Folding sights?

[modeler]

Hi all,

I'm scheduled to go to the Appleseed event in Eagle Creek, Oregon on November 9th and 10th. I have an AR-15 with a CMMG dedicated .22 upper that I'd like to use. It currently has a scope, but I'd like to get some iron sights for it to use at Appleseed. It has a railed "gas block" and a railed upper receiver, I was thinking of getting some flip-up sights so that I could leave them on and fold them down when I wanted to mount and use the scope after (or during) Appleseed.

What is a good brand of flip-up sights? I have a set of YHM flip-ups on my AR and they work well, but are quite expensive. Do the MagPul BUIS work well? Are they of good quality and will they hold zero repeatably? Any other brands anyone has experience with?

[DEH]

Magpuls buis are plastic.  They may hold zero enough to shoot rifleman but are generally not considered adequete for our purposes.   I wouldnt change anything up now.  Wait until after your first as to see what you need to see.

[modeler]

Thanks. I've already been to one Appleseed and I'm fairly comfortable knowing what I need. I'd like to find some folding iron sights for the gun. What are some good metal folding sights?

[DrRichP]

Yankee Hill Machine are good, but a little pricey as you have written. Rock River Arms (RRA) also makes a good set. I wouldn't waste my time with Magpul BUIS.

[Surveyor1653]

YHM, Troy, Midwest Industries, and others all make good BUIS sets that will give a good life of service.  Price-wise, they're all about the same.  You'll have to shop around for a deal.

You mentioned that you have a railed gas block on your .22 upper.  If it's not a receiver-height gas block (rail is the same height-above-barrel as the top of the rail on the receiver) you'll need a front sight that is intended for such a gas block.  They will typically be noted as being a "gas block front sight" or something along those lines.  MBUS sets are not intended for mounting on the low-rail gas blocks.  Good luck.

[peterlandsiedel]

Troy.

They are pricy, but you get what you pay for. I've shot a few rifles with MBUIS, and I was... underwhelmed.

[FiremanBob]

You might find a used set in the classifieds on AR15.com

[Ratchett]

I like the Troy tubby battle sights but they are pricey.

[Charles McKinley]

Pricey:
If you want good oats you have to pay a fair price.  If you want oats that have already been through the horse they are generally cheaper.

Check Arfcom for reviews and see if you can find a set used or a coupon code that you can use to save a few bucks.  Remember you can keep these and put on future rifles as well.  Quality- Buy once cry  once.

.004" (four thousandths of an inch) at the trigger equals one MOA at the target.  Folding sites if they are going to be worthwhile over a long period of time (possible the first time) will have to have quality Materials, quality Machining and quality Assembly.  Miss any of these steps and you have miss every time you squeaze the trigger.

[Caliper]

Quality- Buy once cry  once.

There is much truth in this.  Having a piece of gear that you will trust hands down in the mud is worthwhile.  Sure, you can only afford to buy one but that's all you'll need. 

Another option to consider for the rear is a cut-down detachable carry handle.  It's not as tacti-cool, but works well and fits easily in a pocket when you put a scope on. 

[Lakevillian]

What's wrong with the scope?   Why not use that, your shooting may be a little easier, but a good shooter can/should use both irons and optics for practice.  We all can improve our technique, if you normally shoot with a scope, continue on I say.
John

[modeler]

Pricey:
If you want good oats you have to pay a fair price.

Good point. I think I'll take the YHM sights off my SBR and put them on my AR for the weekend.

What's wrong with the scope?   Why not use that, your shooting may be a little easier, but a good shooter can/should use both irons and optics for practice.  We all can improve our technique, if you normally shoot with a scope, continue on I say.
John

There's nothing wrong with the scope at all, and I'm reasonably good with it. But I want to shoot rifleman with the gun using iron sights.

You know, walk before you crawl, learn to drive a stick shift before you drive an automatic, learn to use a single-line mechanical tow truck before using a twin-line hydraulic boom truck, etc....

[henschman]

If I'm just going to go with a simple non windage adjustable flip up rear, the Magpul MBUS is as good as any and better than most, and is quite affordable.  It was found to be the most durable and resistant to damage from dropping in a recent test.  However, if you want a folding rear that is just as capable as the carry handle sight, the cream of the crop is the KAC 2-600m folding rear sight, which is adjustable for both windage and elevation in MOA-increments clicks and has a marked BDC elevation dial.  But you have to pay for that kind of quality.  Both my 2A purpose ARs have that rear sight.

For a front sight, just make sure it is the correct height for your rail.  A typical railed gas block (with a rail somewhat lower than the upper receiver rail) takes a "gas block height" front sight.  One that has a tall rail that is the same height as the rail on the upper receiver will require a "rail height" front sight.  For the front, fixed or folding will both work fine. 

[FiremanBob]

I'm looking at this to replace the Tech-Sight rear on one of my 10/22s: http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/sights/rear-sights/ar-15-detachable-rear-sight-prod5556.aspx. It isn't flip-up, but is click adjustable and easy on/off with the rail.

[malabar]

I'm looking at this to replace the Tech-Sight rear on one of my 10/22s: http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/sights/rear-sights/ar-15-detachable-rear-sight-prod5556.aspx. It isn't flip-up, but is click adjustable and easy on/off with the rail.

I like it, but it looks like it might be a bit high....

tk

[Mudcat]

My son uses the Troys and has shot a KD rifleman score with them easy enough. I have shot a few Rifleman scores with the MBUS sights, they are plenty good for AQTs. Don't get hung up on the gear, it is about you and your skills.

[draken]

I'm looking at this to replace the Tech-Sight rear on one of my 10/22s: http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/sights/rear-sights/ar-15-detachable-rear-sight-prod5556.aspx. It isn't flip-up, but is click adjustable and easy on/off with the rail.

I like it, but it looks like it might be a bit high....

tk

Yes, they are too high for the 10/22 front tech sights.

What's the general consensus on the Matech rear sight?

[AFTERMATH]

Hi all,

I'm scheduled to go to the Appleseed event in Eagle Creek, Oregon on November 9th and 10th. I have an AR-15 with a CMMG dedicated .22 upper that I'd like to use. It currently has a scope, but I'd like to get some iron sights for it to use at Appleseed. It has a railed "gas block" and a railed upper receiver, I was thinking of getting some flip-up sights so that I could leave them on and fold them down when I wanted to mount and use the scope after (or during) Appleseed.

What is a good brand of flip-up sights? I have a set of YHM flip-ups on my AR and they work well, but are quite expensive. Do the MagPul BUIS work well? Are they of good quality and will they hold zero repeatably? Any other brands anyone has experience with?

If these sights are going on a dedicated training rifle, for training purposes only, you'll do fine with any of them - as long as it's actually made for a rifle(make sure it's not airsoft).  UTG and MagPul MBUS will do fine.  Just make sure you heed the advice about height - gas-block FS vs. handguard/rail FS.

Draken - I haven't tried my Matech yet.  But general reviews have been good.  I believe those and the aforementioned KAC 2-600 yrd are pretty much the only two elevation adjustable, folding rear sights that have been 'battle tested.'

[modeler]

Thanks for the thoughts. The event was a little over a week ago, and here's what happened:

I went to the shoot with my wife and three rifles, two 10/22's with iron sights and my AR .22 with a scope. I planned on shooting an iron-sighted 10/22 on Saturday and the scoped AR on Sunday with my wife shooting the third rifle all weekend.

After shooting the red coat target and the first sighting square it became apparent that I wasn't performing to my potential. I was having trouble focusing and hitting my target, with the results plainly in front of me. At that moment I finally relented to reality, declared my eyesight inadequate and changed to the AR .22 with the scope.

I promptly shot a 216 (and earned my Rifleman patch) on my first AQT, a 217 on my second AQT and a 223 on my fourth AQT. I would have shot a higher score on my third AQT (I cleared the fourth stage, save one errant shot) but a series of FTF's cost me over half of my shots on the second and third stages and doomed that target to the burn pile.

Looks like I'll be getting scopes for my 10/22's as well, although I plan on getting elevated scope rings that will allow use of iron sights when I'm feeling confident.

Thanks for all the advice!

[FiremanBob]

Yes, they are too high for the 10/22 front tech sights.

What's the general consensus on the Matech rear sight?

Not a problem. I have a spare .25" riser to install under the front sight.

[Caliper]

Looks like I'll be getting scopes for my 10/22's as well, although I plan on getting elevated scope rings that will allow use of iron sights when I'm feeling confident.

You'll probably have better luck using iron sights at the same plane as the scope using quick detach mounts.  The extremely tall scope mounts will need a very tall cheek riser to get any cheek weld on.

Or just set up one rifle with irons and another with a scope!   

[Charles McKinley]

Hi Modeler,

If you want to really learn iron sights invest in one of the $100 Daisy rifles from the CMP.  It is a 10 meter gun so just get 50% tagets and place them at 41 feet 12 1/2 m.  With out noise and recoil you can just focus on the front site.

You may suprise yourself.   I can clean the redcoat with it at 25m now if I do my part on a calm day.  Paper is the only time I shoot irons.  I go back to glass for everything else.  I'm a confirmed scope shooter.

Just a thought.

[RODGE]

I have BUIS, (folding), from La Rue Tactical.  Indestructable.  Yeow, they are pricey; but you do get what you pay for.

[draken]

Thanks!

Decided to go with the KAC micro 2-600m . I like the (semi) hooded aperture since it works better for my eyes...

[Nickle]

What's the general consensus on the Matech rear sight?

Got one on my AR, and considering the optic on it is an ACOG (real deal).

Had the same combo on my issued M4 in the Army Guard.

How good are they?

Well, they've held up to a year of infantry duty in Afghanistan with little to no trouble. Granted, most of the rifles had Aimpoint Com M4 red dots, the rest had TA-31RCO ACOGs, neither of which is cheap or unreliable. My ACOG isn't an RCO type, those were issued after they went to their deployment center, and as I didn't go, mine was a regular TA-31.

[grunt soldier]

I ran a matech over in iraq and afghanistan.  it was my first folding sight.  worked very well.  I shot kd with it out to 500 and had no problems at all.  I think the troy and KAC sights are better quality but they also cost 3 times as much as well.