Author Topic: Need help choosing a musket  (Read 306 times)

Offline Kimber Custom

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Need help choosing a musket
« on: December 06, 2012, 07:48:17 PM »
So I have the possibility of a liberty seed or two in my not too distant future and I would sure like to have a musket to bring for show and tell.

I've found a display Brown Bess on e-bay for $225. I don't really mind that it's non firing but the ram rod isn't removable and that bugs me.

Then there's http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/489/1/AAH-842 Brown Bess 3rd model. It's technically too late for ARW but it is a Brown Bess and I could shoot it at future AS events.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/489/1/AAH-843 is more correct for the time period but it isn't a Brown Bess and the cost is starting to climb.

Any input would be appreciated.

Offline asminuteman

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2012, 08:24:38 PM »
I hate to interject in this kind of matter.
it's a much broader ask then you think, due to "varibles"!.......usually means more cash..*sorry*

for the most part anything under $500. isn't worth much ...unless....its not a "daily driver"...so to speak!

1k and up are the high end, beat the snot out of it and will always function, parts and accessories abound.

$500. to 1k for used,

or new "India" rifles (usually need extra love) at the 500 mark.......Kaylee did a group buy not so long ago for folk here in AS land.......some "questionable" safety issues linger, but should give you wonderful service.

so if its a wall hanger.....cheap is possible to locate
If your intenting to shoot..........DO RESEARCH-spend alittle more
IF your going to trust your life to it............."whats yer life worth?

(eyeball my avatar)...thats $1800.00...AND I do "trust" my life with it daily in the backwoods

I'm sorry I cannot do more, look for a thread that was for the group buy and read.....Kaylee/oldfudd and others were involved
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Offline asminuteman

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2012, 08:34:47 PM »
By the way ...what area are you in?

can you "high jack " one for the seed?
Better yet....have someone  (who owns one) come out and help with the seed?

I can tell the real deal (stage props to you) can make history JUMP to life


edited to attempt to keep speech pattern and spelling 20th century.........
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 08:37:19 PM by asminuteman »
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." ~ Thomas Paine

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."~ Thomas Paine

I know of no way to judge the future, then by the past. -Thomas Paine

Offline Kimber Custom

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2012, 08:41:47 PM »
Thanks for the input. I thought $225 was high for a prop but I quickly accepted the $450 for 'shootable' so maybe I'll be comfortable with the $1000 before the dates are set  :shootself:

I'm in Vancouver, WA. Rizzin is the only one I know of in the area and he's out of Yakima 3hrs away.

Both my girls (10 & 13) are asking me to come to class to teach April 19th to their classmates.

Offline Pitmaster

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2012, 08:57:58 PM »
I bought a Pedersoli Brown Bess from Dixie Gun Works a few months ago. I think it was on sale for $1050. When ordering supplies definitely check DGW and TOTW prices. I wanted a shooter so I went with spending the extra money. We had 2 of them at an AS and everyone took a shot and was excited.

I'm looking to add a bayonet. The question is go high quality or display? I'm saving an extra $100 for the high quality.
Pitmaster

Captain Noah Cook a Revolutionary War Veteran was my great, great, great,...great grandfather. Noah Cook enlisted in the militia on April 21, 1775 at age 18 upon learning of the Battles of Lexington and Concord that morning. His company left on that day for Concord arriving April 24, 1775.*

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Offline asminuteman

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2012, 09:18:39 PM »
I routinely see Pedersoli bessie's *used* for 700-800 on living history sites....folks that got into the gig, only to find out they are not as tough as they first thought.

I snoop around.....

TOW is the best to quickly find something used, (it wont be a pile of crap)...Good Solid Folks! that will help you, even if you don't know what your looking for....

Dixie is also a good recommodation
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." ~ Thomas Paine

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."~ Thomas Paine

I know of no way to judge the future, then by the past. -Thomas Paine

Offline SteelThunder

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2012, 08:52:58 AM »
My Pedersoli Bess was $750 used from a reenactor down in MS.  It was a little rough on first inspection but some basic disassembly and cleaning got it to looking "authentic".  It actually looks like it is a well-used but well-loved musket.  As pitmaster said above, we had his and mine both at an AS and nearly everyone in a 34 person shoot got to come up and give it a go.  Lots of smiles and smoke all around.





« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 10:35:59 AM by SteelThunder »
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Offline FiremanBob

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2012, 11:30:24 AM »
Since it's almost winter, I'm looking at buying a Jim Chambers kit. It's a big $$ saving over a finished piece, and would make a fun project.  www.flintlocks.com
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Offline Kaylee

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2012, 07:43:38 PM »
Cool!

For the money, I like the India muskets we got - but yeah, they're certainly not in the same realm as the Pedersoli I think. Here's ours:





IIRC,  they were around 350-400 after shipping.
I tried floating another group buy a while back, but there wasn't enough interest. I figured I might try again next March after all our wallets get a chance to cool from Christmas. :)


If you're willing to do your own work, these are pretty close to some I've seen on display from the Colonial side in local Battle Road museums -

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/GunKit.aspx/601/1/FRENCH-TULLE-FUSIL-DE-CHASSE-44-PARTS-LIST (note the front sight position on this one - that's REALLY common on the fowlers modded for bayonet use in the years leading up to 1775. The stock is a little French, but apparently that was a fad here once upon a time. At any rate, I've seen several with that shape in Eastern Mass, even if it isn't the most common. This one's my favorite of the fowlers I think. :) )

There's also these -
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/GunKit.aspx/600/1/ENGLISH-FOWLING-GUN-FLINT-PARTS-LIST
http://www.sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/k/K52%20Fusil%20Fin/K52%20Fusil%20Fin.htm
http://www.sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/k/K10%20Colonial%20Fowler/K10%20Colonial%20Fowler.htm

edit - here's the thread asminuteman's talking about -
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=26266.0


« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 07:49:50 PM by Kaylee »

Offline asminuteman

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2012, 10:24:35 PM »
Wohdoh nah Kaylee......

and I agree with you...

also re: Tulle.......Aye lassie! I concur

"previous owner no longer was in need"
I wonder how many of these came back as "war souvenirs"?
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." ~ Thomas Paine

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."~ Thomas Paine

I know of no way to judge the future, then by the past. -Thomas Paine

Offline Rizzin

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2012, 12:42:40 AM »
Kimber,

I picked up mine from

http://www.veteranarms.com/ReproductionMuzzleloadersandFlintlocks/1748-1st-Model-Brown-Bess.html

They also have a few other models that could show up as more likely in militia hands then regulars hands if you want to go that way. I got my bayonet and powder-horn from them but my cartridge box from track of the wolf.

Offline Camljr

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2012, 03:31:10 AM »
Check out this guy who is a flintlock gunsmith. and sells them too.

He is the best Flintlock gunsmith in the country, knows his stuff, and turnaraound time is 1-2 weeks... not months.

Just send your lock, he will harden the frizzen, time the lock, lighten the mainspring, if needed,  and ship it back for under $100.

http://www.flintlockrepair.com/flintlockmuskets1.html

He has done mine for years now. Last time I sent my Bess lock to him, It sparks every time... Same flint, over 100 hits. I knapped a couple times, but still going strong.

THIS GUY IS THE BEST!   



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Offline asminuteman

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2012, 03:40:36 PM »
*two thumbs up* for Camiljr

the gentleman who worked on his india pattern bessie, DID OUTSTANDING work!
I have seen it first hand.....we had us a real shootin annie in Castro!
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." ~ Thomas Paine

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."~ Thomas Paine

I know of no way to judge the future, then by the past. -Thomas Paine

Offline Spartan24

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2012, 02:05:28 AM »
I actually purchased a used Pedersoli Brown Bess for AS and other activities. Trouble is that I am not a black powder guy. I have the gun and that is it. What do I need to buy to shoot this thing? From cleaning kit to shooting supplies, I need answers. Here's what I have come up with:

To shoot it:
Flints
2FFg Black Powder
.715 Ball
.015 Patch
Priming Tool
Powder Measure

To maintain it:
Cleaning Patches
Cleaning Rod
Steel wool
WD-40
Bore Brush
Black Powder Solvent

Ami I headed in the right direction? Anything else I should add? Anything I missed?

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Offline Pitmaster

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2012, 06:58:45 AM »
Get a lb of 4F BP to use for priming. I would get a ball remover in case one gets stuck in the barrel. A vent pick and brush.

Hot water works to clean vs. a BP solvent. Although I personally use Ballistol for cleaning and protection.
A breech scraping plug is a tool I want but haven't purchased yet. There is also a little spring/screw shaped tool that can be used to retrieve patches if they don't come out.

Peruse Dixie Gun Works and Track of the Wolf. Both have lots of knickknacks.

None of my suggestions are necessarily absolute. If a ball gets stuck going down, your done shooting unless you can pull it out. Same with a patch. 
Pitmaster

Captain Noah Cook a Revolutionary War Veteran was my great, great, great,...great grandfather. Noah Cook enlisted in the militia on April 21, 1775 at age 18 upon learning of the Battles of Lexington and Concord that morning. His company left on that day for Concord arriving April 24, 1775.*

*History of Northampton, Massachusetts: from its settlement ..., Volume 2, Part 2, Chapter 25, Page 359


"The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home." Antonin Scalia

�The test of a democracy is not whether the people vote, but whether the people rule.� G.K. Chesterton

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Offline sgtmace

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2012, 07:50:46 AM »
Here's a cleaner for ya guys that beats the pants off anything I've ever tried before:
Equal parts of 1-Murphy's Oil Soap, 2- Hydrogen Peroxide, 3-91% Isopropyl Alcohol
Some down the barrel, swish it around and dump it out, then patch it-amazing results. Lube with bear fat or a Bore Butter type product of your choice.
sgtmace
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Offline Kimber Custom

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2012, 01:03:52 PM »
I really appreciate all the input. I won my auction on ebay last night for a wall hanger http://www.ebay.com/itm/261136263134?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2648

That will at least get me through the liberty seeds but the bug has clearly been planted for a working model. I'll start saving my spare change and see if this spring I can't pick up something that goes bang.

Offline slim

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2012, 02:01:40 PM »
I bought one of the India replicas through Kaylee's group buy (thanks again, Kaylee!) and I've been 100% satisfied with it for promotional use. You should see the heads turn when walking down the aisle at a show. "Wow! What is that thing?" Perfect 7th Stepping tool and it really drives the points home when telling the Strikes at AS events.

I've debated long and hard about getting it into working order and firing. However, I hold back because I want to be able to take it into schools and libraries, other public buildings, etc. A non-firing replica is generally allowed everywhere. Many places have a "no firearms" policy and even something like an unloaded musket is frowned upon. If it's just a movie prop, you're good to go.

But seeing those things shoot, and walking our attendees through the process of what it takes to fire just one shot - and then letting them shoot! - is definitely magic. I've been to several events where someone will bring one and put on a clinic. I'll never forget that my entire life. And shooting them too.... whoooo hoooo!

Guess the answer is buy two. One non-firing replica to take to no gun zones and one that works so folks at AS events can see it in action. Where's all that money come from to buy two? Feats of marksmanship!

Offline asminuteman

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2012, 04:06:06 PM »
I guess I'm the lucky one!

I walk into schools in California (yes- reread) with 2 pistols, 1-musket, 1 rifle, powder, knifes, tomahawks (all sharp)
NEVER been hassled.....and I openly start the discussion about these items.....(dozens of times over the years)
Heck, I've been photographed with US Senators inside of City center buildings (mayor office) with LIVE,LOADED muskets.......they didn't know, and it wasn't my fault.....they pulled me inside for the photos.....(details for another time)

From my experience, (your mileage may vary)
Use only black powder....forget pyrodex
4f is going to up the pressure in a bessie it wasn't designed for.....
2f is what it was made for, I use 3f for everything......grinding my own 8f for hunting (pan only, faster ignition due to more surface area...downside wicks moisture out of the air--change prime daily)

Use hot water and soap to clean..........oil after dry (sweet oil or its modern = olive oil)
Bear grease (good suggestion)...I use mink oil for everything

most folks shooting bessie (living historain crowd) use .69 cal RB, pillow ticking patch

tools need?.....rod, jag, turn screw..........Oh you want fancy!  add a scraper, bore brush
steel wool?...ok....."red brick dust" is correct....Ehhh

Good luck to you....say goodbye to your wife...for you have a new girl friend...

Your most humble and obedent servant
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6th Pennsylvania Regiment
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did I mention its an addiction?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 09:21:21 PM by asminuteman »
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." ~ Thomas Paine

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."~ Thomas Paine

I know of no way to judge the future, then by the past. -Thomas Paine

Offline FiremanBob

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2012, 02:39:03 PM »
I'm reviving (or threadjacking) this thread because I have a similar question. I want to find a good flintlock rifle in the Pennsylvania or Virginia style. I want it to be historically accurate for the Revolutionary War to demonstrate at AS shoots, and useful for deer in muzzleloader season.

I've been to a number of custom builder sites, but the budget is not unlimited. Earl Kathan's site is interesting but his arms are made in India and I want American-made. The best deal I've seen so far is the kit made by Jim Chambers in North Carolina - $655 with shipping. I'm comfortable doing the woodwork to complete a kit, as long as the inletting is well done.

Does anyone here have experience with Jim Chambers's work? What other recommendations does anyone have?

Thanks.
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Offline asminuteman

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Re: Need help choosing a musket
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2012, 10:26:55 PM »
Bezon,.....(shawnee hello)

Mr Chambers is par excellence!

others? TVM Tennesse Valley "muzzleloaders?" on FB for one.(good folks)
you can get kits from TOW track of the wolf...........

but if your thinking you can handle Jim's, you would be pleased....he now own the patents on the whole lock. "Silers" when those folks retired, and HE is the source for parts with all siler locks.......I own nothing but "silers" now, and have had no issues. Heck I broke a sear (tumbler is correct term) on a movie shoot, ordered, and he sent one off his, because he was out of stock, and we caught up at later date......

YMHOS
-k
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." ~ Thomas Paine

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."~ Thomas Paine

I know of no way to judge the future, then by the past. -Thomas Paine