in marksmanship, he simply will not use such a stock. Why should I give the ordinary man an idea he can shoot well or learn to shoot well or get satisfaction from a rifle with such a stock? He cannot.
About a year ago, I explained to my readers the very great advantage that came from using a sling. It gives absolute steadfastness of aim and moreover it enables one to aim steadily even when he is trembling from exertion, cold or excitement. Given two shooters of equal skill, and equal rifles, let one use the rifle sling while the other shoots without it. The man without the sling will be seriously handicapped.  I am not going to recommend such a rifle as it will handicap you because it does not have a sling or sling swivels. I certainly would not use such a rifle.
I have been working hard for 30 years for this day. It was just 30 years ago that I wrote my first article for Outdoor Life recommending accurate rifles with adjustable aperture sights, shooting slings, large flat buttplates and the use of accurate cartridges.
The day has at last come when such rifles are available to everyone.

(TG note-now that he has the rifle part handled, he moves to make "a nation of riflemen".)

Using a modern rifle and training by modern methods, any man with fair physique and fair eyesight, with or without glasses, can quickly teach himself to: Place four out of five of his shots in a 10 inch bull's-eye at 200 yards or a 2 ½" bull's-eye at 50 yards from 12 to 20 seconds.

(TG note-quick, how many minutes does his standard vary from our rifleman standard?)

Surely place his bullet into a vital spot on a deer or similar game at 250 yards using iron sights, or 350 yards, using a scope, with a rifle shooting a high intensity cartridge of a very flat trajectory.

(TG note-as opposed to the slower velocity cartridges still in use)

Catch sure aim quickly on running or jumping game.
Qualify as Expert on the Army Qualifying Course.
He cannot do these things with obsolete, poorly sighted, poorly stocked rifles with poor trigger pulls and without a sling no matter how hard he tries.
Gentlemen we are again about to become a nation of riflemen, and having become that, we shall command peace for ourselves and for our posterity.  See to it you use the grandest of rifles properly as a gentleman and American should; that you never take life-human or animal-needlessly or thoughtlessly; that you never endanger the lives of others; that you kill painlessly and humanely with a single shot; that you learn to hold steadily, aim accurately and squeeze the trigger easily; that you become nail-driving marksman.
And then you teach your boys to do likewise.
Give them an even break. Don't handicap them with a cheap, unsuitable, obsolete rifle. Neither you nor they nor our country will get anywhere with such weapons. A good rifleman plus a good rifle will shoot, see straight, think straight and will run our country straight.
TW
More on Whelen here:
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/07/history-townsend-whelen.html

89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director/Current Lead Rifle Instructor: NRA WC Raton,NM
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"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

stoneknives

All of these books use to be available on the shelves of school library's all over the United States. As an Air Force Brat, I read them in schools all over the nation and used them for many book reports. The purge of the library has kept this resource of wisdom from young people.

If a kid were to turn in a book report from a Jeff Cooper or a Townsend Wheelen they would be booted out of class and sent in for an psych evaluation. As a person who works for 30 years in the 8th largest school district in the U.S. I can state that as a fact.
"When men's rules are Honorable and Just I will follow them. When I find the laws tolerable, I will tolerate them. When I find the rules obnoxious, I will ignore them. When I find evil imposed or codified, I will War against it. My Lord has made it known and understood to me that to accept the gift of freedom I will alone bear the full responsibility everything I do, or chose not to do." I .......    "This is Appleseed. We are here to restore the Republic. Tyrants, major or petty, need not apply."  I .......

"I stand with the mission, Sir" PHenry

Fred


   We can change that.

    Any teachers here amongst us Appleseeders? If so, PM me with phone number and best time to call.

   How about educators of any stripe?

   How about school janitors?

   Anyone?

   
"Ready to eat dirt and sweat bore solvent?" - Ask me how to become an RWVA volunteer!

      "...but he that stands it now, deserves the thanks of man and woman alike..."   Paine

     "If you can read this without a silly British accent, thank a Revolutionary War veteran" - Anon.

     "We have it in our power to begin the world over again" - Thomas Paine

     What about it, do-nothings? You heard the man, jump on in...