Author Topic: Front Sight moves under heat?  (Read 6433 times)

Offline Dziadek

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Front Sight moves under heat?
« on: April 22, 2015, 11:02:14 PM »
On Sunday of weekend last I noticed my front sight was wiggly to the touch. An instructor (Grindstone?) generously allowed me to use his personal rifle as there wasn't an allen wrench on site that fit my set screw.

Today I find the wrench that came with my self-installed sight kit and went to tighten things up and lo and behold -- its snug as can be. The front sight isn't wiggling anymore. I wasn't hallucinating. I believe at least one of the instructors verified my wiggle, as it were. Now I am trying to figure out why it would wiggle there, and not wiggle here.

I am wondering if the Loc-Tite I used when it was installed lost some integrity perhaps for all the shooting.

Anyone seen this before? What stops this from happening every time?
The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.

Offline 2 clicks low

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Re: Front Sight moves under heat?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2015, 11:16:04 PM »
Would help to know the rifle and sights.

This generally doesn't happen. If you use a drop of Lock-Tite (blue) it should work just fine. If there is still a problem I would look to the sight itself. Was it hard to put in? Did you need a hammer and drift? If not it just might not fit correctly. If it happens again you can stake it in place.

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Offline Dziadek

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Re: Front Sight moves under heat?
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2015, 01:22:36 AM »
Its a Daisy Red Ryder range model carbine with a compass in the stock and a thing that tells time.

Okay, well its actually a Ruger 10/22 with the Tech Sights TSR100.

I don't recall having trouble with it going on. As I recall it went in just like the package said it would. I used the drop of blue. I did buy it and put it together over a year ago. It sat until last weekend as no Appleseed was held that actually meshed with an off weekend for me until April 19 weekend. All was well. All seems well now.

Mayhap I should just take it off and re-mount.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 01:28:04 AM by Dziadek »
The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.

Offline Guntuckian

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Re: Front Sight moves under heat?
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2015, 03:10:44 AM »
 I had to replace the spring under the front post with a standard AR-15 front sight spring.  The spring that came with the TSR100 was a little short and the front sight would move under recoil. In some positions, it was wiggly.  In other positions, it was tight.  With a longer spring, the problem went away.  It now remains steady.

--gb
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Offline Grindstone

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Re: Front Sight moves under heat?
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2015, 09:25:10 AM »
Yes, I saw that the front sight assembly was loose in the dovetail. If I recall correctly from installing mine, there is a screw at an angle from the front that spreads the sight to tighten it into the slot. The other two screws on the sides are grub screws to help push the sight to one side or another.

On the line I forgot about the center screw and was trying to figure out how to tighten the grub screws, which appeared to be very small torx headed. I think it is plausible that a temperature difference would cause the sight to wobble slightly if the sight is not very tight into the dovetail.

On mine I had to adjust the fit by squeezing it closed with pliers, then prying it open again so that it was loose enough to slide into the slot, but snug enough to hold itself before tightening the screw. Be careful not to move too far or you will crack the metal. The problem with the design is that the screw does not have enough leverage to clamp the sight in place when the gap is too wide, it is more just to lock it when the dovetail fits well.

On Sunday evening while cleaning guns, I also noticed on the rifle I loaned you that the rear sight was beginning to come loose. Sorry about that, you are welcome to use that as an explanation for a drop off in accuracy for the last few targets of the day.

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Re: Front Sight moves under heat?
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2015, 09:28:12 AM »
I had a similar issues with tech sights on my wife's 10/22  , the set screw that holds the front sight into the dovetail was in at a funny angle and not tight enough. (my fault entirely) I called tech sights , admitted that I had screwed up the installation and striped the threads in the sight. The customer service rep apologized to me for me messing it up and sent me a new front sight at no charge. Great people over there.  O0
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Offline SteelThunder

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Re: Front Sight moves under heat?
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2015, 09:57:48 AM »
You can also peen the bottom of the dovetail to give the screw something to "bite" into to lessen movement.
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Offline TrebleShooter

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Re: Front Sight moves under heat?
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2015, 12:33:15 PM »
I have had shoots where rifles are affected by heat.
After lunch one Sunday, we shot a star target, and almost every single shooter was grouping up to an inch to the left. 
Usually happens after lunch, when the rifles have been laying on their sides for an hour.  The ground temps here in Vegas in our May/June shoots can exceed 120 degrees.  Not sure if it was a sights issue or a mechanical issue, but it tends to happen here in the warmer months.
As a rule of thumb, if the air temp is over 95, I do a quick sighter square after lunch to address any heat issues.

Offline Dziadek

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Re: Front Sight moves under heat?
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2015, 12:34:02 PM »
If I recall correctly from installing mine, there is a screw at an angle from the front that spreads the sight to tighten it into the slot.
Yes, true. I will fiddle a bit to see if I can get it in place.

I actually did have a drop off in accuracy that day. I will use your suggested excuse for why it didn't get better with a different rifle.  ;D

At the time, I chalked it up to reaching saturation. There was a lot of information and though I was trying to get it all together in those last shoots, nothing seemed to behave the way I wanted to. Then, the more that happened, the more frustrated I got and the more I returned to my roots. That is, I found myself doing the old Boyscout half-breath-hold rather than using my respiratory pause. I was also rushing my shots and trying to muscle the rifle over where I wanted it to be.

I could feel it going wrong, but lacked the patience with myself to make it right. Perhaps the malfunctioning equipment played a role in diminishing gains that started me down the path of reversion, but I know my head wasn't right and it took the drive home to make it so.

I have been laying on my floor looking for the "secret sauce" and rehearsing the steps.
The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.

Offline Dziadek

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Re: Front Sight moves under heat?
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2015, 12:35:21 PM »
Great people over there.  O0
I will keep your experience with customer service in my back pocket as I got about trying to adjust.
The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.

Offline Dziadek

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Re: Front Sight moves under heat?
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2015, 12:36:04 PM »
You can also peen...

I will keep that in mind.
The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.

Offline Dziadek

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Re: Front Sight moves under heat?
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2015, 12:37:20 PM »
I had to replace the spring... With a longer spring, the problem went away.  It now remains steady.

--gb

Thanks, I will keep that in mind.
The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.

Offline BeSwift

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Re: Front Sight moves under heat?
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2015, 03:46:41 PM »
Tape ice cubes to either side of the front sight. You'll need to repeat every 20-30 min or so.  ;D

This is a first for me hearing about this problem. Never ceases to amaze the problems that come up...     
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Offline Bluesteel

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Re: Front Sight moves under heat?
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2015, 08:23:25 PM »
Great people over there.  O0
I will keep your experience with customer service in my back pocket as I got about trying to adjust.

If you are really diligent in practicing the positions/steady hold factors, NPOA and the 6 steps to firing the shot in dry fire exercises, you can experience a big jump in performance at the next shoot you attend.  It's very difficult to absorb and apply all of that in one weekend if you've not been exposed to it before.  Just 10-20 minutes/day is more effective than 1-2 hours once/week. 

I look forward to seeing you at a future shoot!

Offline Dziadek

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Re: Front Sight moves under heat?
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2016, 01:19:13 AM »
So I am reviving a necro-thread... its all about my front sight.

At the aforementioned Appleseed (Fenton April 2015) my front sight loosened after a day of shooting. Grindhouse was good enough to let me use a loaner rifle for day 2. :bow:

I tried to get the sight off after I got back home and ended up stripping the side screws. No wanting to drill them out, I backed the front screw all the way out, tightened it back up and it seemed tight enough. I went to my next Appleseed (Oscoda July 2016) and by my second AQT it was loose again. This time Dragonmedic let me use a loaner. :bow:

I used Dragonmedics loaner until his theory that rifles are cleaned too often and need a little seasoning  ;) meant that the firing pin was fouled and wouldn't fire.

Enter Nailer (Naylor?) who let me use his 10/22 with its delicious Volquartsen trigger.  :bow: Yes, two cheerful loaners in one weekend. Also proof that a better rifle doesn't mean anything when you aren't able to consistently applying 6 steps and holding NPOA.

So I get home and ordered replacement screws from Tech Sights. For about seven bucks after shipping, I was ready to do surgery on the front sight. Since both Grindstone and Dragonmedic explained that the function of the front screw is to spread the sight apart so that it fits more snugly in the slot. I sat and looked for a bit at what I was dealing with.

Before I started drilling and tapping, I decided to see if I could shim that narrow crack with the front screw out. If I could put successively wider implements in the space, I figured I would be spreading it without having to mess things up worse. What I settled on was a nail that I tapered down to a fine flat surface and pressed it in as far as a could. When I ran the new set screw into the hole, the sight tightened right up.

Voila!

I think I am ready for August in Fenton. Rifleman, here I come.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 06:02:56 AM by Dziadek »
The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.

Offline crobjones2

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Re: Front Sight moves under heat?
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2016, 02:07:31 AM »
I'll throw another issue with tech sights on my 10/22
every time I adjusted my front post I would put rounds on the opposite side of the square
I noticed that the front post was wobbling
The instructor told me to take it all the way down and bring it back up 11 clicks then lower the aperature down until it was as low as it could go without being blocked by the base.
This tightened the front post up and made future adjustments reliable

Offline Dziadek

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Re: Front Sight moves under heat?
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2016, 03:02:13 AM »
Do you mean to sat that just the post was wiggly or the whole front sight?
The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.