ASRPA - Very interesting match & training exercise they hold

[AZRedhawk44]

Arizona State Rifle and Pistol Association holds what appears to be a monthly (roughly) event, called the "ADM" which stands for the Arizona Defense Match.

It's a quasi service rifle course of fire similar to the AQT or an NRA High Power match.

This is the target:



50 shots.
-two 10rd strings prone at 300 yards
-two 10rd strings prone at 200 yards
-one 10rd string prone at 100 yards

Rules stipulate that everything you need to shoot your 50 shots must be contained within a simple backpack, which can be used as a rest, as can a sling.  Intention is "your rifle, your ammo, a go-bag, grab it and be effective from shot #1, no spotting scopes or other silly games."  No sighters, start shooting at 300, no special shooting jackets/clothes that are different than what you would wear when typically shooting (i.e. no Creedmoor hardbacks, etc).

Appleseed Riflemen should be able to clean this up!

Match rules:  http://www.asrpa.com/Defense_Match/ADM_10-9-2013.pdf

About the match:  http://www.asrpa.com/Defense_Match/defense_match.html

The next one is at "Cowtown," a range here in AZ I've never heard of before now.  It's west of Ben Avery near the glider airport just south of Lake Pleasant.  April 27th.  I'm gonna attend and try it out.

[ItsanSKS]

Very interested in setting something like this up here in Alaska.  We have a 300yd range that would work great for this.  As you stated, this is an ideal match for the Appleseed Rifleman to test and or hone his or her skills. 

Targets available from National Target for $75/25

[azmule]

I can use my favorite field rifle and not invest in some special high-dollar rig - check
Not only will I not be disparaged if I fail to roll in with a literal tool-chest full of high-dollar specialized gear, it just ain't allowed - check
I can wear what I rode to the range in. (I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Thoreau) - check

I'm in!     Finally a shooting competition I can actually enjoy!

I'm going to have to juggle a few things to clear that weekend though - worth it.

[Two Wolves]

I'd like to see this in Texas.   

[jmdavis]

OK, so I am shooting prone at 100, 200 and 300 yards and can use a ruck as a rest. No sitting or kneeling, no standing. But the really interesting rule for the rifleman is:

"*All rifles must be shot from the backpack/LBE rest however the rifle sling may also be used to assist in firing."

[AZRedhawk44]

"*All rifles must be shot from the backpack/LBE rest however the rifle sling may also be used to assist in firing."

I interpret that as a safety or firing line control protocol, personally.  Rifle must be touching a backpack, which means it is incapable (in theory) of being waived around randomly on the firing line.  The sling note is there for folks who have been trained to shoot with a sling. 

My April 27th date may be inaccurate, I'm trying to get more info from Landis Aden, ASRPA's VP.  Their website is not terribly clear on what type of event is happening when.  I heard Landis on "Declare Your Independence" (Ernie Hancock's show) and he mentioned the ADM matches there.

I'll update as I get more info.

[azmule]

I cut out some 5"x8" "tombstones" from black paper to perforate at 100 and 200 yards at the county range yesterday - that range doesn't go out to 300, but that is still one tiny little mark at 200 - at 300 it would be 1 3/4 x 2 3/4 MOA.  As the target gets harder to see, shooters are going to naturally tend to center on the colored squares, but the targets are not in the center - clever.

[arpjoe]

I am a new ASRPA member and worked the ASRPA booth on Sat for the Outdoor Expo at Ben Avery Range with Landis Aden and Noble Hathaway.  Landis and Noble posted one of the ADM targets behind the booth table.  Definitely an interesting course of fire.

I have also signed up to help April 27 for the ASRPA Day at Cowtown Studios and Range.  I'll see some of you there if you attend.

Joe

[AzRon]

AzRedhawk did you go, if so how was it?

[azmule]

I went.  Turns out that they weren't doing an ADM at this particular event - ASRPA Day at Cowtown Range - I wound up going anyway mostly to shake some hands, talk up Appleseed, and check out the range for future 'seeds.  Lots of small bays suitable for a 25M Appleseed, and although the full distance rifle range is steel only and not paper-target-friendly, it is seriously the best steel rifle range I've ever seen - ever!  The firing line is on the crest of a ridge on the low side of a deep ravine, with steel targets of random color, shape, elevation, and unknown but guessable size distributed on the far side and down the length of the ravine from 100yds to 1200yds, ranging from in-plain-sight to almost completely obscured by heavy natural concealment.  And being in a ravine, lighting conditions change considerably throughout the day.  We will definitely be doing some sort of full distance event here.

Surprisingly, although they were promoting the match (at least the concept of it), the ASRPA folks I talked to had no idea when or where any were being offered, other than someone mentioning that some have been held at the Sierra Vista range.  Looks like the idea is for groups to buy the targets and run their own match - I'm thinking of throwing one of these in on the last day of our upcoming advanced KD clinic in Kingman.

[azmule]

It just so happens that the Marana Shooting Club is perfect for this course of fire, featuring a fixed target line with movable firing lines out to 400yds.  The bad news is that it appears that ASRPA may no longer be running the ADM as an official match - at least there's no mention of a continuation for 2016 on their website.  I've got a call in to find out if they are planning to organize and post results this year.

Either way, I would like to get a stack of these targets and start holding these regularly in Marana - not as an Appleseed thing, but as an open participation "know your rifle" thing where Appleseed can be offered as a solution for those dissatisfied with their performance.  And maybe even an opportunity to slip in a few history tidbits where they fit.

And if it's no longer an ASRPA thing, we're free to modify the basic idea into our own "Rifleman improved" version - slings not rests, use whatever field-expedient load carry method you prefer whether backpack, belt, vest, or satchel (since the point of this is to try, sort-out, and refine how you carry stuff in the field), first 300yd stage includes a transition to prone, second 300yd stage continues from prone, etc.  This version would be a lot more challenging, but it might also limit participation, what do you think?  Of course, if ASRPA is going to continue to take point, their match - we'll follow their rules.

[azmule]

Rio Sadado member Gary tells me that Rio Salado will be holding one of these on Sunday June 12, 2016.  It's on their calendar for 7:30 am (7:00 set up), but with little other info.  For any questions, it looks like the guy to ask is Rio Salado HP director Mike Toliver at mkltoli1000@gmail.com

If anybody shoots in this one, post a report here.   

[Luminous Rabbit]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the course of fire, but three thoughts come to mind:

1) It's still an equipment-fest, just not the same equipment as some other disciplines.  Rucksack prone is an easy sub-MOA position to shoot from, and 60 seconds for 10 shots with 1 load and no transitions is pretty slow.  So pressure on the shooter should be low.  All that's required is to show up with a sub-MOA AR that will hold POI through 10 shots, match ammo, plus an accurate drop chart and a big scope.  Brakes (although "discouraged") and suppressors would be hugely advantageous.

2) related to 1) above, it should be very possible to clean this course of fire.  Seems like it would be interesting to shoot about 3 times.

3) Appleseeders with 4MOA surplus rifles would not have much success, since the tombstone will be 1.6MOA and 2.5MOA at 300y and 200y.

[azmule]

No disagreement here - which is why I'd like very much to tweak this COF a little to include transitions for at least the first string at each distance, and if we don't eliminate the use of backpack rests altogether, the process of taking it off, throwing it down, and getting set up on it should be part of the transition within the one minute time limit, not carefully set up in advance.  That should better approximate the steadier shot/faster shot decisions one might have to make in the field.  In that same vein, at 100, I'd like to give shooters the option of shooting from standing, or transitioning to sit/kneel within the time limit.

I've been in communication with the ASRPA guys about this, and they have no problem with the idea, and are interested in the results when we try it out.

[Luminous Rabbit]

I actually like keeping rucksack prone.  This may diverge from appleseed doctrine a bit, but IMO rucksack is a way better position than slung prone.  It's both faster to get into (in the real world where you don't get a prep period to jack with your sling) and about 1-2MOA more accurate for the typical shooter.  There's certainly room for learning both, but if I've got a shot to take at an animal (or God forbid people) I know which I'd prefer.

What might be cool at 100 is some sort of barricade position.

[azmule]

Exactly why either should be included in the timed transition - whether its quicker to shrug out of a pack or sling up is going to vary considerably by shooter, sling type, and pack, and the whole point is to give shooters the chance to shake-out what works for them in the field and what doesn't.

I like the barricade idea - let 'em shoot any position of their choice, but the firing line at 100 is just a little too high for a solid prone.  Decisions, decisions...