Author Topic: Suggested reading from Fred  (Read 1606 times)

Offline Laredo

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Suggested reading from Fred
« on: September 02, 2015, 05:12:50 PM »
This past weekend, Fred suggested the following book.

Its a great read for many reasons.  I would love to hear comments on the book.  I am not quite done with it.  I will post up some comments when I am done.  But, I can say that its fascinating historically,  and a must read for any rifleman!

https://archive.org/details/suggestionstomi00whelgoog

Further, I highly recommend doing a bit of research on the author.  Very interesting man. 
April 21-22, 2012 - 1st
Oct      6-7, 2012 - 2nd
April 20-21, 2013 - 3rd
Sept     7-8, 2013 - 4th - Rifleman!!

"The cost of a thing is the amount of life required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run. When one has obtained those essentials necessary for well-being — food, shelter, warmth, and clothing, there is an alternative to struggling through steel jungles for the luxuries. That’s to adventure on life itself, one’s vacation from humble toil having commenced.” -Townsend Whelen

Offline Laredo

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Re: Suggested reading from Fred
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2015, 12:24:59 PM »
From the book:

"The gun-sling should be used whenever it is possible to do so.  It is even more of a factor in fine marksmanship than the wind-guage.  By its use the rifle may be held absolutely steady; in rapid fire it facilitates the quick return of the rifle to the point of aim, and it takes up almost half of the recoil."
Townsend Whelen
1909

"One cannot become an expert without its aide."
Townsend Whelen
1909



April 21-22, 2012 - 1st
Oct      6-7, 2012 - 2nd
April 20-21, 2013 - 3rd
Sept     7-8, 2013 - 4th - Rifleman!!

"The cost of a thing is the amount of life required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run. When one has obtained those essentials necessary for well-being — food, shelter, warmth, and clothing, there is an alternative to struggling through steel jungles for the luxuries. That’s to adventure on life itself, one’s vacation from humble toil having commenced.” -Townsend Whelen

Offline Fred

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Re: Suggested reading from Fred
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2015, 05:24:02 PM »

   BTW, at the old club some of us used (in the cheap centerfire days) to post a target at 25 with three silhouettes scaled for 75 meters (IIRC), 175 meters, and 250 meters (275 yards), load up with a 20-rd mag, stand up, start the clock, and have 60 seconds to put the entire mag on the target.

   The winner would have six hits (min) each at the first two targets, with the balance (and determining winning score) the number of hits on the 250M target.

    Let me tell you: 1. You burn a LOT of centerfire - 5 attempts = 5 MINUTES of shooting, and 100 rds downrange; and

       2. You found out you can become a heck of a speed (and accurate) standing shooter (accurate, since it was the number of hits at 250 that counted).

     So, I can sure second the colonel's advice on sling use. O0

     And, after we'd done this a few times, to win you'd have to get 8-10 hits on the 250m target! (Remember, that's standing! Or, "hind leg" as us 'veterans' used to say. :) )
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Offline scuzzy

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Re: Suggested reading from Fred
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2015, 07:44:34 PM »

     And, after we'd done this a few times, to win you'd have to get 8-10 hits on the 250m target! (Remember, that's standing! Or, "hind leg" as us 'veterans' used to say. :) )

LOL - I was thinking 8-10 at 250 - not a prob. But then read 'standing' and I'm thinking it would be an epic fail for me.

I got to thinking about the standing position. You mentioned the 'hind leg.' I then started wondering if maybe in standing you ought to put a bit more weight on the hind leg to help stabilize things? I've always distributed my weight 50/50 in standing. Would putting more weight to the hind leg help? Kinda like how in prone most of your weight is directed to the support elbow. Not a tripod deal where your weight is 50/50 on the elbows?

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Offline Agrivere

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Re: Suggested reading from Fred
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2015, 11:34:41 PM »
It's exactly the opposite actually, at least for most shooters.  You'll improve your position by weighting a bit more - maybe 60% - of your weight on the front leg. If you ever get a chance to read Ways Of The Rifłe (it's expensive but excellent) you'll see that most champion level shooters have their forward hip out towards the target (the idea is a perfectly straight line from the balance point of the rifłe straight down to the ground) and a slight weight bias toward the front.

Of course having said that there are many ways to shoot standing that can work, so the opposite might work for some shooters.

Matt Emmons standing position is about as close to "textbook" perfect as I've ever seen.
"The great body of our citizens shoot less as times goes on. We should encourage rifle practice among schoolboys, and indeed among all classes, as well as in the military services by every means in our power. Thus, and not otherwise, may we be able to assist in preserving peace in the world... The first step � in the direction of preparation to avert war if possible, and to be fit for war if it should come � is to teach men to shoot." -Theodore Roosevelt

Offline Laredo

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Re: Suggested reading from Fred
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2015, 11:51:15 PM »

What's interesting is that in the book he spends more time on standing than seated or prone.  I think there were 4 alternatives...  I can't wait to get to the range to try them.  They were all based on the build of the shooter and also the wind conditions.  There are pictures.

 Agrivere - check out the book.  Go to the chapter on the positions.  Check out the standing ones.  He has one that is similar to what you described. 


April 21-22, 2012 - 1st
Oct      6-7, 2012 - 2nd
April 20-21, 2013 - 3rd
Sept     7-8, 2013 - 4th - Rifleman!!

"The cost of a thing is the amount of life required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run. When one has obtained those essentials necessary for well-being — food, shelter, warmth, and clothing, there is an alternative to struggling through steel jungles for the luxuries. That’s to adventure on life itself, one’s vacation from humble toil having commenced.” -Townsend Whelen

Offline Agrivere

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Re: Suggested reading from Fred
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2015, 07:59:50 AM »
I haven't yet, but I absolutely will!
"The great body of our citizens shoot less as times goes on. We should encourage rifle practice among schoolboys, and indeed among all classes, as well as in the military services by every means in our power. Thus, and not otherwise, may we be able to assist in preserving peace in the world... The first step � in the direction of preparation to avert war if possible, and to be fit for war if it should come � is to teach men to shoot." -Theodore Roosevelt

Offline TaosGlock

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Re: Suggested reading from Fred
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2015, 10:51:07 AM »
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Offline stoneknives

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Re: Suggested reading from Fred
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2015, 05:03:33 PM »
All of these books use to be available on the shelves of school library's all over the United States. As an Air Force Brat, I read them in schools all over the nation and used them for many book reports. The purge of the library has kept this resource of wisdom from young people.

If a kid were to turn in a book report from a Jeff Cooper or a Townsend Wheelen they would be booted out of class and sent in for an psych evaluation. As a person who works for 30 years in the 8th largest school district in the U.S. I can state that as a fact.
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Offline Fred

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Re: Suggested reading from Fred
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2015, 06:17:23 PM »

   We can change that.

    Any teachers here amongst us Appleseeders? If so, PM me with phone number and best time to call.

   How about educators of any stripe?

   How about school janitors?

   Anyone?

   
"Ready to eat dirt and sweat bore solvent?" - Ask me how to become an RWVA volunteer!

      "...but he that stands it now, deserves the thanks of man and woman alike..."   Paine

     "If you can read this without a silly British accent, thank a Revolutionary War veteran" - Anon.

     "We have it in our power to begin the world over again" - Thomas Paine

     What about it, do-nothings? You heard the man, jump on in...