Author Topic: Not Appleseed Shoot but fun shoot otherwise  (Read 3259 times)

1886lebel

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Not Appleseed Shoot but fun shoot otherwise
« on: July 23, 2008, 10:11:40 PM »

1886lebel

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Re: Not Appleseed Shoot but fun shoot otherwise
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2008, 10:12:11 PM »
We will have two targets set up at 500 meters ... full man steel target and shoulder/head steel target
Each shooter will shoot 10 rounds at these targets ... You will be allowed up to 5 spotters to get yourself on target for each weapon you plan on using after that no spotters will be allowed for that weapon. We most likely go 3 to 4 rounds per person ... so bring plenty of ammunition.
Points will be awarded as follows:
1 point for a hit on the full man target
3 points for a hit on the shoulder/head target
You get 5 points for using a weapon that was as issued/used in the original caliber in WWI ... see list above
Position: The shooting position will be either prone, kneeling, sitting or off-hand ... You decide
Weather: Except HOT SUNNY weather so bring plenty of sunscreen, water, etc. but as the weather this year is a little wierd we get also get some rain and it could be muddy ( just like the trenches) so be prepared for it as well.
I will be getting a bunch of sandbags to us to use as well possibly with 2 strands of barbed wire in front of the shooting position to simulate a WWI battlefield.
Rob will go over the range/club rules before any shooting takes place and I will give a little historical background relating to the theme of this shoot. I will be dressed a WWI French Poilu from the period.
Patrick

Offline Fred

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Re: Not Appleseed Shoot but fun shoot otherwise
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2008, 10:44:57 PM »

    And if you bring your M38 Jap 6.5, you can shoot as British or Russian - your choice.

    And the US made not only P-14s, but Mosin-Nagant 1891s, too. I recall seeing a mint one of the latter marked "Westinghouse". Heck, I think we even made some Lebels...

     Sounds like a heck of a fun shoot...
"Ready to eat dirt and sweat bore solvent?" - Ask me how to become an RWVA volunteer!

      "...but he that stands it now, deserves the thanks of man and woman alike..."   Paine

     "If you can read this without a silly British accent, thank a Revolutionary War veteran" - Anon.

     "We have it in our power to begin the world over again" - Thomas Paine

     What about it, do-nothings? You heard the man, jump on in...

1886lebel

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Re: Not Appleseed Shoot but fun shoot otherwise
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2008, 10:54:06 PM »
Remington made some Fusil d'Infanterie Mle.19017-1915 "Berthier" for the French but a very few of these made it to France as the inspectors in France found out that Remington did not cut the chambers correctly for the Balle D cartridge as they would not chamber properly so France rejected the rest of the contract pieces and this is why you see so many "New" Remington made Mle.1907-1915's here in the USA.
Patrick

Offline Fred

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Re: Not Appleseed Shoot but fun shoot otherwise
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2008, 09:03:26 AM »

     Remington making a rifle that would not chamber the round it was designed for? And the French said that?  Sounds like to me, more "Pooh on the Americans, they talk big, but can't do anything. They couldn't even win their Revolution, without us. Viv'la France!"

    The French are like John McCain. Lick the boots of their enemies, and dump on their friends. One scholarly history of WW2 I read recently pointed out that the French in WW2 were perfectly willing to fight the British and the Americans, but shyed away from ever confronting the Germans (this about Vichy France, but you can argue they didn't really fight the Germans in May, 1940 - either).

     A race with overweening pride, and little achievement to boast of... [Gosh, 1886lebel, hope you simply like the rifle, and are not French yourself - in which case, if the latter, I don't really mean any of the above... ;D]
"Ready to eat dirt and sweat bore solvent?" - Ask me how to become an RWVA volunteer!

      "...but he that stands it now, deserves the thanks of man and woman alike..."   Paine

     "If you can read this without a silly British accent, thank a Revolutionary War veteran" - Anon.

     "We have it in our power to begin the world over again" - Thomas Paine

     What about it, do-nothings? You heard the man, jump on in...

1886lebel

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Re: Not Appleseed Shoot but fun shoot otherwise
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2008, 11:56:12 AM »
It is well known among French weapons collectors that Remington did actually produce a weapon that was bad ... They used a wrong cartridge guage, when the first batch got to France and the inspectors there tried chambering the rounds they had to recut the chambers wider ... I do not think the French were lying as many of these myself and others have inspected have not chambered a French Balle D cartridge correctly. The one I have in my collection will not chamber a round correctly and leaves a gouge in the brass near the base and neck. Remington did eventually correct the problem but by the time they did the war ended and were never delivered.
I collect WWI French Fireams and reenact WWI as a French soldier, called a poilu, I am in the process of writing a book on on the Mle.1886 "Lebel" and latter one on the "Berthier" series of weapons. I have alot of friends in France that have helped me by going to the National Archives to help me research this stuff and one of them is a Major in the French Foriegn Legion. I am hoping to go back to France again soon to get back into the archives and see what else is there and visit some of the WWI battlefields again.
I personally try to stay away from the French bashing stuff as I do respect the French soldier for trying to do his job ... he is just as brave as any other soldier in any other country would be. I could go on and on about the subject but rather let it go.
My main interest is the weapons and the French experience during the "La Grande Guerre"
Patrick

Offline Francis Marion

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Re: Not Appleseed Shoot but fun shoot otherwise
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2008, 01:13:13 PM »
Where can you get three-shot Berthier clips?  Have a Mle 1892 carbine sans clips.  (And an Mle 1886 mounted above the fireplace!)

1886lebel

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Re: Not Appleseed Shoot but fun shoot otherwise
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2008, 01:32:41 PM »
The 3 round chargers are getting harder and harder to find anymore and when you do find them they are running $20 a piece.
I have a friend in France that gets some once in awhile and he sells them for $10 a piece and the 5 round chargers for $4... I will email him to see if he has anymore ... it might take a bit to get a response back to you as he travels around Europe for his job.
Patrick

« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 04:21:32 PM by 1886lebel »

1886lebel

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Re: Not Appleseed Shoot but fun shoot otherwise
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2008, 07:45:56 PM »
Two days away ... make you plans now to attend
Patrick

Offline twh731

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Re: Not Appleseed Shoot but fun shoot otherwise
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2008, 11:43:51 PM »
Patrick, sorry I missed it.  I had to be in Farmington on the weekend.  How did it go, by the way?  Tom
Appleseed is history in the re-making!

1886lebel

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Re: Not Appleseed Shoot but fun shoot otherwise
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2008, 09:54:55 PM »
Pictures ...
« Last Edit: August 28, 2008, 09:57:21 PM by 1886lebel »

1886lebel

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Re: Not Appleseed Shoot but fun shoot otherwise
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2008, 10:13:17 PM »
We held two legs shooting at three targets set from 385 - 500 yards as we had a new swinging target to use as well. Each shooter fired a total of 15 rounds, 5 rounds at each target all timed, which had to be under 10 minutes.
Ted shot a Swedish 1896 Rifle
Rapidrob shot a GEW 1888 Commission
Scotsman shot a 1891 Mosin Long rifle and Gew 1888 Commission
Steven - shot a Enfield No4 MkI
Tom S -shot a 1896/11 Swiss Long rifle
John shot a GEW 1898
Angel shot a 1891 Mosin Long Rifle and 1895 Winchester Musket
Tom shot a K-31
Gary shot a GEW 1898
And myself shot a Mle.1886 M.93 "Lebel"
We had a fun day blasting up these targets and at the end of the shoot I launched 2 reenacting grenade blank which went 120 meters downrange
Patrick

Offline Francis Marion

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Re: Not Appleseed Shoot but fun shoot otherwise
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2008, 01:38:58 AM »
The 3 round chargers are getting harder and harder to find anymore and when you do find them they are running $20 a piece.
I have a friend in France that gets some once in awhile and he sells them for $10 a piece and the 5 round chargers for $4... I will email him to see if he has anymore ... it might take a bit to get a response back to you as he travels around Europe for his job.
Patrick

...
Patrick,
Thanks for posting that outstanding 3-shot clip diagram.  As you wait word from your friend in France, I'm going to have a go at making some 3-shot clips.  Still want to procure some authentic clips, though.   You'd have to load three entire clips plus one single to run a 10-shot course of fire!  Ce n'est pas vite
How do you like those Mle. 93 sights for long distance?  Do you center the target over front sight centerline, or front sight notch? 
« Last Edit: August 30, 2008, 03:20:41 PM by Francis Marion »

Offline B9

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Re: Not Appleseed Shoot but fun shoot otherwise
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2008, 04:49:07 AM »
Thanks for the excellent pictures. Very dapper uniform I must say.
"It's very hard to engineer another countries liberation...people have to liberate themselves. Unfortunately in history, many people get killed..."
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1886lebel

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Re: Not Appleseed Shoot but fun shoot otherwise
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2008, 11:49:18 AM »
Sorry I have not replied sooner but have been busy with work ...
I sigh the target over front sight centerline with the Mle.1886 M.93
My friend in France is still out somewhere and he said as soon as he returns he will send me a bunch of chargers
Patrick